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Wrestling regions in each country

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On a related subject, there seems to be a close connection or at least high correlation between, on the one hand right wing authoritarian governments (including dictatorships, repressive regimes, anti-democratic societies, theocracies and religious fanaticism, etc.) and, on the other hand, wrestling culture (including its relative popularity).  For example:

Russia

Iran

Turkey

Uzbekistan

Poland

India

Turkmenistan

and, increasingly, the United States  . . .  among numerous other top wrestling countries.

This would be an interesting subject to explore, especially the links between authoritarianism and wrestling culture in the US.

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11 hours ago, dmm53 said:

On a related subject, there seems to be a close connection or at least high correlation between, on the one hand right wing authoritarian governments (including dictatorships, repressive regimes, anti-democratic societies, theocracies and religious fanaticism, etc.) and, on the other hand, wrestling culture (including its relative popularity).  For example:

Russia

Iran

Turkey

Uzbekistan

Poland

India

Turkmenistan

and, increasingly, the United States  . . .  among numerous other top wrestling countries.

This would be an interesting subject to explore, especially the links between authoritarianism and wrestling culture in the US.

Really? Where is the right wing authoritarian government in the US?  Half of the legislative branch is trying to remove the chief executive and the fact that you were able to post that message on the internet and not receive a visit from the secret police is proof that there is no totalitarian regime here.

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15 hours ago, dmm53 said:

On a related subject, there seems to be a close connection or at least high correlation between, on the one hand right wing authoritarian governments (including dictatorships, repressive regimes, anti-democratic societies, theocracies and religious fanaticism, etc.) and, on the other hand, wrestling culture (including its relative popularity).  For example:

Russia

Iran

Turkey

Uzbekistan

Poland

India

Turkmenistan

and, increasingly, the United States  . . .  among numerous other top wrestling countries.

This would be an interesting subject to explore, especially the links between authoritarianism and wrestling culture in the US.

The fact you included India on that list tells me everything I need to know about your knowledge of the world. 

Edited by MDogg

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On 10/9/2019 at 12:26 PM, scribe said:

Americans tend to be coached into great situations. Caucus wrestlers are made to be great. 

On balance, the concentration of old (Eastern) European roots of eastern rust belt of the US are more predisposed physically for success. 

Really?  Then why is our world team a bunch of guys with English and Germanic names, three African Americans and one Irish-American?  There is one guy with an Eastern Euro name and Gwiz is from Duanesburg, NY not  a rust-belter.  So much for that theory.

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4 hours ago, AHamilton said:

Really?  Then why is our world team a bunch of guys with English and Germanic names, three African Americans and one Irish-American?  There is one guy with an Eastern Euro name and Gwiz is from Duanesburg, NY not  a rust-belter.  So much for that theory.

I’m working up some fairly loose theories. 

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18 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

you usually you have a pretty good sense of humor @scribe but your posts on this thread have been shamefully weak. might be time to retire. chin up though, you had a good run. 

At least I tried to explain why that area of Russia is so strong. It surely isn’t because pootie has bankrolled a regional training center in the area. 

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16 hours ago, scribe said:

One team that sniffs at third place does not represent our strongest on balance. 

Sniffed at 3rd place?  Didn't we get third?

And its makeup is not that different from our championship team.  

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On 10/10/2019 at 12:00 PM, MDogg said:

The fact you included India on that list tells me everything I need to know about your knowledge of the world. 

India has a pretty extreme right wing nationalist government under Modi.  I've travelled in India and lived on three different continents; speak multiple languages; have 2 BAs (including one in Government), an MA and a PhD; published multiple books; and am a tenured professor at a major university.   Want to compare knowledge of the world?  You are going to lose big time.

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On 10/10/2019 at 8:07 AM, AHamilton said:

Really? Where is the right wing authoritarian government in the US?  Half of the legislative branch is trying to remove the chief executive and the fact that you were able to post that message on the internet and not receive a visit from the secret police is proof that there is no totalitarian regime here.

Trump is a right wing authoritarian.  If you can't see that, you know nothing about politics. Nothing. Zero.  You have your head in the sand or your eyes on the State and Hate Propaganda known as Fox "News".

https://psmag.com/news/why-so-many-trump-supporters-are-ok-with-the-presidents-lies?fbclid=IwAR3JvM4PqO2n_wH3V-oqtou4L25kKnKS6Zd-CtRyBL1VbNvTbeLZDvQcSiQ

https://www.newsweek.com/harvard-political-science-professor-donald-trump-authoritarian-how-democracy-778425

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On 10/10/2019 at 8:07 AM, AHamilton said:

Really? Where is the right wing authoritarian government in the US?  Half of the legislative branch is trying to remove the chief executive and the fact that you were able to post that message on the internet and not receive a visit from the secret police is proof that there is no totalitarian regime here.

You conflate authoritarianism with totalitarianism.  They are not the same things.  Try educating yourself before you rant.

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45 minutes ago, dmm53 said:

India has a pretty extreme right wing nationalist government under Modi.  I've travelled in India and lived on three different continents; speak multiple languages; have 2 BAs (including one in Government), an MA and a PhD; published multiple books; and am a tenured professor at a major university.   Want to compare knowledge of the world?  You are going to lose big time.

This makes a lot of sense. I always knew I could spot an academic from a mile away - arguing based on credentials is a dead giveaway. 

And for the uninitiated: by “tenured professor at a major university” I think we’re dealing with a sociology professor at Penn State Schuylkill or a philosophy professor at University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown. 

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16 minutes ago, ThorsteinV said:

This makes a lot of sense. I always knew I could spot an academic from a mile away - arguing based on credentials is a dead giveaway. 

And for the uninitiated: by “tenured professor at a major university” I think we’re dealing with a sociology professor at Penn State Schuylkill or a philosophy professor at University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown. 

I made my claims earlier and no one addressed them.  Likely because the ranters here are incapable of thinking for themselves. Someone challenged my understanding  ofthe world so I offered a brief response.  (No one can truly "prove" their view of the world is accurate.) Now, you, like the other fools on this forum go ad hominem or at least hint in that direction.  Yes, credentials are decidedly not an argument but they offer a modicum of evidence  for believing someone. 

Don't half the people who write or rant here appeal to the credentials of wrestlers (e.g., championships or titles) or coaches (e.g., their record) as a kind of "argument" as to why they will win or lose? 

And, no you are wrong in your guess.  (Not that it matters, but I also have more than one title, i.e., professorship).  Why don't you and other  wrestling folks actually try to provide evidence for or against the (apparent) anxiety that many, many wrestling fans around the world are right wing supporters and often under-educated authoritarians?  Might you also be so yourself? 

It's clearly the case that almost all of the talking heads in the wrestling world have little to no journalism background or journalism degrees.  There is a good reason why right wingers don't survive or can't make it in the worlds of academics,  science, art, journalism, literature, and the like: they don't or won't or can't think critically.  They rely on the authority of others rather than questioning it, and they have not very fully trained or educated themselves, and usually have not exposed themselves widely to other cultures (often being xenophobic or worse).

Okay, Thorstein Veblen wannabe?  Might you actually be a critic of capitalism like Veblen? I doubt it or  at least doubt that you would be willing to admit it.

https://www.newsweek.com/harvard-political-science-professor-donald-trump-authoritarian-how-democracy-778425

 

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On 10/11/2019 at 7:51 PM, dmm53 said:

Trump is a right wing authoritarian.  If you can't see that, you know nothing about politics. Nothing. Zero.  You have your head in the sand or your eyes on the State and Hate Propaganda known as Fox "News".

https://psmag.com/news/why-so-many-trump-supporters-are-ok-with-the-presidents-lies?fbclid=IwAR3JvM4PqO2n_wH3V-oqtou4L25kKnKS6Zd-CtRyBL1VbNvTbeLZDvQcSiQ

https://www.newsweek.com/harvard-political-science-professor-donald-trump-authoritarian-how-democracy-778425

lol. great sources! So unbiased!

 

... and you can do whatever web searches you want, but until you provide some documatation of being a "tenured professor at a major university," you are no different than an internet tough guy.  Pics or it didn't happen!

Edited by AHamilton

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On 10/11/2019 at 8:33 PM, dmm53 said:

I made my claims earlier and no one addressed them.  Likely because the ranters here are incapable of thinking for themselves. Someone challenged my understanding  ofthe world so I offered a brief response.  (No one can truly "prove" their view of the world is accurate.) Now, you, like the other fools on this forum go ad hominem or at least hint in that direction.  Yes, credentials are decidedly not an argument but they offer a modicum of evidence  for believing someone. 

Don't half the people who write or rant here appeal to the credentials of wrestlers (e.g., championships or titles) or coaches (e.g., their record) as a kind of "argument" as to why they will win or lose? 

And, no you are wrong in your guess.  (Not that it matters, but I also have more than one title, i.e., professorship).  Why don't you and other  wrestling folks actually try to provide evidence for or against the (apparent) anxiety that many, many wrestling fans around the world are right wing supporters and often under-educated authoritarians?  Might you also be so yourself? 

It's clearly the case that almost all of the talking heads in the wrestling world have little to no journalism background or journalism degrees.  There is a good reason why right wingers don't survive or can't make it in the worlds of academics,  science, art, journalism, literature, and the like: they don't or won't or can't think critically.  They rely on the authority of others rather than questioning it, and they have not very fully trained or educated themselves, and usually have not exposed themselves widely to other cultures (often being xenophobic or worse).

Okay, Thorstein Veblen wannabe?  Might you actually be a critic of capitalism like Veblen? I doubt it or  at least doubt that you would be willing to admit it.

https://www.newsweek.com/harvard-political-science-professor-donald-trump-authoritarian-how-democracy-778425

 

M A G A!!

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I have done a little bit of research on the topic, and I wanted to share my point of view about why certain regions have superior wrestling to others

1. Someone brought up the issue of race and genetics .  I don't believe this is a factor.  Take Dagestan as an example, according to wiki Dagestan is very ethnically diverse and Russia's most heterogeneous republic, with the largest ethnicity constituting less than 30% of the population. Largest among the ethnicities are the Avar, Dargin, Kumyk, Lezgian, Laks, Azerbaijani, Tabasaran, and Chechen.[12] Ethnic Russians comprise about 3.6% of Dagestan's total population.  So, it's not race or genetics that makes Dagestan so good

2. Someone brought up form of government, arguing dictatorial governments are more likely to be good in wrestling.  I don't think that is the case, US has been a powerhouse in wrestling, and for the most part a very democratic country.   Canada was good at one point, and Northern European countries, most of which are very democratic, have traditionally excelled in Greco Roman wreslting

3. In my opinion, it comes down to culture and tradition.  Wrestling was a part of the Persian empire since ancient times see below from Wiki

Traditional Iranian wrestling (koshti) dates back to ancient Persia and was said to have been practiced by Rustam, mythological Iranian hero of the Shahnameh epic. While folk styles were practiced for sport by every ethnic group in various provinces, grappling for combat was considered the particular specialty of the zourkhāneh. The original purpose of these institutions was to train men as warriors and instill them with a sense of national pride in anticipation for the coming battles.[3] The Mithrāic design and rituals of these academies bear testament to its Parthian origin (132 BC - 226 AD). The zourkhaneh system of training is what is now known as varzesh-e bastani, and its particular form of wrestling was called koshti pahlevani, after the Parthian word pahlevan meaning hero.

When the Arabs invaded Persia around 637 CE, the zourkhānehs served as secret meeting places where knights would train and keep alive a spirit of solidarity and patriotism. Invaders repeatedly targeted the houses of strength to discourage rebels, but new ones would always be organized in a different location. Following the spread of Shia Islam, and particularly after the development of Sufism in the 8th century, varzesh-e pahlavani absorbed philosophical and spiritual components from it. Religious hymns were incorporated into training, and the first Shi'ite imam Ali was adopted as the zourkhāneh patron.

Dagestan, Azerbajan, Armenia, and Ossetia were all part of the Persian Empire, and have carried on the wrestling tradition.

In my opinion, while US is a young country, wrestling is part of the US tradition and culture.  If the US would get rid of the folkstyle, and implement freestyle instead in high school and colleges, US would be even more successful in international wrestling

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“Culture and tradition” is probably true historically for the US, with blue-collar or rural places like PA, OH, Iowa, Oklahoma, etc being strong.   But in more recent years due to high level coaching being more readily available, that seems to lead to some of the larger metro areas (typically in the suburbs) gerting stronger (NY, Philly, Chicago, etc).

 

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10 hours ago, irani said:

I have done a little bit of research on the topic, and I wanted to share my point of view about why certain regions have superior wrestling to others

1. Someone brought up the issue of race and genetics .  I don't believe this is a factor.  Take Dagestan as an example, according to wiki Dagestan is very ethnically diverse and Russia's most heterogeneous republic, with the largest ethnicity constituting less than 30% of the population. Largest among the ethnicities are the Avar, Dargin, Kumyk, Lezgian, Laks, Azerbaijani, Tabasaran, and Chechen.[12] Ethnic Russians comprise about 3.6% of Dagestan's total population.  So, it's not race or genetics that makes Dagestan so good

 

I disagree with your findings. With all other opportunities unrelated to natural attributes being maximized, certain traits relating to human population regions or areas of the world frequently dominate at the highest levels of sports. Pick a sport and you can usually find a particular set of people mostly dominate with only a few outliers.

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