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2 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

truth be told the changing rtcs for fresh perspectives hasn't worked for ramos, molinaro, garrett, ed ruth, jordan oliver, etc.   and most people thought it would - in actuality they got worse.

Sometimes you just have to blame yourself. It's like saying JB needs fresh perspectives because he lost in the last seconds against the best in the world in russia two years in a row ? please. nebraska and ohio state were good enough for them to win gold but aren't now ?

kyle hasn't stalled out - he's always lost matches to guys , won close , and never been a sadulaev who dominates and is levels above his competition. The margin for kyle is thinner - and always has been. The worlds loss was not really a surprise....maybe the problem was he was too focused on sadulaev and not his other matches ? This is kind of a grasping for answers type move instead of an inward look at himself. I just don't see the evidence that these moves work. Dudes that are confident in themselves don't make these moves. This is a sign for Kyle that he has lost confidence - in himself and by proxy his training. You would never see Yanni lose confidence in Grey. Or Burroughs lose confidence in manning, or derienger in smith. "put me at ease that I tried that option"  - mr snyder is going through a wrestling crises right now and I hope he finds answers , but the real answer is it is himself that needs to step up to the plate and perform better and focus better, not other factors. Chance he gets worse mentally especially if this move doesn't payoff like he thinks it does. 

me thinks sadulaev is really playing with his head. 

 

I disagree to an extent.  I definitely don't think Snyder is putting the blame on anyone, other than himself.  Leaving Ohio doesn't mean he is not looking inward. I don't think he looks at his situation at Ohio and says they can't develop me.  I don't think it is about Cox and I don't think it is about money. 

Gwiz is going to Germany for a couple months and so is ringer.  They are doing it to improve, and maybe for a little money. 

The guys it didn't work out for was for different reasons.  Ramos left because of the fallout at Iowa.  Not because he wanted a better training situation.  Molinaro had Zain to deal with.  Oliver went to Cornell and he did improve.  Unfortunately for him so did Yianni at the same club. Ruth had Taylor deal with in the same club.  Other than Oliver, the rest left because they were competing against the person in that room and they were the number 2. 

J,Den went to the OTC and got gold 2x.  Downey made final X which was a surprise to me.  Then he got his shot.  Graff had been trying for the team for years, then makes it this year after heading to Jersey.  

In the end though everyone has their own perapective and take on it.  

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2 hours ago, cjc007 said:

If he wins it's God's plan.

If he loses its because of his training environment.

He needs to look inside, deep introspection. Not blaming his training situation.

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To be fair I think he would say it was God’s plan either way.   But I don’t think God has a preference for where he trains.

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What if the NLWC is a better training environment? Wouldn't that make him better? Isn't that what USA wrestling fans should want for Kyle Snyder-to become better?
We want him to best the best Kyle Snyder. That's all.

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To be fair I think he would say it was God’s plan either way.   But I don’t think God has a preference for where he trains.
God doesn't care about wrestling.

My point is, when I win it's God's plan. When I lose its my training environment.



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4 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

God doesn't care about wrestling.

My point is, when I win it's God's plan. When I lose its my training environment.



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I’m glad you clarified, cause I just thought you were bitter. 

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10 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

God doesn't care about wrestling.

My point is, when I win it's God's plan. When I lose its my training environment.



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Says anyone who is hearing what they want to hear and seeing what they want to see. In case you haven’t been paying attention, he is doing the exact opposite of blaming anyone in any way for anything. 

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Is it the case that RTCs cannot ‘sign’ athletes? In other words: Contract for exclusive commitment, à la WWE?

Edited by jon

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15 hours ago, cjc007 said:

Varner isn't known as a technician, nor is Cassar.

Cael has his ankle pick, it's Snyder's go to move.

Tervel was a great coach and technician in his own right.

Good luck to Kyle. He will need it against Saduleav if he wants to wrestle another full match against the best wrestler in the world.

Hell, convert to Islam too.



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How do you know Varner isn't a good technician? Cael has more than just an ankle pick, just because that's his "go-to" move doesn't mean he doesn't know other techniques. And what evidence do you have that Tervel is a great technician? The guys he's in charge of aren't exactly lighting up the world.

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4 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

truth be told the changing rtcs for fresh perspectives hasn't worked for ramos, molinaro, garrett, ed ruth, jordan oliver, etc.   and most people thought it would - in actuality they got worse.

Sometimes you just have to blame yourself. It's like saying JB needs fresh perspectives because he lost in the last seconds against the best in the world in russia two years in a row ? please. nebraska and ohio state were good enough for them to win gold but aren't now ?

kyle hasn't stalled out - he's always lost matches to guys , won close , and never been a sadulaev who dominates and is levels above his competition. The margin for kyle is thinner - and always has been. The worlds loss was not really a surprise....maybe the problem was he was too focused on sadulaev and not his other matches ? This is kind of a grasping for answers type move instead of an inward look at himself. I just don't see the evidence that these moves work. Dudes that are confident in themselves don't make these moves. This is a sign for Kyle that he has lost confidence - in himself and by proxy his training. You would never see Yanni lose confidence in Grey. Or Burroughs lose confidence in manning, or derienger in smith. "put me at ease that I tried that option"  - mr snyder is going through a wrestling crises right now and I hope he finds answers , but the real answer is it is himself that needs to step up to the plate and perform better and focus better, not other factors. Chance he gets worse mentally especially if this move doesn't payoff like he thinks it does. 

me thinks sadulaev is really playing with his head. 

 

None of those guys you mentioned were really at Snyder's level, nor were they in the prime of their careers when they moved. 

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Strength - Varner is stronger than Snyder. Only guy probably stronger than Jden. 

Scrambling- Taylor and Nickal are better than Snyder

Athletic ability- Cassar is better than Snyder  

Coach- Cael 

All of these guys are Lt Heavies. Where on earth is Snyder going to get a better look and all the guys are near his size or bigger? Dagestan maybe. 

Edited by PRyan2012

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I am shocked. I really thought Snyder was a tOSU lifer. 

After the shock wore off, my first thought was that my hat goes off to Cael for creating an environment that can attract a guy on the very short list of wrestlers in the US GOAT conversation. At this point, you have to consider Penn State as the school with the strongest draw for elite talent ever. It is a ridiculously “unfair” edge (unfair in the best meaning possible), but one that was earned and not bestowed, so you can’t help but appreciate it. After Cassar and now Snyder voting with his feet, Cael is going to have upper weight recruiting on lockdown for a good while. 

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6 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

truth be told the changing rtcs for fresh perspectives hasn't worked for ramos, molinaro, garrett, ed ruth, jordan oliver, etc.   and most people thought it would - in actuality they got worse.

Sometimes you just have to blame yourself. It's like saying JB needs fresh perspectives because he lost in the last seconds against the best in the world in russia two years in a row ? please. nebraska and ohio state were good enough for them to win gold but aren't now ?

kyle hasn't stalled out - he's always lost matches to guys , won close , and never been a sadulaev who dominates and is levels above his competition. The margin for kyle is thinner - and always has been. The worlds loss was not really a surprise....maybe the problem was he was too focused on sadulaev and not his other matches ? This is kind of a grasping for answers type move instead of an inward look at himself. I just don't see the evidence that these moves work. Dudes that are confident in themselves don't make these moves. This is a sign for Kyle that he has lost confidence - in himself and by proxy his training. You would never see Yanni lose confidence in Grey. Or Burroughs lose confidence in manning, or derienger in smith. "put me at ease that I tried that option"  - mr snyder is going through a wrestling crises right now and I hope he finds answers , but the real answer is it is himself that needs to step up to the plate and perform better and focus better, not other factors. Chance he gets worse mentally especially if this move doesn't payoff like he thinks it does. 

me thinks sadulaev is really playing with his head. 

 

I agree with all your points on this thread. It’s the same stuff I’ve been saying to my boys.  You’ve been around the sport for a long time, I can tell. 

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13 hours ago, de4856 said:

Well I see it like this, (1) Kyle probably feels dissatisfied with his performance at the last two Worlds. So right there I believe he feels that he needs to do something different. (2) I also I think he wants to train with Nickal and Taylor, because both of those guys are great scramblers and funk masters, and he probably feels that will give him an advantage when he faces off with J’den. (3) Getting knowledge from Carl, Casey and Varner, has to be a good thing. He will also get to roll with Varner and Cassar and whoever else is there or they bring in for him. Kyle will probably go to the Yarygin so perhaps we will get a glimpse of what will be then. 

Wonder how much they will let Taylor roll with him given that he's coming off a significant injury.  I'm sure they don't want Snyder breaking him before OTT.

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As evidenced by the fact that all of PSU's individual titles over the last nine years have come via the ankle pick, you have a very good point here.
It's all Taylor had for Dake. That's why he lost to him every time they wrestled (post youth results).

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3 minutes ago, BigTimeFan said:

Isn’t Nickal planning on 97kg for Oly Trials? Does Nickal stay put if he is serious about that ?

That is the 2nd biggest question out there besides where Jden is going. I think he should go 189. I would like to see Jden go with Nickal at Nickals true weight. It is hard to think that he would bump up just to avoid wrestling Taylor. 

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3 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

It's all Taylor had for Dake. That's why he lost to him every time they wrestled (post youth results).

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Ahhhh that's why he lost to him.  Had nothing at all to do with how incredibly good Dake is. And as such, is the summary of the training available at NLWC.  Got it.

Just stop.  Have a great weekend!

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4 hours ago, jon said:

Is it the case that RTCs cannot ‘sign’ athletes? In other words: Contract for exclusive commitment, à la WWE?

this is what i'm really curious about - i have no clue what the inner workings of a resident athletes' commitment to said RTC is.  would love to hear if anyone has insight on this.

if there is no commitment - and being that Tom Ryan isn't afraid to speak his mind - I'm assuming we'll see some sort of a calling for change or at least revision.

like I said in my earlier post - I think we're moving towards a "professional era" in senior level wrestling and I truly believe it is a good thing. 

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21 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

Nickal is the odd man out at the NLWC, right?

To me this just reinforces the signals Bo has been throwing out there, maybe Caesar too, that they’re fine dipping their toes in freestyle until the Olympics but it’s just a quick pit stop before going MMA.

 

I agree that the new environment will be mutually beneficial for Snyder and PSU/NLWC heavies. With the new facilities and Logan Steiber’s training thing nearby, Tom Ryan could probably have attracted some eastern European wrestlers & coaches to come over and train with Kyle, give him some fresh looks.

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2 hours ago, BigTimeFan said:

Isn’t Nickal planning on 97kg for Oly Trials? Does Nickal stay put if he is serious about that ?

Yeah, it really leaves Nickal as the odd man out. He clearly didn't wrestle 86 kg just to avoid Taylor (who didn't have the courtesy to tell him he was out for the season) and now they bring in the top dog at the weight he's stated he wanted to go for the Olympic trials. I can understand Cael not turning Snyder away if he came asking, but if they courted him like Iowa did Dennis, Nickal should be pissed (if he really cares about the Olympics).

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Well as far as Nickal is concerned, I think he stays put, improves, and tries to make the team at 92, in 2021. But who knows maybe he makes a run at 86, I know that might be far fetched at the moment, but it’s not like that would be unprecedented, I mean I believe we have to be looking at a clash between Spencer Lee and Tommy Gilman at some point in the not to distant future. Also what Bo does or doesn’t do, may all hinge on what happens this spring between SnyderMan and Cox. I don’t know what DT’s plans are after 2020, maybe with a kid on the way he calls it a career or maybe takes a year off. But one thing for sure is that there seem to be a lot of moving parts here, and it might be a while before we know how this is all going to fall into place.

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Well, I like the points that Scramble makes about other wrestlers making changes and it working out for them. And when you read SnyderMan’s letter it sounds like that is exactly what he is thinking as well. 
A couple of years ago, I posted something sort of along these lines when Kyle lost his personal coach Lou Rosselli, to Oklahoma, and I wondered how this would affect him, and since SnyderMan continued winning Gold medals, I guess it didn’t all that much, ( but the truth is, how would I really know ). But to change gears a little, I also watched Kyle’s interview with Bader on Flowrestling this morning, and apparently this desire to move was being considered for some time with two different motivating factors, one to be near his wife, and the other to improve as a wrestler. But one thing that I heard him say in the interview, which made me think about, was the fact that Kyle said that he was considering going back to the OTC, and training with J’Den. Which opens lots of different avenues of thought there. Anyway, I hope that this will be a great move for Kyle, and I hope to see him win more Gold Medals. 

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As a buckeye, it hurts a bit, but as a fan of KS and USA wrestling, I am totally fine with the move.  What I like is that he is focused on 2020 and willing to do whatever it takes to make his best run.  There was definitely a loss of his technique when Roselli left for OU; I bet he'd love to follow Lou, but if he had an issue with partners at tOSU, he'd really have issues at OU.  I sure hope this works out for him, but I think Burroughs could have made this decision and chose to figure things out where he is at and up his game by adding in transition turns. KS has up until this year completely ignored top and only he can take responsibility for that.

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On 10/11/2019 at 8:30 AM, BobDole said:

How do you know Varner isn't a good technician? Cael has more than just an ankle pick, just because that's his "go-to" move doesn't mean he doesn't know other techniques. And what evidence do you have that Tervel is a great technician? The guys he's in charge of aren't exactly lighting up the world.

Tervel’s guys have now won 4 senior world championships, plus he took Kolin Moore who was at best a mid level recruit and helped him win junior bronze.

i think Tervel has proven himself as a coach  Certainly moreso in freestyle than Cael.

 

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