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9 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Except all their economy wrecking ideas. 

But you do realize that much of our economy is reliant on the consumer class right? If there is less and less equality, no re distribution of wealth,  no welfare, or strong social programs  than 1. The country as a whole will suffer and 2. We will essentially revert back to feudalism, where there is virtually no upward mobility and all wealth is inherited. There needs to be a balance.

Edited by russelscout

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11 minutes ago, russelscout said:

But you do realize that much of our economy is reliant on the consumer class right? If there is less and less equality, no re distribution of wealth,  no welfare, or strong social programs  than 1. The country as a whole will suffer and 2. We will essentially revert back to feudalism, where there is virtually no upward mobility and all wealth is inherited. There needs to be a balance.

I think your understanding of our free market economy and our tax laws is lacking. But before I even address that, there are a lot of reasons for income inequality. Additionally, taking from one group to give to another has limited effectiveness.

As for wealthy people, why do you Bernie lovers envy them? Why do you vilify them? In sum they employ millions while paying the vast super majority of our tax revenues. They pay the super majority of state and municipal taxes as well. 

They are limited in the options for their wealth. They can put it in a bank where it gets loaned out to the bank's depositors. They can invest it where it gets put to work employing people and creating goods and services that people need and desire. They can buy things. Things made by others keeping their jobs intact.

Finally, when they die their estates are taxed up to 40 percent. That tax rate number was once much higher. 

Why are you he'll bent to destroy the productive people? 

Let me give you just one example of why socialist ideas stink. The USA has 7 tax tiers for Federal Income Tax. If you make $12,000 and you file as a single filer you are barely into Tier 2 of 7. With a standard deduction you will basically pay no Federal tax. 

Argentina went communist/socialist almost 90 years ago. They too have a tiered tax system. They have 9 tiers. Wanna hazard a guess where you'd be in their system if you earn $12,000? They would consider you to be rich and you would be in their highest income tax tier. 

The same income that is considered low in a free country is considered high in an oppressed socialist country. 

Never mind their high provincial, social security, excise and VAT taxes that cripple their economy to the point they consistently default on their debt obligations. Thanks, but no thanks. That system, bernie's system, it stinks.

 

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11 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Additionally, taking from one group to give to another has limited effectiveness.

Thats pretty general. Education isnt effective? 

13 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

As for wealthy people, why do you Bernie lovers envy them? Why do you vilify them? In sum they employ millions while paying the vast super majority of our tax revenues. They pay the super majority of state and municipal taxes as well. 

Because trickle down economics has not worked, has never worked and only led to national debt. At what point are you willing to see that? In sum, facebook and google are huge companies but do not employ millions. Try 30,000 for facebook and 100k for google but they makes billions and uses your and my info for profit. You getting paid for that? Im not. Also they may employ many people but our lack of unions or any workers movement since the 70s has allowed wages to be squeezed to the point where demanding a livable wage is seen as extreme to people like you. Their taxes may pay for a lot but underfunding is still a major problem. I fail to see how less taxes can always be the answer here. 

 

24 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Why are you he'll bent to destroy the productive people? 

Let me give you just one example of why socialist ideas stink. The USA has 7 tax tiers for Federal Income Tax. If you make $12,000 and you file as a single filer you are barely into Tier 2 of 7. With a standard deduction you will basically pay no Federal tax. 

Argentina went communist/socialist almost 90 years ago. They too have a tiered tax system. They have 9 tiers. Wanna hazard a guess where you'd be in their system if you earn $12,000? They would consider you to be rich and you would be in their highest income tax tier. 

Great, but why dont you poke holes in successful social democracies. I am not advocating large scale central planning, or nationalizing all industries. It is either in bad faith or lack of understanding for you to claim any and all social programs equal communism. 

29 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Why are you he'll bent to destroy the productive people? 

This is not about the destruction of productive people. This is about allowing more than just the super rich to be productive. You know what holds back productive people? A cancer diagnosis that will bankrupt you or a education bill that will leave you struggling through your entire young adulthood(I actually dont believe in free education unless there is a complete overhall of the American system.) or kleptocratic practices allowing lobbiest to protect large corporate interests and creating barriers to entry for any competition or allowing corporations to do whatever they want at the expense of the greater good. Its said in America the best way to get a good return on your investment is to buy a politician.

40 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

I think your understanding of our free market economy and our tax laws is lacking

I know enough. I question yours if you believe that consumer spending isnt important to the American economy, but feel free to enlighten me.

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10 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Thats pretty general. Education isnt effective? 

Because trickle down economics has not worked, has never worked and only led to national debt. At what point are you willing to see that? In sum, facebook and google are huge companies but do not employ millions. Try 30,000 for facebook and 100k for google but they makes billions and uses your and my info for profit. You getting paid for that? Im not. Also they may employ many people but our lack of unions or any workers movement since the 70s has allowed wages to be squeezed to the point where demanding a livable wage is seen as extreme to people like you. Their taxes may pay for a lot but underfunding is still a major problem. I fail to see how less taxes can always be the answer here. 

 

Great, but why dont you poke holes in successful social democracies. I am not advocating large scale central planning, or nationalizing all industries. It is either in bad faith or lack of understanding for you to claim any and all social programs equal communism. 

This is not about the destruction of productive people. This is about allowing more than just the super rich to be productive. You know what holds back productive people? A cancer diagnosis that will bankrupt you or a education bill that will leave you struggling through your entire young adulthood(I actually dont believe in free education unless there is a complete overhall of the American system.) or kleptocratic practices allowing lobbiest to protect large corporate interests and creating barriers to entry for any competition or allowing corporations to do whatever they want at the expense of the greater good. Its said in America the best way to get a good return on your investment is to buy a politician.

I know enough. I question yours if you believe that consumer spending isnt important to the American economy, but feel free to enlighten me.

You seem to think you have all the answers already. What socialist countries should we model the USA economy after, in your expert view? 

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7 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

You seem to think you have all the answers already. What socialist countries should we model the USA economy after, in your expert view? 

This is such a childish response. Instead of just offering a rebuttal you try to discredit me as a know-it-all. You see Tbar, i am offering you my opinion. I am putting it out there for you to pick apart. Go for it, but try to be mature and not get offended when I dont agree with the points you have made.

Once again, you seem to think that by labeling a country "socialist" its all or nothing. The moment that we move to universal health care does not make it manadatory that we put everything under government control. So if I say I want a health care system like Germany, that doesnt mean that we become Germany on every issue. You see how you are relying on generalizations to make your arguement?

I just want my government to help handle problems for its people when the markets will not. Healthcare is clearly a problem. You are arguing that we should not fix problems and we should all be grateful because of socialism is bad. Protect the wealthy at all costs I guess.

Edited by russelscout

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50 minutes ago, russelscout said:

This is such a childish response. Instead of just offering a rebuttal you try to discredit me as a know-it-all. You see Tbar, i am offering you my opinion. I am putting it out there for you to pick apart. Go for it, but try to be mature and not get offended when I dont agree with the points you have made.

Once again, you seem to think that by labeling a country "socialist" its all or nothing. The moment that we move to universal health care does not make it manadatory that we put everything under government control. So if I say I want a health care system like Germany, that doesnt mean that we become Germany on every issue. You see how you are relying on generalizations to make your arguement?

I just want my government to help handle problems for its people when the markets will not. Healthcare is clearly a problem. You are arguing that we should not fix problems and we should all be grateful because of socialism is bad. Protect the wealthy at all costs I guess.

That is such a cop out response. If your utopian dream really existed anywhere on this planet and could be transferable to other places then you'd name that place. You can't.

You are just another pie in the sky dreamer with no solutions. Btw, Bernie had his chest pains and got surgery the next morning. In Canada the average wait time for that surgery is 6 months. 14 people have dropped dead in Ontario alone this year while waiting for the surgery Bernie got in less than 12 hours. Ask their surviving loved ones how nationalized health care worked out for them. 

 

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