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2 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

It’s not that they lost as much as not doing jack. I stand by my opinion. It isn’t hype. 

Let's try again:  you expected grey-shirt Foca to beat the D1 #10-ranked guy?  You expected grey-shirt Fernandes to beat the D1 #12-ranked guy?

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Just now, klehner said:

Let's try again:  you expected grey-shirt Foca to beat the D1 #10-ranked guy?  You expected grey-shirt Fernandes to beat the D1 #12-ranked guy?

I personally did, yes. I think very highly of them. But whether they did or not isn’t as important as how they did, which in my opinion was not very well. Get it now or do you need me to say it a third time?

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5 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

It’s not that they lost as much as not doing jack. I stand by my opinion. It isn’t hype. 
 

I still expect them to be very good in the future. But it was not a good showing. 

All three of Foca, Cardenas, and Fernandes are on the podium, with only Cardenas having been seeded (#7).

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A good night's sleep did wonders. 

Foca pinned a kid from Campbell iin the first period, with a tech in hand. App State next, dodging 3 seed Carey (Navy) who took an MFF after getting worked by Starocci.

Cardenas needs to work on the tank but outlasted Correnti 7-5. Correnti got terrible advice from his corner. Down 1, with under 30 seconds left and the ref already calling a gassed Cardenas for stalling on bottom, the Rutgers coaches demanded that he let Cardenas up to go for a takedown to go to OT (which Cardenas was able to run away from), instead of letting the ref (probably imo) ding Cardenas a third time for stalling to go to OT at 6-6. Nick Reenan is up next. 

Fernandes didn't do a lot on his feet against Ngati, but when the Mountaineer chose bottom. Fernandes got a pair of 4NF and rode the entire third period to win 10-0. He looks tiny for a heavy. Like Snyder-sized, but I'm not comparing him to Snyder in any other way.

All three finish on the podium at worst, so I'm not despairing for this group. That said, endurance definitely seems like an issue. All seemed spent by the end of the day yesterday - and Cardenas has had trouble keeping his energy up for a full 7 minutes, and tbh Cardenas has fallen off after the first period pretty consistently in the tournament and is having trouble on bottom.

Not a good tournament for Ramirez or Reiniche.

Edited by ugarte

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Just now, klehner said:

All three of Foca, Cardenas, and Fernandes are on the podium, with only Cardenas having been seeded (#7).

Who cares? This is not exactly the Scuffle or old. There’s talent here and there but the tournament overall is as weak as your argument. These are elite recruits. True blue chippers. In an era where true freshmen of similar caliber are coming in D1-ready and regularly AA, is it so crazy to think they could’ve wrestled better? Is it too much for you to drop your bias for a second and look around to see how similar guys have done straight out of HS in recent years? I expected them do win, indeed. I may be in the minority but I‘ve watched them a lot; it’s not like I just saw were pedigreed and therefore decided they should win automatically. Again, even in a losing effort, I thought I’d see more. Don’t be so defensive. 

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3 minutes ago, ugarte said:

All three finish on the podium at worst, so I'm not despairing for this group. That said, endurance definitely seems like an issue. All seemed spent by the end of the day yesterday - and Cardenas has had trouble keeping his energy up for a full 7 minutes, and tbh Cardenas has fallen off after the first period pretty consistently in the tournament and is having trouble on bottom.

Not a good tournament for Ramirez or Reiniche.

I wouldn’t worry too much about their shape. After all, this is a greyshirt year and they’re suppose to work on their technique, wrestling IQ, and strength (and for Fernandez, size). I’m pretty confident the shape will come when they’re doing the real Cornell practices. I agree on Ramirez in particular. Was not super high on him but I thought he was better than he showed. 

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5 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I personally did, yes. I think very highly of them. But whether they did or not isn’t as important as how they did, which in my opinion was not very well. Get it now or do you need me to say it a third time?

I think Foca having a bad third match against a returning NQ who gave Womack fits at NCAAs isn't terrible. Had a good bounce back morning. We'll see how the rest of the day goes - there are some tough matches on the horizon (not to look past the unseeded kid from App State).

Cardenas, as I said, comes out guns blazing but then seems content to sit on a lead. He got worked by Traxler badly. Seemed slow on the reattack and left himself vulnerable. If he repeats the performance from his Correnti match, Reenan will get bonus points.

Fernandes has looked very good, if small, imo. Gremmel was a talented kid who outweighed him by like 50. He has to figure out how to penetrate the defense of guys like that, but that's what this year is for. Another unseeded opponent - and he's looked good enough to beat anyone without a seed - before he faces another top 20ish guy. 

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Agree with all of that (especially Cardenas assessment). I am surprised I have been most impressed by Fernandes of all the FLWC guys so far this season. Wasn’t expecting that out of a small 18-year old heavy. I thought he’d be too overmatched in size and strength as a D1 heavy. I give him a lot of latitude in his performances given all this. It’s exceedingly rare to have a guy who could make 197 without too much trouble have any success against D1 heavies the year after HS. If all he does is lift and eat for a year, he’ll improve dramatically. 

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19 minutes ago, ugarte said:

Fernandes on deck Mat 1.

Rode hard, got a reversal from bottom. Wins 3-0. Came close to a couple of tilts but no cigar. NDSU almost got out a few times but also, no cigar. Fernandes is strong, especially given the age/size disadvantage he has every match.

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4 minutes ago, ugarte said:

Rode hard, got a reversal from bottom. Wins 3-0. Came close to a couple of tilts but no cigar. NDSU almost got out a few times but also, no cigar. Fernandes is strong, especially given the age/size disadvantage he has every match.

For a heavyweight, he seems to have an unorthodox riding style:  leg or legs in, riding high.  A couple of times in this tournament he appears to be too high and at risk to being rolled off, but he always managed to regain balance and use his leg ride to drive the guy back flat to the mat.

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2 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Then nobody has the answer. Unless you are in the program, how would you ever know? Hearsay doesn’t count. What I am 100% confident of is that Koll and staff are not having the influence they have during a regular year during grey shirts. It’s physically impossible to be in two places at one time. 

http://www.fingerlakesrtc.com/staff

Mike Grey listed as head freestyle coach, and Koll as "coach"

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4 minutes ago, red blades said:

That's a different entity than FLWC.  I know, all of thes acronyms get confusing!

But greyshirts can attend FL RTC right?   The original point I replied to was "they haven't spent any time with the staff," which I find a bit hard to believe.

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2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

But greyshirts can attend FL RTC right?   The original point I replied to was "they haven't spent any time with the staff," which I find a bit hard to believe.

OK. They have spent exactly 14 hours and 16 minutes with Koll and the Cornell staff in total. You win....

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5 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

OK. They have spent exactly 14 hours and 16 minutes with Koll and the Cornell staff in total. You win....

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or is there a time limit?   I don't see one - http://content.themat.com/CoachesCorner/RTC-criteria.pdf

So considering the RTC "Facility" is the Cornell facility, I'm sure the grayshirts spend plenty of time with the team/staff.   

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or is there a time limit?   I don't see one - http://content.themat.com/CoachesCorner/RTC-criteria.pdf

So considering the RTC "Facility" is the Cornell facility, I'm sure the grayshirts spend plenty of time with the team/staff.   

I’m being sarcastic and no, I am sure they do not spend “plenty of time” with the Cornell staff (that’s the job of the FLWC staff). Believe it or not, they really are two separate teams with limited interaction. https://www.fingerlakeswrestlingclub.com/

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47 minutes ago, klehner said:

For a heavyweight, he seems to have an unorthodox riding style:  leg or legs in, riding high.  A couple of times in this tournament he appears to be too high and at risk to being rolled off, but he always managed to regain balance and use his leg ride to drive the guy back flat to the mat.

Yup. It’s risky, but it is a great way to wear down bigger heavyweights and/or hold a lead. 
  
If he can avoid being reversed consistently, that ability is going to be crucial for him

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I always thought a good leg rider is most effective at heavyweight. Making slower, less nimble (relative to lighter weights) guys carry that much weight has to be a very effective way to tire opponents out and even turn them. I am reminded of how easily Mitch Clark used to turn big men and how dominant he was from top. 
 

I’m not a fan of the double grapevine from quad pot or tripod or standing though. Can’t see that working against better opponents. 

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41 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I’m being sarcastic and no, I am sure they do not spend “plenty of time” with the Cornell staff (that’s the job of the FLWC staff). Believe it or not, they really are two separate teams with limited interaction. https://www.fingerlakeswrestlingclub.com/

I do know they're 2 separate teams and did try to look up FLWC at first (the RTC has a much better website BTW).   I'm not saying the 2 clubs are necessarily "interacting," just thatI i imagine the kids likely attend practices for both.  I mean don't the guys that are actually on the Cornell roster often attend the RTC practices as well?

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45 minutes ago, ugarte said:

Fernandes gets #10 Thomas (Pitt) in the consi semi. Cardenas with #17 Laird (Rider). Foca facing Sherry, another Rider guy.

 

Cardenas tied 1-1 into OT.  Managed to get in on *two* doubles but finished out of bounds.  Lost to a late takedown.

Fernandes LBF in about a minute after getting taken down to a bad position and then turned.

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