Cox is the best

[headshuck 1,936]

A skunk is 0-7 and 1-11 where I grew up. What’s the next tier of skunking?

[mspart 146]

So I can remind you that things have changed.  2018 Taylor got gold at an Olympic weight class with a pin in the semis and a pin in the finals.  Dake took 2nd with a 9-7 wiin prelim, 10-0 win in semis and a loss 8-2 in the final.  I'd say that is a big difference.  Yes, Dake later won gold at WC.  

Just saying that things have changed since they last competitively wrestled each other. 

mspart

[scramble 136]

2 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

How many times has the new and improved David Taylor beat Kyle Dake in a fantasy matchup? :)

He has won every fantasy match :)

[scramble 136]

For those making a "dominant" scoring claim for the difference in DT and Dake, it is completely insignificant in this case. Dake does not often have big score separations.  He also doesn't often lose.  

I love watching DT, and maybe he does or doesn't beat Dake. Either way Olympic weight or non olympic weight, and point differences between other opponents are not a good way to gage it with them.

I also think if J'Den goes down he beats Taylor, but I don't think he beats Snyder.  I would root for J'Den but being objective I think it goes to Snyder.  

JB and Snyder I have for representing us.  The other spot will depend on where J'Drn goes if it is him or Taylor.  

My opinion

[scribe 1,616]

Dake can score as much as he chooses to.  He usually elects to ration his bursts of effort. Probably not a bad idea considering his string of injury the past few years. 

[headshuck 1,936]

“You don’t have to run faster than the bear to get away. You just have to run faster than the guy next to you.”

—Jim Butcher

[Ogalthorpe Haywood 195]

Cox has to win gold at an Olympic weight to be considered the best in the US imo. 

[Ogalthorpe Haywood 195]

Cox has to win gold at an Olympic weight to be considered the best in the US imo. 

[Ogalthorpe Haywood 195]

Cox has to win gold at an Olympic weight to be considered the best in the US imo. 

[Crotalus 227]

So I can remind you that things have changed.  2018 Taylor got gold at an Olympic weight class with a pin in the semis and a pin in the finals.  Dake took 2nd with a 9-7 wiin prelim, 10-0 win in semis and a loss 8-2 in the final.  I'd say that is a big difference.  Yes, Dake later won gold at WC.  
Just saying that things have changed since they last competitively wrestled each other. 
mspart

Ummmmm......... Dake won in 2018 with three techs and a 2-0 decision.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[BigTimeFan 845]

This is like arguing over which is the best fruit, apples or oranges.
 

Snyder has beaten world champs in Sadulaev and Gadisov. Cox is a two time world champ but it’s at a non Olympic weight and at the worlds in my view the best guy he beat was Karimi who isn’t a world champ. He beat Dake and Taylor but they are both naturally two and one weights (at least) below him. 

I want to know what weight Cox goes for the Oly trials. Whichever weight he goes he will have to beat a tough world champ domestically to make the team and then he will have to (most likely) beat an even tougher world champ to win. Should he do that, at any weight, I’d say he’s the best. 

[BigTimeFan 845]

42 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

Ummmmm......... Dake won in 2018 with three techs and a 2-0 decision.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

Yeah, what is he talking about. Dake is a two timer. 

[AZ_wrestling 51]

19 hours ago, Gantry said:

Dake is on record saying he weighed in quite a bit under 79kilos on day two of worlds last year. 

I'd be willing to bet that JB has a harder time getting down to 74 than Dake does. 

I’ve heard this said quite a lot. Source on it? 
 

I’d be willing to take that bet. Dake is simply bigger and his optimal weight is 79. Could you imagine Burroughs bumping up to 86 and taking on someone Cox. It’d be laughable. 

Edited October 19 by AZ_wrestling

[tbert 556]

79 was extremely weak class.  Top 3 at 74 would of walked thru 79.

Lets not forget  the reason Dake started wrestling at 79.  

Edited October 19 by tbert

[Plasmodium 1,050]

12 hours ago, mspart said:

So I can remind you that things have changed.  2018 Taylor got gold at an Olympic weight class with a pin in the semis and a pin in the finals.  Dake took 2nd with a 9-7 wiin prelim, 10-0 win in semis and a loss 8-2 in the final.  I'd say that is a big difference.  Yes, Dake later won gold at WC.  

Just saying that things have changed since they last competitively wrestled each other. 

mspart

Are you trolling me?  The more things change, the more they stay the same.  DT dominates everyone - unless he can't beat you.  Under that circumstance.....Well, the history is the history.  

[boconnell 1,352]

14 hours ago, mspart said:

FIFY.   A lot has changed.  Taylor has become dominant.  Taylor has pins, not a few.  I don't think Dake does.  Taylor was just incredible the last two years.  He showed dominance.  Not that Dake hasn't, but not as dominant.  It is hard for me to believe Dake could have beat Taylor last year unless he is so into his head that Taylor just can't win.  I really don't see that as the case. 

It would be interesting to see them go at it again.  But I don't think that will happen. 

mspart

Margin of victory is a terrible way to predict results.  It blows my mind that guys still think winning by a lot is a great indicator of how good people are at winning.

[Lurker 669]

6 hours ago, BigTimeFan said:

 

I want to know what weight Cox goes for the Oly trials. Whichever weight he goes he will have to beat a tough world champ domestically to make the team and then he will have to (most likely) beat an even tougher world champ to win. Should he do that, at any weight, I’d say he’s the best. 

Who is the even tougher world champ internationally at 86?

[Frank_Rizzo 307]

On 10/17/2019 at 5:45 PM, Plasmodium said:

Cox beat Dake well before he had transformed himself into that all that and a bag of chips.  Dont kid yourselves, he beats Dake all day. Also,  JB will continue his complete domination of Dake.

Jordan has had the second best career of any American in history, but he's wrestled in his last Olympics unless Dake is injured and unable to compete.  Burroughs is no lock to beat Imart either.  

[steamboat_charlie v2 653]

On 10/19/2019 at 4:22 PM, Lurker said:

Who is the even tougher world champ internationally at 86?

You could argue Yazdani is a tougher matchup for Cox than Taylor is, style-wise.  

You could also argue that Taylor isn't likely to be back to his peak that we saw in 2018 after the injury, in which case Yazdani might be tougher.  

I think both are pretty reasonable takes.  

[Plasmodium 1,050]

54 minutes ago, Frank_Rizzo said:

Jordan has had the second best career of any American in history, but he's wrestled in his last Olympics unless Dake is injured and unable to compete.  Burroughs is no lock to beat Imart either.  

Agreed there are no locks, including Dake over IMar.

[MrDream 49]

58 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

You could argue Yazdani is a tougher matchup for Cox than Taylor is, style-wise.  

You could also argue that Taylor isn't likely to be back to his peak that we saw in 2018 after the injury, in which case Yazdani might be tougher.  

I think both are pretty reasonable takes.  

Agreed on the Yazdani/Cox matchup. I think it's pretty evident that Taylor's pace kills Yazdani after 4ish minutes. 

The fact that people are correlating margin of victory to dominance is absolutely idiotic. Sadulaev beat Clayton Foster like 6-2....I'm sure other people beat Foster worse than that....and the most dominant wrestler in the World over the last 6 years has been Sadulaev. 

Looking back through....I'm guessing the people who are correlating margin of victory to dominance are just trolling....people can't honestly be that ignorant.  

[Lurker 669]

1 hour ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

You could argue Yazdani is a tougher matchup for Cox than Taylor is, style-wise.  

I see what you mean, and admittingly being somewhat of a jerk here, just thought the “even tougher international champ” when he’s 0-2 against the domestic world champ, was an interesting take. 

[steamboat_charlie v2 653]

14 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I see what you mean, and admittingly being somewhat of a jerk here, just thought the “even tougher international champ” when he’s 0-2 against the domestic world champ, was an interesting take. 

I know what you were getting at--and it wasn't me that said it in the first place. 

I was just playing devil's advocate as to what someone might be thinking with that assertion.  IMO Taylor can retain the "toughest 86kg in the world" title until he loses (of if he doesn't compete this year either).  

Edited October 23 by steamboat_charlie v2

[Lurker 669]

5 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

I know what you were getting at--and it wasn't me that said it in the first place. 

I was just playing devil's advocate as to what someone might be thinking with that assertion.  IMO Taylor can retain the "toughest 86kg in the world" title until he loses (of if he doesn't compete this year either).  

Yeah I knew it was another poster. One thing I would say in regard to your previous post is I very much do believe DT can be back at peak form after the injury. Sometimes coming off an injury you get that recharge. Dake for example, since he came back from his long layoff, most believe he has seriously jumped levels last couple years. 

[steamboat_charlie v2 653]

12 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Yeah I knew it was another poster. One thing I would say in regard to your previous post is I very much do believe DT can be back at peak form after the injury. Sometimes coming off an injury you get that recharge. Dake for example, since he came back from his long layoff, most believe he has seriously jumped levels last couple years. 

Depends on which Dake injury you're talking about.  I agree he's jumped levels in the past 3 years but I don't think he was at his best the past 3 months.  He did what he had to do, and he's just that tough, but the Dake we saw coming back from knee surgery in 2019 is not the same guy that teched Gadzhimagomedov in 2018.