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Is it possible to be a champion wrestler w/o lifting?

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3 minutes ago, russelscout said:

I clearly do not understand. I would consider a split of 3x10 as heavy lifting just as I would 5 x 5. What does a non-heavy lifting routine look like?

There are many, many, many routines.  For example, I  don't do any splits, I do rounds.  Many, many, many routines.

Edited by Lurker

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2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

There are many, many, many routines.  For example, I  don't do any splits, I do rounds.  Many, many, many routines.

There are, but are any of them grounded in actual research? In my experience, D1 athletes do not write their own lifting programs. Coaches do.

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Just now, russelscout said:

There are, but are any of them grounded in actual research? In my experience, D1 athletes do not write their own lifting programs. Coaches do.

I'm speaking as a coach, and yes grounded in research.

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5 minutes ago, russelscout said:

A strength coach or a sport coach? Big difference.

A sport coach with  degree in kinesiology and sport performance.

But this thread isn't about my background, it is about: is it possible to be a championship level wrestler without heavy lifting.  And the answer is absolutely yes, no question, it is possible.

Edited by Lurker

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4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

A sport coach with  degree in kinesiology and sport performance.

But this thread isn't about my background, it is about: is it possible to be a championship level wrestler without heavy lifting.  And the answer is absolutely yes, no question, it is possible.

I have doubts and I would like to hear someone who actually knows of a champ not just based off of conjecture.

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2 minutes ago, russelscout said:

I have doubts and I would like to hear someone who actually knows of a champ not just based off of conjecture.

You are welcome to your doubts.  I'm not sure what conjecture you are talking about, but I am sure it doesn't really matter.

 

Edited by Lurker

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9 minutes ago, Lurker said:

You are welcome to your doubts.  I'm not sure what conjecture you are talking about, but I am sure it doesn't really matter.

 

And you are welcome to your assumptions, but what I am saying is that people just bring up John Smith because he is long and lean, not because they actually know he does not lift. Would you agree? 

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9 minutes ago, russelscout said:

And you are welcome to your assumptions, but what I am saying is that people just bring up John Smith because he is long and lean, not because they actually know he does not lift. Would you agree? 

No, because John Smith himself has said he didn't really do heavy lifting.

Why are they my "assumptions", because  you didn't like the answers? 

 

Edited by Lurker

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10 minutes ago, Lurker said:

No, because John Smith himself has said he didn't really do heavy lifting.

Why are they my "assumptions", because  you didn't like the answers? 

Again, the question is is it possible to become a champion level wrestler without heavy lifting. Is your argument that it is impossible?

Another poster on here just referenced an article that said he lifted three times a week. Unless either of you can show some sources, Im not going to just take your word for it over his. 

My argument is that champion level wrestlers lift weights. The idea of non heavy lifting does make sense to me. Ok so do they lift less weight, but for more reps? Well that is still an increase in volume. If that is your definition,  that its light weights and more reps, well thats technically lighter weight, but its still a wrestler taking time in his training schedule to use weights to supplement their wrestling and build strength and stability. Ya, its not power lifting by any means, but it is lifting. Wrestlers lift. Hell, at most colleges runners, gymnasts, basketball players, the tennis team, all athletes lift. This is my experience. Like I said, I would be shocked if the best wrestlers in the modern era were not lifting weights. 

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8 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Another poster on here just referenced an article that said he lifted three times a week. Unless either of you can show some sources, Im not going to just take your word for it over his. 

My argument is that champion level wrestlers lift weights. The idea of non heavy lifting does make sense to me. Ok so do they lift less weight, but for more reps? Well that is still an increase in volume. If that is your definition,  that its light weights and more reps, well thats technically lighter weight, but its still a wrestler taking time in his training schedule to use weights to supplement their wrestling and build strength and stability. Ya, its not power lifting by any means, but it is lifting. Wrestlers lift. Hell, at most colleges runners, gymnasts, basketball players, the tennis team, all athletes lift. This is my experience. Like I said, I would be shocked if the best wrestlers in the modern era were not lifting weights. 

As I said before, the original question was "heavy lifting".   Here I will copy and paste for you to read again.  "Meaning once you step into college you don't do heavy lifting."   I guess anyone can interpret the word to whatever meaning they want, especially if they just like to argue. 

 

Edited by Lurker

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8 minutes ago, Lurker said:

As I said before, the original question was "heavy lifting".  I guess anyone can interpret the word to whatever meaning they want.

So whats the line? I consider throwing 200 lbs on a bar heavy lifting. Is that the line for you? My wife would consider the bar heavy lifting. Lifting weights is lifting weights. You spend time in the weight room, you lift weights. Its not hard to understand.

 

9 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I'll ask again since you failed to  answer, how do you come up with me only having assumptions?

I guess I assumed you assumed. *gasp* I will continue doing that until you give me anything that that would show that you know John Smith didn't lift weights. 

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2 minutes ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

Assuming this article is accurate, Jake Varner did not lift weights.

http://blog.trainheroic.com/fact-or-fiction-wrestlers-jake-varner/

So if you are a physical freak, you don’t need to lift. Thanks. Mortals usually need to do some form of resistance training though. Jake is like the wrestling version of Bo Jackson who didn’t lift until he got to college. 

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22 minutes ago, Lurker said:

So that's now a third olympic champion quoted in just this thread that didn't engage in "heavy lifting".  I guess it is possible.

Show me one quote. I will wait and I'll be here all day. Also there is very little context here. Is that during his high school career, college or his entire career? I can't believe Cael and KJ were just cool with him skipping mandatory team lifts.

Edited by russelscout

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https://strongerwrestler.com/why-strength-train/

An actual quote from Cael Sanderson:

“I was more concerned about hustle and technique as a competitor but strength is icing on the cake.  I did lift weights.  The year I took second in the world I learned that I had to get stronger.  I felt that the top guys were much stronger than me.  I did a lot of cleans and thought about lifting in wrestling terms.  In wrestling you have to explode, and push and pull. So I did the exercises that made me a stronger wrestler.” 

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3 minutes ago, russelscout said:

So whats the line? I consider throwing 200 lbs on a bar heavy lifting. Is that the line for you? My wife would consider the bar heavy lifting. Lifting weights is lifting weights. You spend time in the weight room, you lift weights. Its not hard to understand.

 

I guess I assumed you assumed. *gasp* I will continue doing that until you give me anything that that would show that you know John Smith didn't lift weights. 

Obviously, as you pointed out, what is considered "heavy" would change from person to person, at each individual is at a different level.  You are right, its not hard to understand. You keep putting your stance at not lifting weights. That was not the original question.  If you would like to start a new topic and change the original question, you are welcome to.  I thought we were talking about is it possible to become a champion level athlete without heavy lifting once you hit college.  Would you like to start a new discussion on whether or not is possible John Smith did not lift weights at all.

As far as continuing to assume, that's fine with me, not trying to persuade you. Whether or not you want to argue does not change facts.  I'm speaking from years of study and application, so I'm confident in my position that yes it is possible to become a champion level wrestler without heavy lifting.  In fact....its been proven.

Good day sir.

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15 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Obviously, as you pointed out, what is considered "heavy" would change from person to person, at each individual is at a different level.  You are right, its not hard to understand. You keep putting your stance at not lifting weights. That was not the original question.  If you would like to start a new topic and change the original question, you are welcome to.  I thought we were talking about is it possible to become a champion level athlete without heavy lifting once you hit college.  Would you like to start a new discussion on whether or not is possible John Smith did not lift weights at all.

As far as continuing to assume, that's fine with me, not trying to persuade you. Whether or not you want to argue does not change facts.  I'm speaking from years of study and application, so I'm confident in my position that yes it is possible to become a champion level wrestler without heavy lifting.  In fact....its been proven.

Good day sir.

So whats the line? If John Smith threw 135 on the bar then he didn't lift, but then if he throws some 2.5s to put it to 140 then he was clearly lifting? The "he may lift but he doesn't lift heavy" is a stupid argument to make.

If you are so stuck on the criteria of the debate then it was set at 45 lbs. To which I would say all of the athletes lifted more than at one time or another. 

Edited by russelscout

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8 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Oh great, proof. Do share!

How about I just say you win, congratulations.  I don't really have any more information on the original question to add than I have already stated.

Edited by Lurker

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3 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Well thats no fun, but I will take it I guess

What is and what isn't fun is in the eyes of the beholder.

(No, that's not an open invitation for you to start arguing what I consider fun)

Edited by Lurker

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10 minutes ago, Lurker said:

What is and what isn't fun is in the eyes of the beholder.

(No, that's not an open invitation for you to start arguing what I consider fun)

Then why would you bring it up? You want to live in a world where you can make claims or in this case, take little jabs and not have to face any kind of rebuttal or criticism for doing so. 

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36 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Then why would you bring it up? You want to live in a world where you can make claims or in this case, take little jabs and not have to face any kind of rebuttal or criticism for doing so. 

Okay, thank you.

Edited by Lurker

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