U23 Discussion

[Housebuye 1,903]

3 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

Which part is confusing?  Taylor pinned and then beat Yaz 11-6.

Yeah their second match was much more competitive than you are making it sound. 
  
 

[Housebuye 1,903]

1 minute ago, uncle bernard said:

And was getting handled in both matches before he gassed Yazdani. Certainly didn't handle him "with ease" as you put it. He was VERY close to getting DQ'd for passivity in the first match. 

Bo does not wrestle the same type of pace that DT does. You can't just translate scores. Also no evidence Bo would do any better against a healthy DT than Yazdani.

Exactly

[Mphillips 388]

10 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

We don’t send our our best to U23. We don’t take it seriously. Team results for U23x at least for USA, don’t mean anything. 
  
the majority of our team isn’t even top 10 in the US. 

Liked this from another site.  Thanks Yank.

QUOTE:

So I tried to make the best possible U23 team with only guys out of college or on redshirt (I cheated with Kerkvliet). Here's what I came up with in a couple hours looking:

57kg- Daton Fix
61kg- Vito Arujau
65kg- Yianni Diakomihalis
70kg- Alec Pantaleo
74kg- Logan Massa
79kg- Mekhi Lewis
86kg- Max Dean
92kg- Myles Martin
97kg- Bo Nickal
125kg-Greg Kerkvliet

This lineup has 8/10 guys who have made Cadet/Junior teams, 10/10 have placed at NCAAs, 7/10 top 3, 4/10 NCAA champs. Only 4/10 of these guys ended up on the team, with Vito winning Junior silver and Daton making the senior team.

Here's the best lineup I made not counting redshirts/availability

57kg: Spencer Lee
61kg: Daton Fix
65kg- Yianni Diakomihalis
70kg- Ryan Deakin
74kg- Mekhi Lewis
79kg- Mark Hall
86kg- Zahid Valencia
92kg- Myles Martin
97kg- Bo Nickal
125kg- Gable Steveson

This lineup has 10/10 previous world teams, 10/10 placed at NCAAs, 9/10 top 3, and 7/10 NCAA champs. That's the type of lineup Team USA could put out this year, and the type of lineup that would win 5+ medals. Only one guy there tried to make a U23 team, and that one guy is in the finals.

[ConnorsDad 396]

2 hours ago, Mokoma said:

I think Bo would have won world gold at 86 or 92, if he were on the team.

He might have won @ 92, if you're talking seniors, even though he's still second-best in America, but I don't think he would have beaten Yazdani at 86. People don't seem to realize just how weak 79 kilos and 92 were at this year's world's. I'm not saying Dake and J'den aren't great but those weight classes were as soft as Cinnabon's topics!

[Housebuye 1,903]

4 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

Who all was noticeably missing?  Not disagreeing just don’t know our age level guys freestyle experience.

57 kg could be Spencer Lee, Daton Fix, Nick Suriano, Vito Arujao and about 10 other guys ahead of Townsell

61 Any of the 57s, plus RBY and a couple others

65 - Yianni, but Eierman is a solid choice

70 - Hidlay, We also have a junior world silver here who made FinalX 

74 - Nolf, few others 

79 - Hall, Zahid, few others

86 - same as 79

92 - Bo is the best choice

97 - this is the first year Snyder isn’t eligible. Maybe Warner, Moore or Elam. All have age level medals

125 - Gable

[Housebuye 1,903]

Just now, Mphillips said:

Liked this from another site.  Thanks Yank.

QUOTE:

So I tried to make the best possible U23 team with only guys out of college or on redshirt (I cheated with Kerkvliet). Here's what I came up with in a couple hours looking:

57kg- Daton Fix
61kg- Vito Arujau
65kg- Yianni Diakomihalis
70kg- Alec Pantaleo
74kg- Logan Massa
79kg- Mekhi Lewis
86kg- Max Dean
92kg- Myles Martin
97kg- Bo Nickal
125kg-Greg Kerkvliet

This lineup has 8/10 guys who have made Cadet/Junior teams, 10/10 have placed at NCAAs, 7/10 top 3, 4/10 NCAA champs. Only 4/10 of these guys ended up on the team, with Vito winning Junior silver and Daton making the senior team.

Here's the best lineup I made not counting redshirts/availability

57kg: Spencer Lee
61kg: Daton Fix
65kg- Yianni Diakomihalis
70kg- Ryan Deakin
74kg- Mekhi Lewis
79kg- Mark Hall
86kg- Zahid Valencia
92kg- Myles Martin
97kg- Bo Nickal
125kg- Gable Steveson

This lineup has 10/10 previous world teams, 10/10 placed at NCAAs, 9/10 top 3, and 7/10 NCAA champs. That's the type of lineup Team USA could put out this year, and the type of lineup that would win 5+ medals. Only one guy there tried to make a U23 team, and that one guy is in the finals.

Really good stuff 

[Mokoma 87]

7 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Liked this from another site.  Thanks Yank.

QUOTE:

So I tried to make the best possible U23 team with only guys out of college or on redshirt (I cheated with Kerkvliet). Here's what I came up with in a couple hours looking:

57kg- Daton Fix
61kg- Vito Arujau
65kg- Yianni Diakomihalis
70kg- Alec Pantaleo
74kg- Logan Massa
79kg- Mekhi Lewis
86kg- Max Dean
92kg- Myles Martin
97kg- Bo Nickal
125kg-Greg Kerkvliet

This lineup has 8/10 guys who have made Cadet/Junior teams, 10/10 have placed at NCAAs, 7/10 top 3, 4/10 NCAA champs. Only 4/10 of these guys ended up on the team, with Vito winning Junior silver and Daton making the senior team.

Here's the best lineup I made not counting redshirts/availability

57kg: Spencer Lee
61kg: Daton Fix
65kg- Yianni Diakomihalis
70kg- Ryan Deakin
74kg- Mekhi Lewis
79kg- Mark Hall
86kg- Zahid Valencia
92kg- Myles Martin
97kg- Bo Nickal
125kg- Gable Steveson

This lineup has 10/10 previous world teams, 10/10 placed at NCAAs, 9/10 top 3, and 7/10 NCAA champs. That's the type of lineup Team USA could put out this year, and the type of lineup that would win 5+ medals. Only one guy there tried to make a U23 team, and that one guy is in the finals.

In the finals?  Pretty sure he won, and easily.

[Mokoma 87]

9 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

57 kg could be Spencer Lee, Daton Fix, Nick Suriano, Vito Arujao and about 10 other guys ahead of Townsell

61 Any of the 57s, plus RBY and a couple others

65 - Yianni, but Eierman is a solid choice

70 - Hidlay, We also have a junior world silver here who made FinalX 

74 - Nolf, few others 

79 - Hall, Zahid, few others

86 - same as 79

92 - Bo is the best choice

97 - this is the first year Snyder isn’t eligible. Maybe Warner, Moore or Elam. All have age level medals

125 - Gable

Wow yeah I wonder why none of those guys wanted to compete?

[TBar1977 3,450]

Looking at these posts, USA sends its best they win. Hands down they win.

[AZ_wrestling 87]

10 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Liked this from another site.  Thanks Yank.

QUOTE:

So I tried to make the best possible U23 team with only guys out of college or on redshirt (I cheated with Kerkvliet). Here's what I came up with in a couple hours looking:

57kg- Daton Fix
61kg- Vito Arujau
65kg- Yianni Diakomihalis
70kg- Alec Pantaleo
74kg- Logan Massa
79kg- Mekhi Lewis
86kg- Max Dean
92kg- Myles Martin
97kg- Bo Nickal
125kg-Greg Kerkvliet

This lineup has 8/10 guys who have made Cadet/Junior teams, 10/10 have placed at NCAAs, 7/10 top 3, 4/10 NCAA champs. Only 4/10 of these guys ended up on the team, with Vito winning Junior silver and Daton making the senior team.

Here's the best lineup I made not counting redshirts/availability

57kg: Spencer Lee
61kg: Daton Fix
65kg- Yianni Diakomihalis
70kg- Ryan Deakin
74kg- Mekhi Lewis
79kg- Mark Hall
86kg- Zahid Valencia
92kg- Myles Martin
97kg- Bo Nickal
125kg- Gable Steveson

This lineup has 10/10 previous world teams, 10/10 placed at NCAAs, 9/10 top 3, and 7/10 NCAA champs. That's the type of lineup Team USA could put out this year, and the type of lineup that would win 5+ medals. Only one guy there tried to make a U23 team, and that one guy is in the finals.

Great list. I actually think Carr at 70 and Nolf at 74 would be best but regardless if we sent that team they would handily win the team title imo.

[Mphillips 388]

6 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

In the finals?  Pretty sure he won, and easily.

This was posted before he was in the finals.

[treep2000 868]

After yet another year of U23's (the better version of Universities), I think more of our guys will jump on the bandwagon.  Not on World Team and of age, go U23's and get to compete against Top 10 world talent.  It's a pretty good story and is very real. 

[ConnorsDad 396]

2 hours ago, Mokoma said:

I do, Taylor has handled him with ease.  I also take Bo over Taylor, if you want to ask that next.

Taylor has NEVER handled Yazdani with ease. That is a fact. It's an opinion. There's nothing he is done that would lead anybody to think that he's better than David Taylor in freestyle at 86 kilos right now.

[NJDan 458]

23 minutes ago, AZ_wrestling said:

Great list. I actually think Carr at 70 and Nolf at 74 would be best but regardless if we sent that team they would handily win the team title imo.

How do you know other countries send their best? I dunno, but I suspect that u23 is second fiddle to juniors (and certainly to seniors) everywhere. 

[ConnorsDad 396]

I could understand if Bo was close to 97 in weight right now. But somebody said he weighed 87.2 kg in Budapest. Why would he attempt to go to 97 next year instead of 86? If nothing else physically he's going to be giving away a lot of strength and just because he puts that much weight on in one year doesn't mean his conditioning is going to be there. Remember how long it took both Yazdani and Taylor to get to where they were comfortable at that weight? I don't get it. Plus he's going to have to wrestle a member of nlwc at either weight. I realize he's probably closer to Taylor but if he's going to do what's best for him I think it's at 86 not 97.

[uncle bernard 104]

51 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Yeah their second match was much more competitive than you are making it sound. 
  
 

The first match was way more competitive than he made it sound too! lol

[ConnorsDad 396]

56 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

Which part is confusing?  Taylor pinned and then beat Yaz 11-6.

You're the one that said he handled him with ease and in neither of those matches was anything easy. He was way behind in both matches so there is no handling with ease there at all!

[ConnorsDad 396]

42 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Looking at these posts, USA sends its best they win. Hands down they win.

That's assuming that Russia does not send their best under-23 team which could possibly contain some senior medalists. But you're right the team listed above would certainly win what's there this year.

[nhs67 474]

14 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

I could understand if Bo was close to 97 in weight right now. But somebody said he weighed 87.2 kg in Budapest. Why would he attempt to go to 97 next year instead of 86? If nothing else physically he's going to be giving away a lot of strength and just because he puts that much weight on in one year doesn't mean his conditioning is going to be there. Remember how long it took both Yazdani and Taylor to get to where they were comfortable at that weight? I don't get it. Plus he's going to have to wrestle a member of nlwc at either weight. I realize he's probably closer to Taylor but if he's going to do what's best for him I think it's at 86 not 97.

I don't believe anyone says 87.2 in Budapest.

I said what was reported for Final X. He weighed in at 87.2 then.

[ConnorsDad 396]

Just now, nhs67 said:

I don't believe anyone says 87.2 in Budapest.

I said what was reported for Final X. He weighed in at 87.2 then.

My bad. Still a lot of weight to be putting on.

[PSUMike 428]

1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

We don’t send our our best to U23. We don’t take it seriously. Team results for U23x at least for USA, don’t mean anything. 
  
the majority of our team isn’t even top 10 in the US. 

I follow the sport pretty damn closely. It's pretty rare for me to not even recognize someone's name. If they are a decent wrestler, I can almost always tell you the team and a ballpark on their weight. I have no idea who our 79kg rep is. 

[Mphillips 388]

1 minute ago, PSUMike said:

I follow the sport pretty damn closely. It's pretty rare for me to not even recognize someone's name. If they are a decent wrestler, I can almost always tell you the team and a ballpark on their weight. I have no idea who our 79kg rep is. 

 

[Eagle26 334]

Wow congrats to Bo, super impressive performance! It sounds like the Bo hype is getting a little carried away though. Ironically, it seems TBar is the one keeping it perspective :) There’s absolutely no evidence to suggest he is on Taylor or Yazdani’s level. He’s great and he may get there, but I don’t think he’s there yet. 

My point earlier was to suggest that I agree it’s very hard to believe DT didn’t tell Bo that he would be out for the trials, but I just can’t fathom that he weighs 87 kg and would decide not to go 86 if he knew DT wasn’t there. That’s harder to believe than DT not telling he wouldn’t be back in time for trial. Obviously, Taylor knew he was this good, so he may have been concerned he would win a medal at 86 (I think he would have, just not gold). Pure speculation, but I just don’t see another option that makes sense 

[nhs67 474]

1 hour ago, ConnorsDad said:

That's assuming that Russia does not send their best under-23 team which could possibly contain some senior medalists. But you're right the team listed above would certainly win what's there this year.

I agree entirely. His best bud is Cassar, so maybe we see a beefed up Nickal.

[The Genius 197]

People saying Bo would beat Yazdani already... Yikes.