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We finish 1-10 in Greco with not even a guy in the repechage. What a waste of time and resources. I would really like to see us succeed at all 3 styles, but we just keep getting wake up call after wake up call that something has to be drastically, drastically different with our development of Greco.

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We finish 1-10 in Greco with not even a guy in the repechage. What a waste of time and resources. I would really like to see us succeed at all 3 styles, but we just keep getting wake up call after wake up call that something has to be drastically, drastically different with our development of Greco.
Yeah I've never been a "scrap the program" guy... but the product we put out is absolutely shameful year in and out.

I joked in another group (I think it was Lamont that got the spot for somebody who couldnt go)... i said just raffle his trip off to the fans at 10 bucks a ticket.... you would save the team some money and it wouldnt change the overall result as far as medals go ...

Real talk though at the end of the day wrestling is the same world wide, tall, short, black, white... it's 2 bodies out there and there are only so many techniques.... i don't expect us to have astonishing depth, but with the amount of guys training year round, is even 4 competitive athletes too much to ask for?

Dont start with that "our best guys do freestyle" crap.... that goes back to our insistence on wrestling Folkstyle as youth so everyone is used to leg attacks (doesnt mean folkstyle is good, just means the majority of our athletes are guided away from greco at an early age)...

Even with that being the case. Its amazing we cant even create 2 consistently competitive athletes... its f'ning baffeling.
Eh well, pay coaches and athletes, and repeat.... the pattern...

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2 hours ago, spladle08 said:

Yeah I've never been a "scrap the program" guy... but the product we put out is absolutely shameful year in and out.

I joked in another group (I think it was Lamont that got the spot for somebody who couldnt go)... i said just raffle his trip off to the fans at 10 bucks a ticket.... you would save the team some money and it wouldnt change the overall result as far as medals go ...

Real talk though at the end of the day wrestling is the same world wide, tall, short, black, white... it's 2 bodies out there and there are only so many techniques.... i don't expect us to have astonishing depth, but with the amount of guys training year round, is even 4 competitive athletes too much to ask for?

Dont start with that "our best guys do freestyle" crap.... that goes back to our insistence on wrestling Folkstyle as youth so everyone is used to leg attacks (doesnt mean folkstyle is good, just means the majority of our athletes are guided away from greco at an early age)...

Even with that being the case. Its amazing we cant even create 2 consistently competitive athletes... its f'ning baffeling.
Eh well, pay coaches and athletes, and repeat.... the pattern...

And we won a senior level world title this century!!!

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Although we did see success with Bo, Kilty, and Kayla, I was hopeful that we would see more. I am not sure why we performed the way we did, but hopefully USA Wrestling and everyone else involved can find things to learn from and to build on. And for some, they will need to make these adjustments rather quickly since we have both the Bill Farrell and the Senior Nationals right around the corner.

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I could understand if Bo was close to 97 in weight right now. But somebody said he weighed 87.2 kg in Budapest. Why would he attempt to go to 97 next year instead of 86? If nothing else physically he's going to be giving away a lot of strength and just because he puts that much weight on in one year doesn't mean his conditioning is going to be there. Remember how long it took both Yazdani and Taylor to get to where they were comfortable at that weight? I don't get it. Plus he's going to have to wrestle a member of nlwc at either weight. I realize he's probably closer to Taylor but if he's going to do what's best for him I think it's at 86 not 97.

4 hours ago, spladle08 said:

Yeah I've never been a "scrap the program" guy... but the product we put out is absolutely shameful year in and out.

I joked in another group (I think it was Lamont that got the spot for somebody who couldnt go)... i said just raffle his trip off to the fans at 10 bucks a ticket.... you would save the team some money and it wouldnt change the overall result as far as medals go ...

Real talk though at the end of the day wrestling is the same world wide, tall, short, black, white... it's 2 bodies out there and there are only so many techniques.... i don't expect us to have astonishing depth, but with the amount of guys training year round, is even 4 competitive athletes too much to ask for?

Dont start with that "our best guys do freestyle" crap.... that goes back to our insistence on wrestling Folkstyle as youth so everyone is used to leg attacks (doesnt mean folkstyle is good, just means the majority of our athletes are guided away from greco at an early age)...

Even with that being the case. Its amazing we cant even create 2 consistently competitive athletes... its f'ning baffeling.
Eh well, pay coaches and athletes, and repeat.... the pattern...

We did very well in juniors this year. If you look at our results in freestyle at this tournament they are well below our norm. We don't send, with a couple of exceptions, anywhere near our best to this tournament. Lot of the guys are in college and so on and so forth. If our Juniors and seniors were as bad as this then I think it would be time for some major re-evaluation.

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21 hours ago, ConnorsDad said:

I could understand if Bo was close to 97 in weight right now. But somebody said he weighed 87.2 kg in Budapest. Why would he attempt to go to 97 next year instead of 86? If nothing else physically he's going to be giving away a lot of strength and just because he puts that much weight on in one year doesn't mean his conditioning is going to be there. Remember how long it took both Yazdani and Taylor to get to where they were comfortable at that weight? I don't get it. Plus he's going to have to wrestle a member of nlwc at either weight. I realize he's probably closer to Taylor but if he's going to do what's best for him I think it's at 86 not 97.

We did very well in juniors this year. If you look at our results in freestyle at this tournament they are well below our norm. We don't send, with a couple of exceptions, anywhere near our best to this tournament. Lot of the guys are in college and so on and so forth. If our Juniors and seniors were as bad as this then I think it would be time for some major re-evaluation.

O think this is actually a very good take on it.  Primarily the "in college" part.  I never  really did a lot of critical thinking on that idea.  However, when you think about it the thing our guys at that age are doing that not many in other parts of the world are is getttng an education.  It would be interesting nto see what our guys juggle when compared to the rest of the world.  Many are meeting the demands of college and trying to be elite athletes.  I would be surprised if a lot of the other elite athletes in the world are doing the same.  I would assume many are simply training full time.  That stands to reason why maybe manybe our athletes are older (post college) when they hit their stride on the international circuit. 

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I could understand if Bo was close to 97 in weight right now. But somebody said he weighed 87.2 kg in Budapest. Why would he attempt to go to 97 next year instead of 86? If nothing else physically he's going to be giving away a lot of strength and just because he puts that much weight on in one year doesn't mean his conditioning is going to be there. Remember how long it took both Yazdani and Taylor to get to where they were comfortable at that weight? I don't get it. Plus he's going to have to wrestle a member of nlwc at either weight. I realize he's probably closer to Taylor but if he's going to do what's best for him I think it's at 86 not 97.
We did very well in juniors this year. If you look at our results in freestyle at this tournament they are well below our norm. We don't send, with a couple of exceptions, anywhere near our best to this tournament. Lot of the guys are in college and so on and so forth. If our Juniors and seniors were as bad as this then I think it would be time for some major re-evaluation.
Sorry, Greco was my main reason for that post. I just dont understand how the gap widens so significantly as we increase in age....

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On 11/3/2019 at 2:40 PM, spladle08 said:
On 11/2/2019 at 5:30 PM, ConnorsDad said:
I could understand if Bo was close to 97 in weight right now. But somebody said he weighed 87.2 kg in Budapest. Why would he attempt to go to 97 next year instead of 86? If nothing else physically he's going to be giving away a lot of strength and just because he puts that much weight on in one year doesn't mean his conditioning is going to be there. Remember how long it took both Yazdani and Taylor to get to where they were comfortable at that weight? I don't get it. Plus he's going to have to wrestle a member of nlwc at either weight. I realize he's probably closer to Taylor but if he's going to do what's best for him I think it's at 86 not 97.
We did very well in juniors this year. If you look at our results in freestyle at this tournament they are well below our norm. We don't send, with a couple of exceptions, anywhere near our best to this tournament. Lot of the guys are in college and so on and so forth. If our Juniors and seniors were as bad as this then I think it would be time for some major re-evaluation.

Sorry, Greco was my main reason for that post. I just dont understand how the gap widens so significantly as we increase in age....

Why does the gap (in Greco) widen as we get older in age? Because our youth wrestlers start (Folkstyle/Freestyle/Greco) at a very young age compared to the rest of the world (when to start, how young is too young, what should be emphasized is another topic), and have a lot of experience with wrestling in general by the time they are teens, so they are competitive on a world stage simply because they have a lot more years of wrestling and competing. The gap appears and widens as the rest of the world gains more total years of experience and as they only wrestle their one chosen style. Our Greco kids wrestle at least two and usually three three styles through high school and beyond. A 12 year old kid kid that starts wrestling Greco, and only Greco in Armenia for example, catches up quickly and then surpasses us and widens the gap as they move through and out of their teens. 

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Why does the gap (in Greco) widen as we get older in age? Because our youth wrestlers start (Folkstyle/Freestyle/Greco) at a very young age compared to the rest of the world (when to start, how young is too young, what should be emphasized is another topic), and have a lot of experience with wrestling in general by the time they are teens, so they are competitive on a world stage simply because they have a lot more years of wrestling and competing. The gap appears and widens as the rest of the world gains more total years of experience and as they only wrestle their one chosen style. Our Greco kids wrestle at least two and usually three three styles through high school and beyond. A 12 year old kid kid that starts wrestling Greco, and only Greco in Armenia for example, catches up quickly and then surpasses us and widens the gap as they move through and out of their teens. 
GREAT POST!

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