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Cox to 86kg — because he wants to block DT?

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If I’m Ringer I’m trying to find a way to drop to the 4 or 5 seed. Even though I don’t see him beating Cox (or a healthy DT) in the day 2 finals, I think he easily beats Downey and comes out of the top half day 1...which makes him the first Olympic alternate.

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7 minutes ago, ugarte said:

if there is only one non-oly weight guy getting a bye to the semis do they "protect" the one seed by putting him in the bottom of the bracket with 2/3?

No. The one non-oly weight guy automatically goes into the semis in the bottom half. The #1 seed stays in the top line of the top half, with #4 seed being the highest seed standing in his way before the finals. 

Putting the medalist with a bye to the semis in the bottom half effectively protects the #1 seed but obviously hurts the #2 and #3 seeds. 

86 this year is going to be a rather extreme example of this if Downey qualifies the weight at Pan Ams...because everybody knows the 3 top guys will all be in the bottom half. MOST of the time a guy who qualifies the weight will be sitting in the day 2 finals and not seeded at all. Only way someone can lock up the #1 seed and not get a bye is if they lose a bronze medal match or qualify the weight the following year (at Pan Ams for example). 

If DT hadn’t gotten injured and medaled last year the bracket would look much more reasonable and balanced. DT would be in the day 2 finals, Ringer would be the 1 seed, and Cox would be sitting in the bottom semi’s with Downey probably as the 2 seed. 

Edited by MDogg

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21 minutes ago, ugarte said:

if there is only one non-oly weight guy getting a bye to the semis do they "protect" the one seed by putting him in the bottom of the bracket with 2/3?

13 minutes ago, MDogg said:

No. The one non-oly weight guy automatically goes into the semis in the bottom half. The #1 seed stays in the top line of the top half, with #4 seed being the highest seed standing in his way before the finals. 

Putting the medalist with a bye to the semis in the bottom half effectively protects the #1 seed but obviously hurts the #2 and #3 seeds. 

I wrote an sloppy sentence with unclear pronoun referencing. I meant to ask if the bracket protects the 1 (Downey) by putting the non-oly qualifier (Cox) in the bottom with the 2/3.  Everything here means the answer to my intended question was "yes." Thanks.

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What is more disturbing is that Downey may very realistically not qualify the weight if given the Pan Am nod. That punishes Taylor, Cox, (and Ringer and Valencia ?and Nickal? when they inquired last year of Taylor's availability so they could bump up). Taylor should have to qualify the weight and turn around and make weight a couple weeks later. Ya know, to get in some live reps. Not that I'm salty that he did what's best for himself as he absolutely should have, I'm salty that he knew he couldn't go and he hosed the 2020 squad.

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1 hour ago, MDogg said:

No. The one non-oly weight guy automatically goes into the semis in the bottom half. The #1 seed stays in the top line of the top half, with #4 seed being the highest seed standing in his way before the finals. 

Putting the medalist with a bye to the semis in the bottom half effectively protects the #1 seed but obviously hurts the #2 and #3 seeds. 

86 this year is going to be a rather extreme example of this if Downey qualifies the weight at Pan Ams...because everybody knows the 3 top guys will all be in the bottom half. MOST of the time a guy who qualifies the weight will be sitting in the day 2 finals and not seeded at all. Only way someone can lock up the #1 seed and not get a bye is if they lose a bronze medal match or qualify the weight the following year (at Pan Ams for example). 

If DT hadn’t gotten injured and medaled last year the bracket would look much more reasonable and balanced. DT would be in the day 2 finals, Ringer would be the 1 seed, and Cox would be sitting in the bottom semi’s with Downey probably as the 2 seed. 

I think where they place the returning medalists relative to the 1 seed is designed to protect the 1) the returning medalist and 2) the one seed.

If Cox goes 97kg which is likely then the bracket won't be very unbalance even if Downey qualifies the weight and gets the one seed. it could be  1) Downey, 2) DT, 3)Dieringer, 4)Valencia, 5) Heflin or swap Heflin and Valencia or DT and Ringer.

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8 hours ago, Cradle1 said:

Because he hasn’t made 189 with a same day weigh in since he was 14?

You clearly didn't read the OP.  Cox dislikes Taylor so much he is going to wrestle 86kg out of spite.  But if he dislikes Taylor so much why did he go up from 86kg in the first place?

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3 minutes ago, Fishbane said:

You clearly didn't read the OP.  Cox dislikes Taylor so much he is going to wrestle 86kg out of spite.  But if he dislikes Taylor so much why did he go up from 86kg in the first place?

Because 86 Kg is not an ideal weight for him. 

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24 minutes ago, buckeye97 said:

Any news on J'Den joining Ohio RTC? Is that going to happen?

Any news on which weight class J'den will choose? Is that ever going to happen?

(Sorry J'den, couldn't resist. It is a fascinating decision for us fans, either way you go.  :D  )

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13 hours ago, buckeye97 said:

Any news on J'Den joining Ohio RTC? Is that going to happen?

Flo posted an interview with Tom Ryan over the weekend.  He mentions it there but gives no details on whether it’s happening and says Jden could go either weight and it wasn’t being pursued to get back at Snyder.   A few weeks ago I had heard it was a done deal, he was going 97kg, and the RTC was pursuing another top 97kg wrestler as well.

https://www.flowrestling.org/events/6586299-2019-stanford-vs-ohio-state-big-ten-wrestling/videos?playing=6596252&limit=60

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On 11/12/2019 at 7:16 AM, Fishbane said:

Flo posted an interview with Tom Ryan over the weekend.  He mentions it there but gives no details on whether it’s happening and says Jden could go either weight and it wasn’t being pursued to get back at Snyder.   A few weeks ago I had heard it was a done deal, he was going 97kg, and the RTC was pursuing another top 97kg wrestler as well.

https://www.flowrestling.org/events/6586299-2019-stanford-vs-ohio-state-big-ten-wrestling/videos?playing=6596252&limit=60

If this is true it's a little confusing to me as to why he would leave the OTC.  He has done really well under KJ.  Also, if Snyder left because of workout partners why would he go there.  Is he gonna have workout partners.  I'm not knocking tOSU.  It's more that he has won 2 world gold's with KJ and the OTC so why leave now.  

The only thing that I can see in it is that they will know Snyder well, who he has to beat.  However, I think snyder will wrestle a little different so I don't know that is a benefit.  He will be training for the Snyder that was at tOSU.  Not the one at PSU. 

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20 minutes ago, scramble said:

If this is true it's a little confusing to me as to why he would leave the OTC.  He has done really well under KJ.  Also, if Snyder left because of workout partners why would he go there.  Is he gonna have workout partners.  I'm not knocking tOSU.  It's more that he has won 2 world gold's with KJ and the OTC so why leave now.  

The only thing that I can see in it is that they will know Snyder well, who he has to beat.  However, I think snyder will wrestle a little different so I don't know that is a benefit.  He will be training for the Snyder that was at tOSU.  Not the one at PSU. 

Who are his regular training partners at the OTC? Snyder is in State College, Taylor is in State College, Bo Nickal is in State College, Pat Downey is at Rutgers, Heflin is in Oklahoma, Walz is at tech, Macchiavello and Gwiz are in Raleigh, Dake is in Ithaca, and Dieringer is in Stillwater.  I doubt the NLWC guys, Dake, or Heflin spend much time at the OTC between now and the trials.  Maybe Walz, Gwiz, and Macchiavello will be there.   Possibly Steveson too since he is in some kind of limbo in MN.

Anyway the rumour is that the Ohio RTC is trying to get Gadson. So he would have at least Bo Jordan, Kolin Moore, Myles Martin, Dlagnev, and Chase Singletary to work out with as well as potentially Gadson, which stacks up well to work out partners anywhere outside of State College. The Ohio State Snyder vs NLWC Snyder is really a neutral consideration.  Coaches at the OTC would not be able to coach to that either as NLWC Snyder doesn't really exist yet and no one will probably see it outside of the NLWC until Yariguin in January.  Except for maybe Kyle's brother who is still in Columbus.  He will be in an interesting position if all this actually goes off

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1 hour ago, scramble said:

If this is true it's a little confusing to me as to why he would leave the OTC.  He has done really well under KJ.  Also, if Snyder left because of workout partners why would he go there.  Is he gonna have workout partners.  I'm not knocking tOSU.  It's more that he has won 2 world gold's with KJ and the OTC so why leave now.  

The only thing that I can see in it is that they will know Snyder well, who he has to beat.  However, I think snyder will wrestle a little different so I don't know that is a benefit.  He will be training for the Snyder that was at tOSU.  Not the one at PSU. 

Nice post.

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23 minutes ago, Fishbane said:

Who are his regular training partners at the OTC? Snyder is in State College, Taylor is in State College, Bo Nickal is in State College, Pat Downey is at Rutgers, Heflin is in Oklahoma, Walz is at tech, Macchiavello and Gwiz are in Raleigh, Dake is in Ithaca, and Dieringer is in Stillwater.  I doubt the NLWC guys, Dake, or Heflin spend much time at the OTC between now and the trials.  Maybe Walz, Gwiz, and Macchiavello will be there.   Possibly Steveson too since he is in some kind of limbo in MN.

Anyway the rumour is that the Ohio RTC is trying to get Gadson. So he would have at least Bo Jordan, Kolin Moore, Myles Martin, Dlagnev, and Chase Singletary to work out with as well as potentially Gadson, which stacks up well to work out partners anywhere outside of State College. The Ohio State Snyder vs NLWC Snyder is really a neutral consideration.  Coaches at the OTC would not be able to coach to that either as NLWC Snyder doesn't really exist yet and no one will probably see it outside of the NLWC until Yariguin in January.  Except for maybe Kyle's brother who is still in Columbus.  He will be in an interesting position if all this actually goes off

Another nice post.

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Yeah I guess we'll find out all this stuff fairly soon.

Like many of us have been saying, it's just a shame we don't have all our weight classes at the Olympics. Nonetheless, I find this whole story line extremely fascinating. Love all 3 guys - Taylor, Cox and Snyder. 

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Cox look TST in his most recent Flo interview with Bader.

Also notice he put more emphasis on talking about 97 than 86 in his response about 'hostility' in cross training, or what could be conceived as such 

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Yeah, for sure it has nothing to do with the fact that he most likely would lose to Snyder and not get a berth. And his best chance to make the team is going down to face Taylor. Definitely nothing to do with that. /s

Edited by jsmalls131313

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47 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Cox look TST in his most recent Flo interview with Bader.

Also notice he put more emphasis on talking about 97 than 86 in his response about 'hostility' in cross training, or what could be conceived as such 

Thanks, I just saw Bader's interview. BTW, what is TST?

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