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pa in taiwan

What Bo could become

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36 minutes ago, Cradle1 said:

As far as I can tell the Russian bo teched was in the conversation to be Russia’s rep the last two years....

At 92kg, which is probably Russia's weakest weight of all. And that was a conversation he lost. 

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We can talk about what he could or couldn't do at the world stage (I'm in the " Bo can medal soon" camp), but I just don't see him getting past Cox at any weight class. Much like DT vs. Dake, I see the exact situation with Bo and Cox. Cox is stronger and more athletic, and that's the insurmountable difference.

I do agree with the guys who think Bo has a better shot against Snyder. Versus Synder, I think Bo has an athletic edge as well as a substantial length/reach advantage, which matter a lot to Bo's style (we saw how ineffective he was against a quicker, stronger Cox). Also, I think Snyder's mental state is questionable right now. On his rise, Snyder was the hunter, nothing to lose. Now, he's the hunted, and a wounded animal at that. Some see his switch to NLWC as a sign of strength, i.e. he's committed to finding the best environment to improve.  I saw that as a sign of weakness, even if it is a good move from a training perspective. Bo is not the type of opponent to whom I would want to give a daily look. If we're being objective, we have to handicap Bo's chances of ousting Snyder next year as very low, maybe in the single-digit range, but a scenario in which Snyder doesn't make the finals again in Toklyo and gets into a funk, with Bo gaining on him little by little is not unthinkable.

As a related aside, I think Bo may rethink his commitment to the sport and double down as a result of Snyder's move. If Bo gains on Snyder throughout the next year, which I can see happening, and as Bo assesses his chances at UFC glory, he may realize that it may not pay more to switch sports just yet. At 185 lbs, you have Israel Adesanya, arguably the P4P best fighter in the world right now. The UFC is certainly interested in the dynamic, charismatic Adesanya's success. He is a franchise-builder type of talent and personality. AT 205 lbs, you have Jon Jones, arguably the best MMA fighter ever.Neither are close to retirement today.

If I were Bo, I would commit to 2024 and cross-train MMA. His stock will be greater as a fighter with a senior men's world medal and by 2024, Adesanya (who'll be 34 then) may be calling it a career or close, while Jon Jones (36 then) will likely be out of the picture. Those names are relevant not because I think Bo will threaten either guy (I don't think that), but I think the financial trade-off between a national team member sponsored by the top RTC in the country and a non-title contending UFC athlete is marginal. You only really "make it" in MMA if you're a legit UFC title contender. As low as they may be today, I think Bo's chances of beating Snyder are far greater than his chances of contending for Adesanya's or Jones's belts until after the 2024 Olympics.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Nickal has a unique style and does some unorthodox things. Snyder practicing with him every day is a big advantage for Snyder.  IMO, that only eliminates  catching him in a rare weird positions.  Snyder will consistently beat him  with position and power.

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Earlier today on Instagram posted a pic of him from U23’s with the caption: “First if many world championships to come”

Hopefully he means that literally and is walking back his “MMA after 2020” plan. I suppose he could be talking about MMA titles, I’ve heard guys like Cormier and Cejudo refer to themselves as “world champions” after winning a UFC title...but that would be a weird thing for Bo to do before he’s even signed with any MMA organization. 

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1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

Nickal has a unique style and does some unorthodox things. Snyder practicing with him every day is a big advantage for Snyder.  IMO, that only eliminates  catching him in a rare weird positions.  Snyder will consistently beat him  with position and power.

I disagree. Snyder is without question one of the best to ever do what he does. But he does what he does and that’s about it. Bo might have a 5% chance of beating him today. But after a year of daily exposure to Snyder, I think it’s much more likely that 5% turns to 10 or 15% than 1 or 2%. Still a big dog, but over time, I see Bo gaining on Snyder the more they train than the other way around. 
 

I remember Alan Fried saying that as uniquely good as John Smith was, wrestling him every day allowed him to figure Smith out and keep it much closer than he had any business keeping any match against Smith. This rang true when I heard it. It’s also the reason why outstanding guys often wrestle closer than expected matches with teammates than with objectively tougher competitors. 

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Bo has always had doubters and he has proved them wrong almost every time.  Snyder, Cox, DT, Dake, etc. all those guys are great wrestlers and very accomplished, but Bo has had success at every level and he has beat almost everyone that he has taken the mat with.  I have watched Bo wrestle for many years and it still amazes me sometimes when he beats guys that I did not think he would.  No one gave him a shot against Gabe Dean in the NCAA Finals.  People have doubted him for years and all he has done is gone out and proved everyone wrong.  I do think that Cox and Snyder may be on another level than Bo, but I also believe that Bo may be at that level and we just have  not been able to witness it yet.  Wrestlers like Boare the type of wrestlers that the sport needs.  He is not going to bore people to death and he is always exciting.  Whatever Bo chooses to do, I know he will be great at it, I just hope we can see him on the mat for a while longer.  

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1 hour ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I disagree. Snyder is without question one of the best to ever do what he does. But he does what he does and that’s about it. Bo might have a 5% chance of beating him today. But after a year of daily exposure to Snyder, I think it’s much more likely that 5% turns to 10 or 15% than 1 or 2%. Still a big dog, but over time, I see Bo gaining on Snyder the more they train than the other way around. 
 

I remember Alan Fried saying that as uniquely good as John Smith was, wrestling him every day allowed him to figure Smith out and keep it much closer than he had any business keeping any match against Smith. This rang true when I heard it. It’s also the reason why outstanding guys often wrestle closer than expected matches with teammates than with objectively tougher competitors. 

But....Smith still always won them. 

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Just now, Lurker said:

But....Smith still always won them. 

Not all, actually, but then you’d have to believe Fried, which I do. The point is the gap narrowed the more time they spent training daily, and for a competitive guy like Bo, that could be motivating enough to stay in the sport another cycle. 

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18 hours ago, pa in taiwan said:

if Bo Nickal trained for chest wraps

There is a guy that throws world-champ level chest wraps, "bombs" if you will. Some in the NLWC may even call that guy their Best Rival

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7 hours ago, treep2000 said:

There are a lot of "absolutists" right now on this board, on how Bo WILL become great, or can NEVER make the team with the current lineup.  Unless you time travel, or have some telepathic precognitive powers, you all sound full of $#!&.  

Bo just won U23's in convincing fashion against a Top 10 Ranked (worldwide) opponent at a weight class where he is undersized.  A few supportive notes here:

* If Bo goes 86kg against a slimmed down version of Cox, I wonder if the outcome remains the same?  Bo will be a more natural weight, whereas Cox will be cutting the hardest he's ever cut. 

* If Bo goes 86kg, trains with DT, he'll have the "familiarity" bit going for him (as well as DT).  This makes this match incredibly close most likely, and a simple mistake could get him by DT (and vice versa).  And, DT's injury (which we really do not know the extent of) may hurt him in a razor thin matchup with anyone.

* If Bo goes up against Zahid:  Ringer took him out most recently at 79kg, out horsing him significantly.  Bo has even more horsepower, and is just as long/lanky/leveraged as Zahid.  I could absolutely see Bo defeating Zahid soundly.

* If Bo goes up against Ringer:  Ringer will be undersized significantly, and whatever horsepower Ringer brings will be nullified by Bo's own horsepower, as well as his sky-high wrestling IQ and creativeness.

* If Bo moves to 97kg, (only 8 weeks away, or less?), then he will be EXTREMELY undersized, and will be giving up a much more significant amount of horsepower to Gadsen, Snyder, etc.  I honestly see him #2 on the 97kg ladder, given his current performances, with the ability to definiteley beat Gadsen.  He's already beat Zillmer.  

I am NOT suggesting any of these as absolutes, AT ALL.  However, I see the path at 86kg to be difficult, but favoring Bo in various regards.  

Unless Bo pulls the same move he did against Kollin Moore on Snyder (he'd have to do it twice), I don't see him beating Snyder at 97kg.  Just too small.  Bo has now had his hands on a 92kg version of Cox, and an 86kg version of Cox may allow Bo to pull out his bag of tricks.

Do be absolutists... think of possibilities.  :-)

This is very wise.  The conventional wisdom is completely blown out of the water time and time again in this sport.  Who the hell knows what will happen.  Maybe Ringer takes the spot and wins Olympic Gold in 2020.  Seems a lot more likely than Slay beating Satiev seemed back in 1999. 

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6 hours ago, The Genius said:

At 92kg, which is probably Russia's weakest weight of all. And that was a conversation he lost. 

You know as well as I do the top three for Russia are always damn near interchangeable (except at 97 kg of course).  Point being, this is the sort of guy you beat on your way to winning a medal at Senior Worlds, in my opinion.  So Bo teching him is what you might call a "statement". 

I think it's possible we have the two best guys in the world at 92 kg right now, just as most believe we do at 79 kg......

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1 minute ago, Cradle1 said:

You know as well as I do the top three for Russia are always damn near interchangeable (except at 97 kg of course).  Point being, this is the sort of guy you beat on your way to winning a medal at Senior Worlds, in my opinion.  So Bo teching him is what you might call a "statement". 

I think it's possible we have the two best guys in the world at 92 kg right now, just as most believe we do at 79 kg......

Well we also know that performances at age restricted groups don't always translate onto performances at senior level competitions, so to say he is suddenly the #2 at 92kg is a bit silly.

Beating the #2 Russian at that weight at a non-seniors event doesn't make him the #2 guy at the weight. Even Zhabrailov himself is top 4 at best. 

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Well I think that Bo, has a ton of potential, and if he can ever break into the Senior team line up, I think he could very well be a World or Olympic Champ. 

Although I have nothing to base this on, I kind of feel that if J'den wins a Gold medal in Tokyo, I think he might call it a career, especially if he has to drop to 86 to do it. If that happens, that would open up 92 for Bo. 

I also think next year will be JB's last rodeo. I have no idea about what Kyle Dake's plans are but I could also see him calling it a day if he drops to 74, and win a Gold in Tokyo. Which if that happened that would leave the door open for IMar, and a few other people. I guess at the point you would have to ask does Dieringer come back down or does he stay at 79. 

Then we ask what are DT's plans, now I have heard that he is like SnyderMan and wants to wrestle for the for foreseeable future, so 86, and 97 may be locked up, unless something happens. Bo may have a career that kind of follows KD's and DT's path. 

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On 11/3/2019 at 4:54 PM, de4856 said:

Well I think that Bo, has a ton of potential, and if he can ever break into the Senior team line up, I think he could very well be a World or Olympic Champ. 

Although I have nothing to base this on, I kind of feel that if J'den wins a Gold medal in Tokyo, I think he might call it a career, especially if he has to drop to 86 to do it. If that happens, that would open up 92 for Bo. 

 

I agree with the first sentiment because I think if he makes a senior world team, he will have to beat either Taylor, Cox, or Snyder.  I don't think Cox will step away from competition after 2020 with the RTC system in its present form.  He is still very young and he will be paid really well by an RTC simply to just train on site full time (Tom Ryan expressed interest in recruiting Cox in an interview posted on Flo this week). Also, the best way to monetize an olympic gold medal is to compete in the olympics in the following cycle. I'm not saying it's impossible because Cox is a super unique guy and might just do something else, but I find it unlikely given how talented/driven he is.

Edited by Billyhoyle

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