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NJDan

Spencer Lee in Tokyo

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1 hour ago, NJDan said:

I know  he  has not wrestled much freestyle lately, but could he be the favorite for the Olympic team at 57K?

No.  Honestly-  over last three years he’s looked very beatable most of the time.  If he can return to 2018 ncaa form it’s a different conversation.

Edited by Cradle1

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2 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

He has looked vulnerable beyond the first period most of the time.  He will definitely add excitement and storyline to the mix this spring.

Due to an ACL tear and an obvious illness.  A 100% Lee will definitely be right there with Fix/Gilman at the OTTs

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1 minute ago, TBar1977 said:

And if he loses then it will be because he is obviously not 100% (see this past year's losses). 

You're probably right that some on this board will claim that.  I'm not one of them.  I just think it was rather obvious that something wasn't right with him this past season.  I think Ray Charles could have seen that.

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26 minutes ago, Bozak2018 said:

You're probably right that some on this board will claim that.  I'm not one of them.  I just think it was rather obvious that something wasn't right with him this past season.  I think Ray Charles could have seen that.

Yes, those losses were because, as you state, it was obvious something wasn't right with him. I have heard this has been the case in every loss he has had since about age 11. 

Edited by TBar1977

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I hope that Spencer is 100% and give it his all. 

I hope that he's been practicing hard with Gilman and DeSanto and whomever else (Dennis) so that he can knock whatever rust he has off.

I hope that his gas tank can keep up

That being said, I think he's probably top 3 in the US, but unfortunately haven't seen any recent evidence that he can hang with the rest of the world at 57kg at the Senior level.  His prior accomplishments are incredible, and nothing should take away from that.  But... in this sport... things change.  Weights change.  Motivations change.  Perspectives change.  Change changes things.

Will be fun to watch, no doubt.

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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

And if he loses then it will be because he is obviously not 100% (see this past year's losses). 

Kinda like David Taylor, who lost a freestyle match to a senior in college during the Spring, and hasn't competed since?

Edited by AHamilton

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11 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Kinda like David Taylor, who lost a freestyle match to a senior in college during the Spring, and hasn't competed since?

Taylor tore his ACL during that match. Tearing an ACL during the match seems slightly more extreme than when Spencer Lee lost to Rivera 2x and Picc 1x this past spring. CP and Bratke did a preview of their match last year. No mention of torn ACL. Didn't see a torn ACL in the match either. I must have just missed it. 

https://www.flowrestling.org/events/6263874-iowa-vs-northwestern-2019-ncaa-wrestling/videos?playing=6330144

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1 minute ago, TBar1977 said:

Taylor tore his ACL during that match. Tearing an ACL during the match seems slightly more extreme than when Spencer Lee lost to Rivera 2x and Picc 1x this past spring. CP and Bratke did a preview of their match last year. No mention of torn ACL. Didn't see a torn ACL in the match either. I must have just missed it. 

https://www.flowrestling.org/events/6263874-iowa-vs-northwestern-2019-ncaa-wrestling/videos?playing=6330144

The fact remains that Taylor lost a match to a competitor with very little in the realm of freestyle accolades.  Meanwhile Yianni wins multiple matches with the same injury, as did Lee. 

You have no problem making excuses for DT, however if the person wears a black and gold singlet, you don't like the excuses?

At least you have a little time to make excuses when thing don't go well for DT in his comeback.  

(For the record, I am a big fan of David Taylor's wrestling, but not a fan of some poster's hypocrisy and am merely posting something to think about...)

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All BS aside, I am concerned DT will not be 100%. It's different for guys like Dake or JB to come back from major surgery and beat elite competition. They just have more ways to win and more adjustments they can make to reduce the impact of their injury. DT needs a fast pace and lots of action to beat elite competition. Also, DT generally has a good gas tank, but every time he has lost to elite competition (JB, Dake, Cox), he has gotten tired and faded, per his own admission. If I had to pick an American world champion to get injured, DT would be the last I'd pick.

On the Nickal topic, while I'm confident DT big brothers Nickal in the room, I am not confident he could beat Nickal right now. Peak DT, no question. Recovering DT... very unsure.

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1 minute ago, wrestlingnerd said:

All BS aside, I am concerned DT will not be 100%. It's different for guys like Dake or JB to come back from major surgery and beat elite competition. They just have more ways to win and more adjustments they can make to reduce the impact of their injury. DT needs a fast pace and lots of action to beat elite competition. Also, DT generally has a good gas tank, but every time he has lost to elite competition (JB, Dake, Cox), he has gotten tired and faded, per his own admission. If I had to pick an American world champion to get injured, DT would be the last I'd pick.

On the Nickal topic, while I'm confident DT big brothers Nickal in the room, I am not confident he could beat Nickal right now. Peak DT, no question. Recovering DT... very unsure.

I don't recall DT saying he got tired vs Cox. I do recall his comments regarding getting tired at 74Kg, so Burroughs and Dake yes. 

I think DT wasn't at full beast mode until the year he first beat Yazdani, also the year he lost to Cox. Before that he was cutting more than he said he was comfortable with or still growing into 86Kg. 

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He didn't say it, but at least I thought it was obvious. Down by 2 with a minute left to go, I vividly remember seeing a (for DT) sloppy, slow DT. Go watch the match again. It's like watching tape of DT in slow motion. In DT's defense, he was rightfully winded after chasing Cox all over the mat for a whole minute and a half, but let's just say that first period crisp, he was not.

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28 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Other than the slip-n-slide matches, I think I have pretty much been excuse free on DT's matches. And I take great pride in my slip-n-slide posts in regards to those matches. 

 

$_32.JPG

I agree.

Other than the slip and slide matches, the Grapple in the Garden, and potential future matches, you have been mostly excuse free.  

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How did I make an excuse when DT suffered a torn acl? How does a torn acl even require an excuse? Your claim here is at the same time both totally inaccurate and completely preposterous. 

Edited by TBar1977

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1 hour ago, AHamilton said:

The fact remains that Taylor lost a match to a competitor with very little in the realm of freestyle accolades.  Meanwhile Yianni wins multiple matches with the same injury, as did Lee. 

 

This is a strawman argument.  

1.) Not every ACL injury is created equal. 

2.) Taylor didn't "lose" the match.  That's preposterous.  I was rolling last night at BJJ with a zero stripe white belt showing him some super basic technique, and whammo, I pulled my groin.  **** happens, and it doesn't mean I lost.  I wasn't even competing.  It just happened.  

3.) Others can choose or not choose whether or not to continue to compete with an injury.  I commend DT for stopping and not making things worse.  

I guarantee you 100%, without an injury to stop the match, that Taylor was going to tech him.  Period.  Not even close. 

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30 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

This is a strawman argument.  

1.) Not every ACL injury is created equal. 

2.) Taylor didn't "lose" the match.  That's preposterous.  I was rolling last night at BJJ with a zero stripe white belt showing him some super basic technique, and whammo, I pulled my groin.  **** happens, and it doesn't mean I lost.  I wasn't even competing.  It just happened.  

3.) Others can choose or not choose whether or not to continue to compete with an injury.  I commend DT for stopping and not making things worse.  

I guarantee you 100%, without an injury to stop the match, that Taylor was going to tech him.  Period.  Not even close. 

This. Nice rebuttal to what was an absurd post. 

Edited by TBar1977

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2 hours ago, AHamilton said:

The fact remains that Taylor lost a match to a competitor with very little in the realm of freestyle accolades.  Meanwhile Yianni wins multiple matches with the same injury, as did Lee. 

“Taylor lost a match to a competitor...” hahaha. That’s the single most preposterous take I've seen on these message boards. He tore his ACL during an exhibition match at a charity event and did not continue...because it was meaningless. Did Dake “lose” to Max Dean when he tore his ACL while they were going live in practice and couldn’t continue? Practice and BTS matches count the same.

So in your mind Drew Foster owns a win over David Taylor in a freestyle wrestling match and can go around and tell people that with a straight face? 

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I’m not trying to take sides or anything, but BTS and practice matches are obviously not the same. Technically, nothing Hamilton said about that match is wrong. Jason Nolf lost a match to the Rutgers kid last year. That was the only way he was ever going to lose that match, and it was incredibly unfortunate, but he has one more L in his official NCAA record as a result. DT too has an official loss due to injury default. 

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