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47 minutes ago, TheOhioState said:

Yep...you're touching a third rail with your left-wing atheist nonsense.  

Tervel took the coaching job when Stieber was still competing.  

Tom Ryan is a better man than most people could ever hope to be.

Duke Ellington:  "When anyone says to me that Art Tatum plays too many notes, I immediately dismiss of them in my mind."



 

Nonsense?  tOSU is a publicly funded institution.   I don't think the Constitution is left wing, it is the law of the land.  So stop with that BS. 

Bobby Douglas was coaching when Cael was still competing, but that didnt stop them from hiring Cael.  So I dont see your point.  When someone is not performing, you find someone who will or you perceive will be better.  Snyder won in World titles in 15, 16 and 17.  Lou was there in 14, 15 and most of 16.  What are the results after 17? 

I get your man crush on Ryan, but tell me how being a "better" man than most hope to be, means he is also the best coach out there?  The two have little to do with each other.  We are talking about wrestling and coaching.  Who has he developed from an average wrestler to a great wrestler?  None that I can think of.  How many great wrestlers did he get that under performed once they got there? Several (take both Jordans, Bo beat Imar handily in HS, Micah was on par with Nolf at the conclusion of HS)  He also probably holds the record for having freshman champs to never repeat again.  I am not being ugly here, just stating my opinion and a few facts.  Ryan and Dlagnev are not the best people for the job, they can do better.  If they are so great, why did Snyder leave?  Why did Kerk leave? 

And your last statement, is so snowflake.  "If I don't like someones opinions, I bury my head in the sand.  I don't want to have a debate on a real issue, I just want to stick to my beliefs."  Grow up and lets debate this, and not throw out some stupid statement like Tom Ryan is a better man....

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Nonsense?  tOSU is a publicly funded institution.   I don't think the Constitution is left wing, it is the law of the land.  So stop with that BS. 
Bobby Douglas was coaching when Cael was still competing, but that didnt stop them from hiring Cael.  So I dont see your point.  When someone is not performing, you find someone who will or you perceive will be better.  Snyder won in World titles in 15, 16 and 17.  Lou was there in 14, 15 and most of 16.  What are the results after 17? 
I get your man crush on Ryan, but tell me how being a "better" man than most hope to be, means he is also the best coach out there?  The two have little to do with each other.  We are talking about wrestling and coaching.  Who has he developed from an average wrestler to a great wrestler?  None that I can think of.  How many great wrestlers did he get that under performed once they got there? Several (take both Jordans, Bo beat Imar handily in HS, Micah was on par with Nolf at the conclusion of HS)  He also probably holds the record for having freshman champs to never repeat again.  I am not being ugly here, just stating my opinion and a few facts.  Ryan and Dlagnev are not the best people for the job, they can do better.  If they are so great, why did Snyder leave?  Why did Kerk leave? 
And your last statement, is so snowflake.  "If I don't like someones opinions, I bury my head in the sand.  I don't want to have a debate on a real issue, I just want to stick to my beliefs."  Grow up and lets debate this, and not throw out some stupid statement like Tom Ryan is a better man....
Who could do better than Tom Ryan at Ohio State? Is there a short list out there? Maybe they could hire Sadlueav after Ryan's contract expires.

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5 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

Who could do better than Tom Ryan at Ohio State? Is there a short list out there? Maybe they could hire Sadlueav after Ryan's contract expires.

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Ohio State could get whomever they want (except Cael).  Pat Popolizio, Cary Kolat, Terry Brands, Kevin Dresser, etc.  PSU did.  

Edited by jeffrideal

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Ohio State could get whomever they want (except Cael).  Pat Popolizio, Cary Kolat, Terry Brands, Kevin Dresser, etc.  PSU did.  
None of those guys are better than Tom Ryan. Zero.

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8 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

None of those guys are better than Tom Ryan. Zero.

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Ok, based on what? And I say this meaning what is your criteria.  I get that Ryan won a NCAA, that was great and I thoroughly enjoyed it.  But I dont see him winning another one.  Some coaches lose a step and get replaced.  Happens all the time.  Ryan did a great job getting them to this point, but I dont think he can move the needle much more. 

Edited by jeffrideal

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1 hour ago, jeffrideal said:

Nonsense?  tOSU is a publicly funded institution.   I don't think the Constitution is left wing, it is the law of the land.  So stop with that BS. 

Bobby Douglas was coaching when Cael was still competing, but that didnt stop them from hiring Cael.  So I dont see your point.  When someone is not performing, you find someone who will or you perceive will be better.  Snyder won in World titles in 15, 16 and 17.  Lou was there in 14, 15 and most of 16.  What are the results after 17? 

I get your man crush on Ryan, but tell me how being a "better" man than most hope to be, means he is also the best coach out there?  The two have little to do with each other.  We are talking about wrestling and coaching.  Who has he developed from an average wrestler to a great wrestler?  None that I can think of.  How many great wrestlers did he get that under performed once they got there? Several (take both Jordans, Bo beat Imar handily in HS, Micah was on par with Nolf at the conclusion of HS)  He also probably holds the record for having freshman champs to never repeat again.  I am not being ugly here, just stating my opinion and a few facts.  Ryan and Dlagnev are not the best people for the job, they can do better.  If they are so great, why did Snyder leave?  Why did Kerk leave? 

And your last statement, is so snowflake.  "If I don't like someones opinions, I bury my head in the sand.  I don't want to have a debate on a real issue, I just want to stick to my beliefs."  Grow up and lets debate this, and not throw out some stupid statement like Tom Ryan is a better man....

I'm guessing you're  two digits.  The first number ain't round on the top.

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54 minutes ago, jeffrideal said:

Ohio State could get whomever they want (except Cael).  Pat Popolizio, Cary Kolat, Terry Brands, Kevin Dresser, etc.  PSU did.  

Tom Ryan's great, but Dresser at tOSU would be dangerous.

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38 minutes ago, jeffrideal said:

Ok, based on what? And I say this meaning what is your criteria.  I get that Ryan won a NCAA, that was great and I thoroughly enjoyed it.  But I dont see him winning another one.  Some coaches lose a step and get replaced.  Happens all the time.  Ryan did a great job getting them to this point, but I dont think he can move the needle much more. 

1st, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd....which of those coaches mentioned would have been better the last 5 years with tOSU roster? If he is 2nd to PSU every year, how can he move the needle much more without defeating them, which nobody has managed to do except Ryan. So yes, outside of Cael, Ryan has statistically been the next best coach in the country the last 5 years. What you "think" will happen next is just as much speculation as anyone else. 

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2 minutes ago, Idaho said:

1st, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd....which of those coaches mentioned would have been better the last 5 years with tOSU roster? If he is 2nd to PSU every year, how can he move the needle much more without defeating them, which nobody has managed to do except Ryan. So yes, outside of Cael, Ryan has statistically been the next best coach in the country the last 5 years. What you "think" will happen next is just as much speculation as anyone else. 

With the amount of resources at tOSU, they should be there or better. 

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1 minute ago, jeffrideal said:

With the amount of resources at tOSU, they should be there or better. 

ummm....so you're saying that with the resources that Ryan has at tOSU that he should be beating a better, younger coach in Cael who has more resources than tOSU? BTW, if you are second the last three years, what does "there or better" mean? I get better - that would be 1st. But, there? Weren't they there already at 2nd? 

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1 hour ago, cjc007 said:

None of those guys are better than Tom Ryan. Zero.

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I agree for the most part.  It is hard to argue with what Ryan has done.  He has more trophies I believe at this point than any coach in the country except Sanderson and Smith.  Maybe Brands and Zalesky when he was at Iowa, but I don't know the numbers for sure. Can't remember how long Brands has been at Iowa.  Regardless, OSU, IA, and PSU are the only places with coaches who come close. 

Also, Snyder leaving does not reflect on Ryan or Trevel in my opinion.  Sometimes you just need a change after spending 6 or 7 years with the same coaches and partners.   

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I would say though that dresser may be able to do at least as good.  He has been impressive.  Other than that though it would probably take one of our current world champs to match it, largely due to their ability to bring in big recruits. Even them it would be a learning curve. I think Humphreys would probably do a good job as well. 

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27 minutes ago, PABuck said:

Do we need any more?

My opinion of Tom Ryan is that he is housing talent but not doing much with it. He has had top tier classes every single year, but the only guys who are winning titles are guys that would everywhere. Where is the development? Nato? Wins as a freshman and never again. Myles Martin? Same. Snyder and Stieber all he had to do was get out of there way. Who is the guy that really become a contender from the stellar coaching? Where is the Macchiovello?

Last year I watched OSU get outcoached and out classed at absolutely every level when they wrestled PSU. It was kind of depressing to watch, especially after Ryan came out and made it sound like this was his teams super bowl and Cael came out and made it seem like this was no big deal at all. 

All the whoo whoo B.S. that he spills is not just cringeworthy. I actually think its ineffective.

Is it about religion to me? No. I am very confident that Ryan would not recruit an openly atheistic wrestler, which is wrong, but its not my problem with him. 

Edited by russelscout

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1 minute ago, Idaho said:

ummm....so you're saying that with the resources that Ryan has at tOSU that he should be beating a better, younger coach in Cael who has more resources than tOSU? BTW, if you are second the last three years, what does "there or better" mean? I get better - that would be 1st. But, there? Weren't they there already at 2nd? 

Yes, with the talent they have recruited and the resources they have and the state of Ohio (with no real in-state competition for recruiting), they should be 1st a few more times.  Second in one of those years was competitive, the others were not.  So let me ask, if you were to stack rank the best coaches in NCAA, you would put Ryan at #2?  Recruiting, Ryan is one of the best, developing those recruits, not even close.  Which goes back to my original point, Ryan creates a mono-culture and tries to fit those kids into that mold, which is not necessarily wrestling.

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11 minutes ago, jeffrideal said:

Yes, with the talent they have recruited and the resources they have and the state of Ohio (with no real in-state competition for recruiting), they should be 1st a few more times.  Second in one of those years was competitive, the others were not.  So let me ask, if you were to stack rank the best coaches in NCAA, you would put Ryan at #2?  Recruiting, Ryan is one of the best, developing those recruits, not even close.  Which goes back to my original point, Ryan creates a mono-culture and tries to fit those kids into that mold, which is not necessarily wrestling.

Who develops talent better, other than Cael?  He developed an olympic champion, multiple ncaa champions, and even more all americans.  

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17 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Who develops talent better, other than Cael?  He developed an olympic champion, multiple ncaa champions, and even more all americans.  

He developed an Olympic champ? Snyder won the worlds his true freshman year after spending a year in the OTC before, and hasnt been able to remain at the top since Lou left. People that develop better? Brands, Pat Pop, John Smith. 

Edited by russelscout

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24 minutes ago, russelscout said:

My opinion of Tom Ryan is that he is housing talent but not doing much with it. He has had top tier classes every single year, but the only guys who are winning titles are guys that would everywhere. Where is the development? Nato? Wins as a freshman and never again. Myles Martin? Same. Snyder and Stieber all he had to do was get out of there way. Who is the guy that really become a contender from the stellar coaching? Where is the Macchiovello?

Last year I watched OSU get outcoached and out classed at absolutely every level when they wrestled PSU. It was kind of depressing to watch, especially after Ryan came out and made it sound like this was his teams super bowl and Cael came out and made it seem like this was no big deal at all. 

All the whoo whoo B.S. that he spills is not just cringeworthy. I actually think its ineffective.

Is it about religion to me? No. I am very confident that Ryan would not recruit an openly atheistic wrestler, which is wrong, but its not my problem with him. 

I don't think your criticism is well thought out or rational. In your opiinion, it's Ryan's fault when top tier recruits (who dealt with significant injuries most of their college careers) ONLY win one national championship. But, it is no credit to Ryan, when other recruits win 3 or 4. And, your repeated comments about "cringeworthy whoo whoo" and your unsupported suggestion that Ryan would not recruit an atheist make it clear that it is very much about religion to you!

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OHio State has always had the resources and the state of OHio has always been one of the better pools of talent. What has been the difference the past 12 years or so that tOSU wrestling has reached and maintained unprecedented heights for the program?

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