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Kerkvliet has entered the transfer portal...

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6 minutes ago, russelscout said:

He developed an Olympic champ? Snyder won the worlds his true freshman year after spending a year in the OTC, and hasnt been able to remain at the top since Lou left. People that develop better? Brands, Pat Pop, John Smith. 

Snyder won worlds after being at tOSU for a year, not after the year he was at the OTC.  Then he won the olympics, then he beat Sadulaev.  Tom Ryan has coached more world/olympic champions than those three combined.  Tom Brands got an equally heralded recruit in Spencer Lee, who seems to have stopped wrestling internationally since joining the program.  Metcalf was also very highly regarded as a recruit,  but was a very ineffective freestyler.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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Snyder won worlds after being at tOSU for a year, not after the year he was at the OTC.  Then he won the olympics, then he beat Sadulaev.  Tom Ryan has coached more world/olympic champions than those three combined.  Tom Brands got an equally heralded recruit in Spencer Lee, who seems to have stopped wrestling internationally since joining the program.  Metcalf was also very highly regarded as a recruit,  but was a very ineffective freestyler.  
"Very ineffective freestlyler"? Yeesh.

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Just now, PABuck said:

But, it is no credit to Ryan, when other recruits win 3 or 4.

How many schools would Snyder and Logan have had as much success as they did?

3 minutes ago, PABuck said:

And, your repeated comments about "cringeworthy whoo whoo" and your unsupported suggestion that Ryan would not recruit an atheist make it clear that it is very much about religion to you!

The whoo whoo thing is not about religion. Its about the positive infinity type things, unless you think that is also a religious msg. I dont think it is. I just think it was stupid. 

And what I said is not supported yes, but think about that, and tOSU is not the only one where this would be the case, but how out of place would a non believer feel in these programs that openly preach? Is that right? Just because I think about that doesnt mean its all about religion. You know why you should know that? Because I gave you several other reasons too. 

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1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

"Very ineffective freestlyler"? Yeesh.

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Sorry for not expanding on the comment.  Relative to the expectations he created from his dominance in folkstyle.  He looked like a fish out of water wrestling freestyle against international competition, and it is my opinion that he would be a world champion if he had focused on freestyle instead of folkstyle.  

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6 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Snyder won worlds after being at tOSU for a year, not after the year he was at the OTC.  Then he won the olympics, then he beat Sadulaev.  Tom Ryan has coached more world/olympic champions than those three combined.  Tom Brands got an equally heralded recruit in Spencer Lee, who seems to have stopped wrestling internationally since joining the program.  Metcalf was also very highly regarded as a recruit,  but was a very ineffective freestyler.  

So its settled. Mark Manning is the best coach in the country!

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1 minute ago, Billyhoyle said:

Sorry for not expanding on the comment.  Relative to the expectations he created from his dominance in folkstyle.  He looked like a fish out of water wrestling freestyle against international competition, and it is my opinion that he would be a world champion if he had focused on freestyle instead of folkstyle.  

He also had quite a bit less exposure to things like cadet worlds, the otc, or rotc's before he got to Iowa unlike many of todays studs. His only freestyle before Iowa was fargo. Do you think that may have played a part at all?

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Sorry for not expanding on the comment.  Relative to the expectations he created from his dominance in folkstyle.  He looked like a fish out of water wrestling freestyle against international competition, and it is my opinion that he would be a world champion if he had focused on freestyle instead of folkstyle.  
I mean....he did a lot of winning in Freestyle against a lot of high level wrestlers. He obviously never got it done at the world championships, but I think ineffective is a strongly inaccurate characterization brought on by your desire to defend Tom Ryan's coaching ability.

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7 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I mean....he did a lot of winning in Freestyle against a lot of high level wrestlers. He obviously never got it done at the world championships, but I think ineffective is a strongly inaccurate characterization brought on by your desire to defend Tom Ryan's coaching ability.

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He was really great at the beat the streets events, i’ll give you that. Whether you like it or not, wrestlers are judged on how they do at the premier tournament of the year. If a wrestler wins midlands or the scuffle but goes 0-2 at NCAAs, he had an unsuccessful year. Thomas Gilman had a better freestyle career than Metcalf.

 

And to further clarify I think Brands is an outstanding coach-one of the best in the country. Just not as good as Tom Ryan or Cael. 

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14 minutes ago, russelscout said:

He also had quite a bit less exposure to things like cadet worlds, the otc, or rotc's before he got to Iowa unlike many of todays studs. His only freestyle before Iowa was fargo. Do you think that may have played a part at all?

Spencer Lee was a multiple time age level world champion before going to Iowa. Now he doesn’t seem to even compete in freestyle. 

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He was really great at the beat the streets events, i’ll give you that. Whether you like it or not, wrestlers are judged on how they do at the premier tournament of the year. If a wrestler wins midlands or the scuffle but goes 0-2 at NCAAs, he had an unsuccessful year. Thomas Gilman had a better freestyle career than Metcalf.
 
And to further clarify I think Brands is an outstanding coach-one of the best in the country. Just not as good as Tom Ryan or Cael. 


Well, he also had great results at Tblisi and Yarygin events. Again, this seems like you want to defend Ryan. So if your logic holds true, does that mean you think Brands is a better NCAA coach due to his winning three team titles?

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10 minutes ago, VakAttack said:


 

 


Well, he also had great results at Tblisi and Yarygin events. Again, this seems like you want to defend Ryan. So if your logic holds true, does that mean you think Brands is a better NCAA coach due to his winning three team titles?

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He was better when he won them, but Ryan has been better in the 9 subsequent years.  Career wise, obviously Smith and Brands are ahead of Ryan, but that's not what the post I was replying to was about.  It's about whether Ryan should be replaced today,  and the answer is no.  

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He was better when he won them, but Ryan has been better in the 9 subsequent years.  Career wise, obviously Smith and Brands are ahead of Ryan, but that's not what the post I was replying to was about.  It's about whether Ryan should be replaced today,  and the answer is no.  
But you brought up a wrestler who stopped competing 4 years ago....

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5 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

But you brought up a wrestler who stopped competing 4 years ago....

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Yes, because Brands has had two recruits with pedigrees comparable to Snyder in his career:  Spencer Lee and Brent Metcalf (with Lee being more comparable bc of junior world titles).  Both exemplify that international success is no guarantee from being a top recruit and why I think you have to give Ryan credit for Snyder.  Do you really think Tom Brands is a better coach today than Tom Ryan? Even with the past 9 years of results?

Edited by Billyhoyle

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He’s had freshman champs but gets no credit for that. He’s had 3 and 4 time champs but gets no credit for that, just stay out of their way. World champs but...Olympic champs and medalists but....has three of the schools five big ten team titles (first since the 50’s) but.....it’s only national championship but.... has built one of the premiere programs in the country but....I mean how does the guy keep his job anyway???

seems to be a lot of not giving credit where credit is due around here. 

Edited by Lurker

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9 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Spencer Lee was a multiple time age level world champion before going to Iowa. Now he doesn’t seem to even compete in freestyle. 

You think injuries may have had anything to do with that at all? Plus hes going to try to make the Olympic team this year.

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Funny how a lot of people make up hypothetical theories to support that Ryan isn't a good coach - wrestler X would have won more in a different program or Wrestler Y would have won no matter where they were. The same could be said of any wrestler or program - would Mark Hall be a 3x champ right now if he were at Ok State? Would Spencer Lee have won no matter where he was?  Hypothetical arguments have no basis factually - just speculation - and the same argument can be made across the board. The fact remains, Ryan, based on team success, is the 2nd best coach over the past 5 years. You can say all you want about "what if" but those aren't facts based on data. I'm not even a fan of tOSU, but sometimes we can be blinded by facts based on our jealousy or dislike for a certain coach or program. If I had to predict,  I don't think he will be the 2nd best coach the next 5 years - but obviously nobody knows that for sure.

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3 hours ago, Lurker said:

He’s had freshman champs but gets no credit for that. He’s had 3 and 4 time champs but gets no credit for that, just stay out of their way. World champs but...Olympic champs and medalists but....has three of the schools five big ten team titles (first since the 50’s) but.....it’s only national championship but.... has built one of the premiere programs in the country but....I mean how does the guy keep his job anyway???

seems to be a lot of not giving credit where credit is due around here. 

I think Ryan is a good coach. I just dont like him and I think there are better coaches in the country. I dont blame Kerkvliet for thinking he would be better off somewhere else or not wanting to deal with Tom Ryans personality.

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2 minutes ago, russelscout said:

I think Ryan is a good coach. I just dont like him and I think there are better coaches in the country. I dont blame Kerkvliet for thinking he would be better off somewhere else or not wanting to deal with Tom Ryans personality.

I was under the impression that he was leaving because Snyder left - you know - his training partner and assistant coach - but you are saying he doesn't want to deal with Ryan's personality. Do you have a link to that quote by Kerkvliet? I would like to read that. 

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I think we are lucky to have such good Coaches who are good examples for the wrestlers in their programs.

NCAA, Olympic and World Champions who can actually roll around on the mat with the kids they recruit - that is something most sports do not have. Most coaches never actually spend time "in the sport" with the kids on their teams. Wrestling is pretty much unique in that respect.

The fact some of the coaches believe in the religious myths - if it works for them, why not? A lot of people do and somehow need the crutch. Some don't and that is fine as well. Crazy beliefs are all over the place but the fact is these Coaches are generally good men/women whose belief is in hard work and pushing for excellence. Somehow they have the gift of working with their athletes and helping them get better.

The Sport is in good hands with a lot of excellent coaches at every level.  From the great program that is Oklahoma State to Penn State now, all the high level programs are and have been pushed by Coaches who work at it and kids who buy into it. We all benefit.

Just wish J Robinson was still coaching - he's a Veteran.

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1 minute ago, Idaho said:

I was under the impression that he was leaving because Snyder left - you know - his training partner and assistant coach - but you are saying he doesn't want to deal with Ryan's personality. Do you have a link to that quote by Kerkvliet? I would like to read that. 

Read what I said again. I didnt quote anyone. 

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