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FLO's infatuation with Seth Gross

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14 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Wouldn't the season they competed in most recent to this season be weighted much more heavily than one from 4 years ago? I would think at this point his freshman year wouldn't even be considered.  As far as quality of competition, Gross did get 2nd in a very tough weight, and he did beat Micic handedly. I'm surprised most dont see that as a win over significant competition considering he beat Suriano last year, got hurt and still placed third in a very tough weight class. 

I don’t think previous seasons weigh heavily at all unless they need a tiebreaker.  But that’s going to be up to each individual voter. I also believe the criteria is past accomplishments, not lowest low points. Having said that, do I think getting caught in a cradle and pinned but winning the national championship, avenging that loss by major decision along the way, would hurt him more than 14 losses and a DNP season? No.  Again it’s past (career) accomplishments, not lowest low point and when did that low point occur? And when talking about quality of competition I don’t think they’re talking about a past season you didn’t win. As far as past accomplishments go (this of course for sake of argument say they both go unbeaten): One would be 3-1-1-1 with two unbeaten seasons, the other would be DNP-2-1-1 with one unbeaten season.  I don’t see how anyone can look at that objectively and say the second one ranks higher than the first.  Valencia has beaten everyone he has wrestled in college.  The only one to beat him twice is about to go 1-2-2-1.  Gross can’t come close to saying the same.  In my opinion it’s not even close in the past accomplishments section.  (Relative to the fact that at this point you’re splitting hairs to pick one over the other) 

 

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6 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

Slammin' Sammy is gonna win the Hodge as a freshman... whatchoualltalkinbout anyway?

Have actually thought that reading this thread but believe if he does it will almost be by default. I think if any of Hall, Cenzo, Zahid run the table it lands there. 

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52 minutes ago, Lurker said:

I don’t think previous seasons weigh heavily at all unless they need a tiebreaker.  But that’s going to be up to each individual voter. I also believe the criteria is past accomplishments, not lowest low points. Having said that, do I think getting caught in a cradle and pinned but winning the national championship, avenging that loss by major decision along the way, would hurt him more than 14 losses and a DNP season? No.  Again it’s past (career) accomplishments, not lowest low point and when did that low point occur? And when talking about quality of competition I don’t think they’re talking about a past season you didn’t win. As far as past accomplishments go (this of course for sake of argument say they both go unbeaten): One would be 3-1-1-1 with two unbeaten seasons, the other would be DNP-2-1-1 with one unbeaten season.  I don’t see how anyone can look at that objectively and say the second one ranks higher than the first.  Valencia has beaten everyone he has wrestled in college.  The only one to beat him twice is about to go 1-2-2-1.  Gross can’t come close to saying the same.  In my opinion it’s not even close in the past accomplishments section.  (Relative to the fact that at this point you’re splitting hairs to pick one over the other) 

 

I would love to hear how you think the Hodge criteria are weighted, and your reasoning behind why your conclusions.

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On 11/2/2019 at 9:28 PM, Billyhoyle said:

Except the Hodge considers bonus points as the #2 criterium and it doesn't always go to the best wrestler or wrestler with the most prior accomplishments because of this. All four of those wrestlers are previous NCAA champions and none of them is a potential 4X champ, so my guess is this upcoming year will likely be based on bonus points.  

  • Criterium = A criterium is a bike race consisting of several laps around a closed circuit, the length of each lap or circuit ranging from about 800 m to 10,000 m
  • Criteria: The standard singular form is criterion.
  • Dominant <> Dominate
  • Who <>  Whom
 
That ends my pedantry for this year.  Let's wrestle!!

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What is your point, that he shouldn't be in hodge contention because of his R-freshman season 4 years ago (where he was not at his optimal weight)? Last season he wrestled he had a perfect season at 133, with an 80% bonus rate in a loaded weight class, that's why they're high on him. I'll give you Lee and Valencia, but he is definitely better than Hall and Cenzo in terms of dominance. It's going to be between Lee, Gross and Valencia this year.

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53 minutes ago, jchapman said:

I would love to hear how you think the Hodge criteria are weighted, and your reasoning behind why your conclusions.

The criteria, as far as I know there isn’t a requirement as to how much weight each is given. Which is why I said in the post you quoted it’s up to each individual voter. This particular post was in regards specifically to the past accomplishments criteria, and I feel like I gave my reasoning in the post you quoted. 

Edited by Lurker

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On 11/2/2019 at 9:28 PM, Billyhoyle said:

Except the Hodge considers bonus points as the #2 criterium and it doesn't always go to the best wrestler or wrestler with the most prior accomplishments because of this. All four of those wrestlers are previous NCAA champions and none of them is a potential 4X champ, so my guess is this upcoming year will likely be based on bonus points.  

But the #2 criteria is not bonus points. It’s pins. And that’s important due to who the award is named after. 

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4 hours ago, TFBJR said:
  • Criterium = A criterium is a bike race consisting of several laps around a closed circuit, the length of each lap or circuit ranging from about 800 m to 10,000 m
  • Criteria: The standard singular form is criterion.
  • Dominant <> Dominate
  • Who <>  Whom
 
That ends my pedantry for this year.  Let's wrestle!!

Thanks! I knew it was different and just assumed it was based on Latin. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

The criteria, as far as I know there isn’t a requirement as to how much weight each is given. Which is why I said in the post you quoted it’s up to each individual voter. This particular post was in regards specifically to the past accomplishments criteria, and I feel like I gave my reasoning in the post you quoted. 

You said you didn't think previous seasons weighed heavily at all, save for breaking a tie.  What makes you think this?

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1 hour ago, jchapman said:

You said you didn't think previous seasons weighed heavily at all, save for breaking a tie.  What makes you think this?

I don’t really have anything to go on, just a hunch I guess?  Maybe a better way of putting it would be compared to the other criteria, this season is going to count for a lot more and past would be down on the list. For example if Gross had a completely dominant season and Cenzo took a couple losses but won it all, I don’t think Cenzo would be close to Gross in the running. But if they both had the same dominant seasons, his past accomplishments vs Gross’ might tilt it his way. 

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15 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Thanks! I knew it was different and just assumed it was based on Latin. 

No worries.  All in good spirits.   "Dominate" on University Tweets makes me crazy.  Especially Princeton and Rutgers.  

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9 hours ago, goheels1812 said:

For what it’s worth, no bonus for Gross tonight against Derek Spann of Buffalo. Flo has Spann ranked 13th, but he’s 3-3 on the year. Have to think those are matches where Gross needs at least a major to be a hodge contender.

Yep, it's over for Gross.  Did not major a ranked opponent in the first week of November.

Edited by jchapman

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6 hours ago, jchapman said:

Yep, it's over for Gross.  Did not major a ranked opponent in the first week of November.

Yea he is only 4-0 with a 75% bonus rate while beating two ranked opponents already all while spending his time preparing for the Bill Farrell and making 57 kg. 

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2 minutes ago, goheels1812 said:

I jumped the gun with a knee jerk reaction haha. I actually like Gross a lot and I’d like to see him when the hodge. I’ll take my lumps though. Continue on gentlemen. 

Hey man, appreciate you taking it in stride!  Often this board is so contentious that it's dangerous to post some good natured ribbing, we need less seriousness here (in the non troll variety) for sure.  Kudos...

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On 11/2/2019 at 10:34 AM, Frank_Rizzo said:

Jordan Kutler will beat Mark Hall this year.  Hall peaked his freshman year.  

Hall had a dominant win over Zahid last season... and we all know how good Zahid was last year coming off that amazing freestyle summer - bad take

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