Why did Tom Brands retire after 1996?

[mspart 153]

Yeah, that is true about Terry.  He wanted the yellow medal but got Bronze.   He was inconsolable saying that it proves Tom was better than him because Tom was an Olympic Champ and Terry was not.  But Terry has 3 world level medals (93, 95 World Champ, 2000 Oly Bronze) whereas Tom has 2 world level  medals (93 World Champ, 96 Oly Gold).   Terry came out of retirement and competed in the 1999 WTT's in Seattle.  I was there for that.  He bested Guerrero, I won't say handily, but Guerrero was no match for him.  Terry was good, real good.  Unfortunately for him, Brands was unable to go to 1999 WC's due to injury.  Guerrero went and took 7th. 

mspart

[MDogg 181]

1 hour ago, Jim L said:

Terry competed until 2000 and I think got Bronze.

would of they been at the same weight?

No even when Tom stopped competing Terry stayed at 58kgs for the 2000 games...Tom was up at 62kg

[WillieBoy 635]

On 11/5/2019 at 11:49 AM, jchapman said:

Koufax wasn't great until he got in the extremely pitcher friendly Chavez Ravine.  Great pitcher, yes.  Best ever, nope. But you did say arguably!

Coaching Great Casey Stengel was asked who he would want on the mound to win one game, final of World Series with the teams locked at 3-3. He said "give me the Jewish Kid". (Koufax)

[NJDan 436]

Koufax was the best, retired early due to injuries. Jim Brown, also the best, retired early, but to make movies.

It's hard to compare a wrestler, who made little or no money at the  time, with a  pro athlete, who has a great financial incentive to keep going.

 

Edited November 7 by NJDan
typo

[russelscout 1,032]

On 11/6/2019 at 11:58 AM, mspart said:

Terry came out of retirement and competed in the 1999 WTT's in Seattle.  I was there for that.  He bested Guerrero, I won't say handily, but Guerrero was no match for him.  Terry was good, real good.  Unfortunately for him, Brands was unable to go to 1999 WC's due to injury.

I always forget that he made it and didn't wrestle.

[russelscout 1,032]

35 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Jim Brown, also the best, retired early, but to make movies.

If you are going to include football players, then you have to include Barry Sanders who retired because he played for the Detroit Lions.

[Fishbane 106]

5 minutes ago, russelscout said:

If you are going to include football players, then you have to include Barry Sanders who retired because he played for the Detroit Lions.

Yeah but the NFL has all those rules to restrict player movement especially of elite players like the franchise tag.  You can get trapped by one team.  Baseball isn't like that though Koufax was before free agency hit the MLB.

[WillieBoy 635]

3 hours ago, NJDan said:

Koufax was the best, retired early due to injuries. Jim Brown, also the best, retired early, but to make movies.

It's hard to compare a wrestler, who made little or no money at the  time, with a  pro athlete, who has a great financial incentive to keep going.

 

Jim Brown was asking for more money from Cleveland and they did not want to cough it up. He had other options and took them - and had already announced he would not be playing after the season he was going to come in late due to a movie he was acting in. Art Modell told Brown and publicly announced he would be docked in pay for the practice and games missed - and basically called his bluff.

Brown finished he movie, did not play again and we have Jefferson in the movie The Dirty Dozen. Cleveland really screwed up in not dealing with him better as he had won the league Rushing title eight times in nine seasons. Don't know if it is true but supposedly he was never stopped for a loss in yardage - always at least made it back to the line of scrimmage.

[Cradle1 166]

On 11/7/2019 at 5:37 PM, WillieBoy said:

Jim Brown was asking for more money from Cleveland and they did not want to cough it up. He had other options and took them - and had already announced he would not be playing after the season he was going to come in late due to a movie he was acting in. Art Modell told Brown and publicly announced he would be docked in pay for the practice and games missed - and basically called his bluff.

Brown finished he movie, did not play again and we have Jefferson in the movie The Dirty Dozen. Cleveland really screwed up in not dealing with him better as he had won the league Rushing title eight times in nine seasons. Don't know if it is true but supposedly he was never stopped for a loss in yardage - always at least made it back to the line of scrimmage.

There’s no way that last part is true.

[mspart 153]

He is a legend for a reason!

mspart

[GockeS 245]

On 11/3/2019 at 8:05 PM, Lurker said:

Was hard to continue training, at the level to maintain best in the world, financially those days. 

Running wrestling camps back in those days... our clinicians were constantly on the phone during breaks setting up their next workout partner, and using the money they earned at the clinic to pay for the flight.

 

[jackwebster 45]

Regarding early retirement, does anyone else remember that Jamil Kelly interview in which he quoted John Smith as saying that he could have beat any US world/Olympic rep through 2000?

[jchapman 728]

1 hour ago, jackwebster said:

Regarding early retirement, does anyone else remember that Jamil Kelly interview in which he quoted John Smith as saying that he could have beat any US world/Olympic rep through 2000?

Rulon beats Karelin, but falls to John Smith!

[Alwayswrestling 149]

8 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Rulon beats Karelin, but falls to John Smith!

Are you really that dense?

[jchapman 728]

1 hour ago, Alwayswrestling said:

Are you really that dense?

I honestly think he would have made Rulon break the clinch.  As many have said, John was sneaky strong.

[jackwebster 45]

16 hours ago, jackwebster said:

Regarding early retirement, does anyone else remember that Jamil Kelly interview in which he quoted John Smith as saying that he could have beat any US world/Olympic rep through 2000?

Found it:

https://www.flowrestling.org/video/5083079-john-smiths-failed-2004-olympic-comeback

What do you think? How many more titles did Smith have in him? My guess: I'm confident of more medals but not confident of yellow ones.

[AHamilton 127]

On 11/9/2019 at 2:29 AM, Cradle1 said:

There’s no way that last part is true.

I believe it is true about Jim Brown.  Keep in mind that the average all-pro DT/DE weighed in the low 250s, while Brown was over 230 and faster and more athletic than almost anyone on the field.   He is going to win a lot of collisions, especially since he lined up pretty close to the LOS as a FB.

Brown was a specimen.  My understanding is they had to change the rules of lacrosse because of him, as he may be one of the most dominant college lax players of all time while at SU.

[KTG119 816]

re Brown - fwiw 1958 playoff game stats show he rushed 7 times for 8 yards. yes it's possible none of those were for a loss. but seems more likely at least once with those stats he would have been caught behind line.  

 

[jchapman 728]

7 minutes ago, KTG119 said:

re Brown - fwiw 1958 playoff game stats show he rushed 7 times for 8 yards. yes it's possible none of those were for a loss. but seems more likely at least once with those stats he would have been caught behind line.  

 

He also had a 20 yard run in that playoff game, which means he absolutely had negative yardage attempts.

[AHamilton 127]

43 minutes ago, jchapman said:

He also had a 20 yard run in that playoff game, which means he absolutely had negative yardage attempts.

Interesting.  Wonder if not counted in stats because it was a playoff?

[jchapman 728]

48 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

Interesting.  Wonder if not counted in stats because it was a playoff?

10/14/62 he had 14 rushes for a total of 11 yards.  It's possible that some of those carries were for 0 yards, but likely that at least one was for negative yards.

He also had nine regular season games in his career where he ended up with negative receiving yardage, meaning he got stopped behind the line of scrimmage a minimum of nine times.

[AHamilton 127]

16 minutes ago, jchapman said:

10/14/62 he had 14 rushes for a total of 11 yards.  It's possible that some of those carries were for 0 yards, but likely that at least one was for negative yards.

He also had nine regular season games in his career where he ended up with negative receiving yardage, meaning he got stopped behind the line of scrimmage a minimum of nine times.

OK.  Guess you win. I had heard this before. Apparent urban myth, which I considered possible due the the freak size and athletic ability of Brown.

[jchapman 728]

33 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

OK.  Guess you win. I had heard this before. Apparent urban myth, which I considered possible due the the freak size and athletic ability of Brown.

Not looking to win, just interested in the topic.

[Cradle1 166]

On 11/14/2019 at 9:16 AM, AHamilton said:

I believe it is true about Jim Brown.  Keep in mind that the average all-pro DT/DE weighed in the low 250s, while Brown was over 230 and faster and more athletic than almost anyone on the field.   He is going to win a lot of collisions, especially since he lined up pretty close to the LOS as a FB.

Brown was a specimen.  My understanding is they had to change the rules of lacrosse because of him, as he may be one of the most dominant college lax players of all time while at SU.

 Come on man, I’m no expert on football but I know that for a running back to carry the ball even 20 times in a single game without suffering a single loss is almost statistically impossible- much less to never suffer a loss in his career.

 This would be like if I posted that Johnny Unitas was never sacked in his entire career or that Michael Jordan  never missed a free throw.

[AHamilton 127]

33 minutes ago, Cradle1 said:

 Come on man, I’m no expert on football but I know that for a running back to carry the ball even 20 times in a single game without suffering a single loss is almost statistically impossible- much less to never suffer a loss in his career.

 This would be like if I posted that Johnny Unitas was never sacked in his entire career or that Michael Jordan  never missed a free throw.

Come on man...I had heard it more than once from multiple sources. Also, I have seen Jordan miss free throws and seen clips of Johnny U being sacked.