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Opening weekend! What did we learn?

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Fun first weekend, with more higher level matchups than usual! What did we learn?

PSU

Beard has some work to do, although he showed he is at a minimum around qualifier level. Good not great start for him. 
  
Starcocci is going to a beast. He proved to be a dark horse AA type guy. Excited to see him against better competition 

 Ohio State

lineup is still in question at 125, 133, 165, 174 and 184. 
 

Rocky - looked fine but took 2 losses. He isn’t AA ready yet, but he is at a minimum a qualifier. Ohio State has this issue around these weights right now. One or two guys have to break out soon or they won’t contend for titles. They have 4 or 5 that could break out though. 
  
Smith looked bad inhis first match, but came back strong. He is a dark horse AA but losses like that aren’t good for his confidence or seeding. 
  
romero looked better than expected. 
 

Kharchla is top 10. Maybe higher. It’s a tough call on pulling a shirt when you have a top 15 guy ahead of him. I assume they will see how Smith, Jordan and Romero look through Jan before making a decision

Hoffman looked bad. I don’t know if it’s the weight, but man. Ohio State needs some points here. Maybe Rocky is a better option for now? Could help push Hoffman. We all n ow he has the potential 

Moore did Moore things. Looked vulnerable but still won. 
 

Kinner looks solid at 133. He or Decatur would be solid. 
  
malik wrestles weirdly. Not sure what is going on there. He beat a solid qualifier, but on the backside got smashed from top twice. 
 

Sasso is a title contender. Can’t wait to see him vs top 5 guys. He is even better than anticipated. 
 

Pletcher took out #1 Demas. Pletcher will place anywhere from 5th to 1st, and we won’t be confident until after NCAAs. Great win but we didn’t learn much. 
  
Oklahoma

WOW. Roselli is doing an excellent job. They are going to put 2 or 3 guys on the podium this year. Woodley seems to be coming into his own. I’m happy for him. Good guy. 
 

Stanford

man they are going to be good at 165 and 141. Title contenders in both. 
  
Wisconsin

Fine performance, but as many expected they are still vulnerable. Their problem is, even at weights where they are good, the can lose (141, 149, 184) and where they are weak, they are really weak (125, 157, 174, 197). They need AAs from at least 2 from those 7 to make the podium. 
 

Gross - 16-25 points

Hilger - 10-18 points 

Wick - 10-20 points 

That is 36-63 points they need around 80 to make the podium. Doable but they need a guy like Cole Martin to jump levels or get a perfect draw. 
 

What else? Which freshman looked good?

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1. Northern Colorado may be the best team in the Mountains. 

2. Finger Lakes has some good Cornell redshirts.

3. Ohio State has some young studs, but also some question marks. 

4. Along with Starocci, Joe Lee looks pretty good. He's not Nolf, Nickal or Zain type, but he has added some strength and looks to have developed a style. No longer shooting from space but more close offense from ties. 

5. I think Oklahoma is much improved. Not just the Dom Demas show, but look at some other guys like Jacob Woodley. 

That's all I got. 

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Good rundown of a lot of the action that took place.  I would just say this--let's pump the breaks a little on taking too much away from the first weekend. 

I mostly watched the MSU open, so I would add the following:

125) Brock Hudkins (Indiana)
Transfer from NIU (I had to look that up), had himself a weekend.  Knocked off two ranked wrestlers as well as Coliaocco to take the title.  Looks to be a potential AA threat out of nowhere. 

157) Kendall Coleman (Purdue)
Looking like the best Purdue freshman I can remember, what a coming out party.  Wins over: #6 Barone, #22 Lewan (who I think most agree will be ranked higher), #8 Artalona.  

197) Jake Woodley (Oklahoma)
His results were a bit puzzling last year after putting together a nice redshirt year.  He looks like he's putting it all together, which seems to have started with his U23 run.  197 is starting to get a little crowded in the top 8, whereas 174 and 184 look pretty soft.  

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1 hour ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Good rundown of a lot of the action that took place.  I would just say this--let's pump the breaks a little on taking too much away from the first weekend. 

I mostly watched the MSU open, so I would add the following:

125) Brock Hudkins (Indiana)
Transfer from NIU (I had to look that up), had himself a weekend.  Knocked off two ranked wrestlers as well as Coliaocco to take the title.  Looks to be a potential AA threat out of nowhere. 

157) Kendall Coleman (Purdue)
Looking like the best Purdue freshman I can remember, what a coming out party.  Wins over: #6 Barone, #22 Lewan (who I think most agree will be ranked higher), #8 Artalona.  

197) Jake Woodley (Oklahoma)
His results were a bit puzzling last year after putting together a nice redshirt year.  He looks like he's putting it all together, which seems to have started with his U23 run.  197 is starting to get a little crowded in the top 8, whereas 174 and 184 look pretty soft.  

Hudkins isn't exactly out of nowhere.  He is a 2x national qualifier and now is in the room with Angel, I would expect a bit of a bump in his performance.

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1 hour ago, Bozak2018 said:

Hudkins isn't exactly out of nowhere.  He is a 2x national qualifier and now is in the room with Angel, I would expect a bit of a bump in his performance.

To be fair, he has never beaten an AA. His best win is probably over Hildebrandt, which he has now done 3 times. 

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4 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

I just, 'learned' from another site that Heinselman is red shirting and Decatur made the cut and will be the starting 125 this season. WOW!!!

FRL had hinted at this already on at bbn least 2 shows.

I was surprised it was Kinner who made the drop to 133 is all.

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How did Quincy Monday look at the Princeton Open? I didn’t see the matches but the scores make it look like he cruised his way into the finals and had a tough grinder of a match in the final.

Also wondering if Glory looks any different from last season. Hard to tell this early from one tournament, I know, but I’m wondering if he’s closing the gap with Vito.

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3 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

1. Northern Colorado may be the best team in the Mountains. 

2. Finger Lakes has some good Cornell redshirts.

3. Ohio State has some young studs, but also some question marks. 

4. Along with Starocci, Joe Lee looks pretty good. He's not Nolf, Nickal or Zain type, but he has added some strength and looks to have developed a style. No longer shooting from space but more close offense from ties. 

5. I think Oklahoma is much improved. Not just the Dom Demas show, but look at some other guys like Jacob Woodley. 

That's all I got. 

Yes, Starocci looked great. Not just on the mat, but physically. He shed the baby fat he always carried and looks extremely fit. He has a high ceiling and will be a top 4 contender as soon as he gets on the mat. Joe Lee did impress as well. However, Beard was not looking as strong. He had no answer from the bottom for the leg ride. Even after almost getting turned with the half from that position, he allowed himself to be exposed with the same half later. From the top, he had little offense and twice found himself hanging onto the legs, costing him a point. From neutral he was clearly superior. His takedown he gave up was from being a little over-aggressive and sloppy. Until he develops a top-game, he'd be best served to catch and release. He showed none of his cross wrist tilt. It would be interesting to see how he is stacking up against Conel in the room. I was hoping to see more after a grey shirt year.

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2 minutes ago, 82bordeaux said:

Yes, Starocci looked great. Not just on the mat, but physically. He shed the baby fat he always carried and looks extremely fit. He has a high ceiling and will be a top 4 contender as soon as he gets on the mat. Joe Lee did impress as well. However, Beard was not looking as strong. He had no answer from the bottom for the leg ride. Even after almost getting turned with the half from that position, he allowed himself to be exposed with the same half later. From the top, he had little offense and twice found himself hanging onto the legs, costing him a point. From neutral he was clearly superior. His takedown he gave up was from being a little over-aggressive and sloppy. Until he develops a top-game, he'd be best served to catch and release. He showed none of his cross wrist tilt. It would be interesting to see how he is stacking up against Conel in the room. I was hoping to see more after a grey shirt year.

 

The thing about Beard that is puzzling is that he got to that cross wrist tilt on everyone last year. That doesn't just disappear, so while this could be wrong  I am thinking he isn't in 100% condition yet for this year. Him having no answer from bottom was troubling. Got to fight to not let boots come in. 

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EIWA: Princeton open and Wisc/Fresno duals in San Diego

Princeton seemed to lose a step from last year.  

Cornell (FLWC) recruiting class lives up to the hype with the NJ pipeline.

Columbia's Kazmir is much improved and can be seeded top 2 or 3 at EIWAs.    

Lehigh has some work to do solidifying their lineup if they want to win EIWAs.  Hoffman lost some momentum from freestyle when he beat kolodzik to lose by MD at the OPEN.  Weiler doesn't look as good at 184 than he did at 197, losing to an Army backup who won the title at 184.  

Army is legitimately a frontrunner for the EIWA title and is DEEP at several weights.  Lehigh Dual will be highly anticipated by EIWA fans and is a LATE season dual with high conf seeding implications.  Army seems to have more options to play with the lineup than Lehigh has (141, 157, 165, 184, 197).  Army back-ups at those weights can win against lehigh starters and are insurance in case Army Starters are injured.  If it comes to back-up v back-up at those weights due to unforeseen circumstances, Army has the edge at those weights.         

 

Edited by Cptafw164

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Army is dangerous for anyone to dual and at EIWAs. It’s super impressive considering how tough recruitment is. They basically can’t get anyone who isn’t already pretty interested in joining the military. It is also extremely difficult to get into and is a different process to most. One might even argue it is more difficult than Princeton (not academically, but they look for some crazy other extra curriculars too). There just isn’t a lot of flex there. 

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16 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

 

The thing about Beard that is puzzling is that he got to that cross wrist tilt on everyone last year. That doesn't just disappear, so while this could be wrong  I am thinking he isn't in 100% condition yet for this year. Him having no answer from bottom was troubling. Got to fight to not let boots come in. 

Another thing to remember is scouting, it's huge from year one to year two.  Often true freshman (redshirting or otherwise) come in and look unstoppable with a specific turn on top or takedown, but once the word is out people tend to take that away.   Bulsak wrestled Beard last year and got to experience the cross wrist first hand, I'm guessing he was ready for it this time around.   A little too simplistic for Beard and this one tourney, but in general scouting young collegiates is a much bigger factor than people give it credit for.  You have to adapt, which I'm sure Beard will...

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1 minute ago, Housebuye said:

Army is dangerous for anyone to dual and at EIWAs. It’s super impressive considering how tough recruitment is. They basically can’t get anyone who isn’t already pretty interested in joining the military. It is also extremely difficult to get into and is a different process to most. One might even argue it is more difficult than Princeton (not academically, but they look for some crazy other extra curriculars too). There just isn’t a lot of flex there. 

You would be surprised.  The Academies are pretty popular because of the nature of the job market nowadays.  Many young men and women are graduating college with debt and have to go on the job search living with their parents for 3-5 years before they can get out on their own.  There is nothing inherently WRONG with that, it is a smart way to save some money.  However, upon graduating an academy, you have a career right in front of you.  if you are not dead set on making the military a career, you are basically skipping that 3-5 year part.  

The biggest thing the academies have to compete with is the RTCs.  The team needs donor funding to pay those salaries.  The Lehigh Valley RTC has some STUDS, and it is hard to get elite recruits who want to wrestle internationally while in College as opposed to waiting for All-Army/WCAP once they graduate.  

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Besides Robles his senior year, how many guys have really made their living off the cross wrist tilt? I'm fairly sure I'll learn or be reminded of some great examples, but my quick thought is a fair amount of Pa guys who killed with that move in HS 'under achieved' in college. and yeah I know a lot more goes into succeeding or not in college than losing your go to top move and I'm not saying Beard is going to be a bust.   

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Thoughts from Southeast Open

Missouri looked really sharp as a team. Mauller didn’t face any high level competition, but sometimes you see a guy on the mat and just say “wow” regardless of who he’s facing. That’s how I felt watching Maullers matches. To start the season he looked like an absolute force. I also though Allan Hart looked really good too. He kind of has that John Erneste body type where he’s tall and you wonder how in the world he’s making 133. That funky body type and style can really give other good wrestlers a hard time, just like Erneste was able to for years.

 

Campbell stole the show at the southeast open. They had 4 individual champs and every time you saw an orange singlet on the mat you knew it was going to be a battle. I can’t say enough good things for what Kolat is doing with that program. Gonser and Heil are legit AA threats. Quentin Perez at 165 smashed his way through the tournament. The camels are a serious team this year from top to bottom. 

Edited by goheels1812

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2 minutes ago, goheels1812 said:

Thoughts from Southeast Open

.Campbell stole the show at the southeast open. They had 4 individual champs and every time you saw an orange singlet on the mat you knew it was going to be a battle. I can’t say enough good things for what Kolat is doing with that program. Gonser and Heil are legit AA threats. Quentin Perez at 165 smashed his way through the tournament. The camels are a serious team this year from top to bottom. 

Agreed.  They were solid and performed really well.  

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2 hours ago, Bozak2018 said:

Hudkins isn't exactly out of nowhere.  He is a 2x national qualifier and now is in the room with Angel, I would expect a bit of a bump in his performance.

You're right about that, I guess he just never made it onto my personal radar, and he didn't compete last year.  I remembered the name but seeing him pop up at Indiana and win the tournament was a definite surprise to me.  

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42 minutes ago, KTG119 said:

Besides Robles his senior year, how many guys have really made their living off the cross wrist tilt? I'm fairly sure I'll learn or be reminded of some great examples, but my quick thought is a fair amount of Pa guys who killed with that move in HS 'under achieved' in college. and yeah I know a lot more goes into succeeding or not in college than losing your go to top move and I'm not saying Beard is going to be a bust.   

Gregor Gillespie is one.  David Taylor did the cross wrist tilt as a secondary off the claw tilt. I think it is the most prevalent method of turning an individual for exposures in college today (not counting pinning combos).  Kyle Shoop is another one.  However, the turk is making a comeback, although it is more of a transition move from a double leg and the turk is modified by utilizing the twist an opponent creates with their legs belly down after a double leg takedown.     

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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

 

The thing about Beard that is puzzling is that he got to that cross wrist tilt on everyone last year. That doesn't just disappear, so while this could be wrong  I am thinking he isn't in 100% condition yet for this year. Him having no answer from bottom was troubling. Got to fight to not let boots come in. 

Agreed. He looked gassed the entire 3rd. He looked to the corner at the beginning of the period to see if he should take bottom. His face didn't look like he wanted to be there.

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1 hour ago, KTG119 said:

Besides Robles his senior year, how many guys have really made their living off the cross wrist tilt? I'm fairly sure I'll learn or be reminded of some great examples, but my quick thought is a fair amount of Pa guys who killed with that move in HS 'under achieved' in college. and yeah I know a lot more goes into succeeding or not in college than losing your go to top move and I'm not saying Beard is going to be a bust.   

Nahshon Garrett used it to great effect throughout his college years.

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Theorius Robison (freshman) had a good match with Montorie Bridges in the Finals of the Cowboy open (I won’t give any spoilers).

I think Aragona has a lot of potential and will particularly benefit working with Suriano as I saw similarities in their styles. 

Andrew Fogarty looked a bit flatter than I anticipated but still got the job done. 
 

33-74 for Rutgers has caught my attention overall. 
 

Found the big names on Wisconsin’s roster fun to follow 

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Just now, Mad Santa said:

Theorius Robison (freshman) had a good match with Montorie Bridges in the Finals of the Cowboy open (I won’t give any spoilers).

I think Aragona has a lot of potential and will particularly benefit working with Suriano as I saw similarities in their styles. 

Andrew Fogarty looked a bit flatter than I anticipated but still got the job done. 
 

33-74 for Rutgers has caught my attention overall. 
 

Found the big names on Wisconsin’s roster fun to follow 

Loved his post match celebartion. 

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Things we (I) learned (about tOSU):

* Malik needs to Redshirt.

* Kinner at 133 for tOSU is looking better and better. 

* Pletcher's performance against Eierman in FS this summer wasn't a fluke, and he took out a VERY dangerous Demas.  Pletch now must be considered as a NC contender (which I didn't think he would be)

* Sasso is the REAL DEAL (until proven otherwise)

* 157 is problematic for the Buckeyes

* Kharchla should redshirt.  Sure, he won the MSU open, but the Top 10 at 165 is BRUTAL.  E. Smith should start and get comfy at 165, because...

* Romero at 174 looks to be a good fit!

* Hoffman looks like he has come down with a case of the HEW

* Kollin Moore smashes people, and then has flukey moments.  Woodley is good, but Kollin should have beaten him by a few takedowns.

* Traub starting for tOSU wouldn't be a bad thing.  I hope he has his chance, allowing Chase to Redshirt.  

Things we (I) learned (everyone else):

* Beard is good, but probably only Top 10-20 good.  Conel will be this year's starter

* Joe Lee is good, but yet another year he'll have to wait.

* Starocci is good, but not on the same level as the rest of the true freshman that have come into that room.  (i.e. Cenzo, Nolf, Hall, Bo, RBY, Zain, etc.)

* Wisconsin has good individuals (i.e. Gross), but as a team, still not there.  They might be Top 10... might.

* Alirez is going to be a good one.

* Pluto is no longer a planet... but rather, a planetoid.

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