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Bill Farrell Discussion Thread

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My thoughts that I know you are all waiting for, lol.

57 - It's like people who root for a football team and think everything is great when the opponents kicker misses a last-second field goal. Gross doesn't get that two at the end on a silly move by Suriano and I doubt everybody's going crazy about him. I especially don't know about him with 2 day scratch weight. I don't think Suriano has the offense. He has plenty against people who are overmatched but in any type of big match it's always like pulling teeth to get him to even take a shot.  He's just too tentative right now. As far as Spencer Lee goes, I just don't know what to think. Everybody says that NCAA's he'll be ready but aren't there a few people out there like me who thought had Rivera gotten by Mueller that Lee was a decided underdog in the finals? I think he was very fortunate that Rivera was probably looking by Mueller. Still I'll take either him, Fix or Gilman although at the present I don't think any of them have elite offense.

65 - Just like Housebye said, Oliver's been out of school forever and everybody still talks about he's our best rep. I just don't see it or understand. He certainly can win  but  I don't get where  everybody thinks  he's our number one bet for the weight. I happen to like Frank but is it just me or does every match that he loses seem like there's always something going on between him and the other wrestler or him and the officials or combination of the two. There's always seems to be a fight and it can't always be the other guy.

74 - Imar, Nolf along with Dake and JB. I don't think Cenzo will be a factor this Olympics and maybe ever.

86 - I don't think any of the guys there are in a league with a healthy Taylor or Cox. I was glad to see Martin do well.

97 - Many people on here have thought that Snyder might need a little more functional strength and a little less powerlifting in his arsenal and I agreed. I thought he looked noticeably thinner. Was it just me or did anybody else I think the same? He's so far ahead of anybody not named J'den at 97 it's not even funny.

125 - I'm starting to worry about Gable. It's always seems to me like he's just not highly motivated. He can turn it on when he has to but doesn't always do so, only had step outs in the final and eventually it comes back to bite him as it did with Cassar last year. I still think it's him and Gwiz but but he can beat some guys a lot worse than he does but he seems to coast. Same with the really close match he had in the cadet world's years ago against the Azerbaijani. He just doesn't have the motor going all the time.

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7 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

My thoughts that I know you are all waiting for, lol.

FINALLY!!!!!!!
Loved the whole thing. 
On Gable though.... he does give a little "Superstar" vibe where he thinks he's too cool for school. I think he is the next Pico, where a few years from now we say "Man he could be doing things for our world teams if he wasnt fighting". I think he needs the fame and the show, and we just don't have it in wrestling like the bright lights of the UFC...  he is however as good as it gets and a focused "Full Go" Gable  is our rep 10x outta 10...  Anyways thanks for the write up!  #Cheers

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Okay, toons. As promised.  My take.  Take it or leave it.

-57-

Gross huh?  Yes. Gross looked Gross.  As the day went on he looked less Gross and Gross did Gross things.  He impressed and silenced the doubters.  I will say that while Suriano pushed the action, he did nothing in the form of offense.  Gross stiff-armed him the entire time, and in the waning seconds he earned the win.  I expect Suriano to pull the trigger more next time.  A few things this does: It allows Gross to focus on 133lbs for NCAAs without having to worry about winning(I know he will be expecting to, and whatnot, BUT he may put a prime focus on peaking for the OTT's which are two weeks later).  I am excited to see this version of Gross, even if it is disturbing to watch him.  Can he make two day morning of weigh-ins?  I don't know.  I stand by the initial statement that he had nothing for Suriano.  Suriano just had less for him.  All of this being said, Gross is immediately a contender in my mind.

Suriano and NATO still need to qualify, so expect them at the US Open.  I expect both of them to adjust accordingly for Gross.  NATO is better than that techfall showed.  Garrett left a lot to be desired.  He looked big, yet average.  Wasn't pulling the trigger on that offense and was getting beaten like a truck by Suriano the entire match.  What happened to Cruz?  Got leveled by Gross then leveled by Garrett(his only exceptional match of the day imho).

Surprise of the day: I've got two of them.  I rather expected Clark and Gross to have reverse performances.  Gross excelled and Clark more or less faded.  Forever a tweener?  I hope not.  The second thing is Zane Richards.  He was a gamer all day on toughness alone.  I was very impressed.  I was happy to be surprised by both of these.

-65-

Oliver was clearly the best wrestler here.  The scores with both GHulk and McKenna were closer than the matches were.  Henderson looked great as did McKenna.  I was very happy to see that fire with McKenna after missing last year and that tech over Heil must have been so gratifying for him.  I expect all four of these gents to have a say in who represents us come OTTs.

The US Open is going to be absolutely insane.  Everyone, save for Oliver and Retherford, still need to qualify and only the top five(5) qualify.  Styles make matches, and there are still toons who can win on one dimensional wrestling and upset folks(thinking Whitford, Ness, Lizak).  Speaking of Heil?  He absolutely destroyed who he should have, but got demolished against McKenna and after the first period against Meredith(that surprised me).  Shnaulty and Eierman will be here come US Open, too.  Add that in and the entire Tier 3 is massive and fighting for the final spot at the US Open(yes I am penciling in GHulk, Henderson, McKenna, and Johnny D as favorites for 4 of 5 of the spots).

Surprise of the day: McKenna separating himself from the 3rd tier and inserting himself in the 2nd tier.  I had high hopes, but wasn't sure.

-74-

First off... damn.  Nolf is so freaking good.  After Cenzo showed he was a step ahead of Lewis, Nolf showed he was three ahead of Cenzo.  That knee, though.  As much as it upset me to see him not let Cenzo have his go against IMar(who was also injurred-Nolf didn't know that then), it upsets me more that we may not see the best Nolf possible come OTTs.  Being NLWC too?  We won't know what the problem is, truthfully, however what we did learn is that Nolf was clearly better than everyone not named IMar, and we don't know how that truly would have been had they been healthy.

Another thing we've learned? Styles make matches.  I don't think Massa will ever beat Lewis or Nolf(healthy) right now.  He can beat everyone else that was in the field, though.  I still have high hopes for him, and hope he proves me wrong on the Lewis/Nolf deduction.  Also Lewis showed a mental break, like McKenna-Heil of past or Martin-Brooks/Downey.  Was just shocking to see him not... care... in the 3rd/4th match against Kulch.

Surprise: Nolf not allowing a single point all day.  Even after injury to Cenzo, Cenzo could not score.  He may have jumped levels and we may never get to see to what level that was with his injury.

-86-

Ringer showed he has the talent and strength, however he did not have world class power at 86.  He needs time to grow into the weight a bit more, and he'll be able to.  Martin had a brain-fart again.  He showed he had the talent to compete with Ringer, absolutely.

Surprise?  Pfarr.  His length, had he made it to the finals, would have been something to see against Ringer.  He has entrenched himself in the 3rd tier at 86kg and I am excited to see the US Open with him in the field.

-97-

Wasn't fair.  Macch earned the bid, however nobody on Snyder's side of the bracket had a realistic shot to earn the bid.  A true 2nd would have been appropriate here and Zillmer-Macch have both showen that coming up from 92 they are immediate Tier 3 threats by besting one of the most consistent 97kg tier 3 gents in Waltz.

Snyder was Snyder and showed he was willing to put on a show.  That was fun to watch.  He was clearly a talent above the rest and the two 92 kegger gents who got 2nd/3rd now see why he is still a legit world title contended.

Surprise?  I have been very high on ZIllmer and Macch, however I didn't expect them both not look vulnerable to anyone other than Snyder.  I expected Waltz/(other 97kg fellars) to show why weight classes are a thing.

-125-

Gable did Gable things.  He showed that despite whatever distractions may be there, he is still here and here to stay.  I don't expect anyone aside for Gwiz to be able to stop him come OTT.

Bradley is getting up there on the mileage however he is still clearly a Tier 2 heavyweight for us.  Nobody else really showed they'll be there in contention come trials.

Surprise: Gable. He doesn't appear to have missed a step.  Very satisfied with that.

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Most surprising bouts of Farrell:

Gross/Suriano—-I expected Gross to win easily.

Garrett/Suriano—I expected tight bout.

JO/Merideth—-Did not expect total domination. Thought Merideth would push him at least a little, but he had nothing for JO.


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48 minutes ago, Crash said:

Most surprising bouts of Farrell:

Gross/Suriano—-I expected Gross to win easily.

Garrett/Suriano—I expected tight bout.

JO/Merideth—-Did not expect total domination. Thought Merideth would push him at least a little, but he had nothing for JO.


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Meredith hasn't shown much improvement on the senior level yet. He is lower 3rd tier, imo.

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Meredith hasn't shown much improvement on the senior level yet. He is lower 3rd tier, imo.
Yeah I dont see him being that effective, he's a tough guy just doesnt have a good style for free. But..... Heil's shown a good wrestler with even the worst style can adapt ....somewhat, maybe I'm short selling Meredith as well.

He just cant prevent and get takedowns. His scramble ability was such a solid crutch in folk and its just not the same in free and he appears to still not have "clean" takedowns. We will see how he advances with experience.

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1 hour ago, spladle08 said:

Yeah I dont see him being that effective, he's a tough guy just doesnt have a good style for free. But..... Heil's shown a good wrestler with even the worst style can adapt ....somewhat, maybe I'm short selling Meredith as well.

He just cant prevent and get takedowns. His scramble ability was such a solid crutch in folk and its just not the same in free and he appears to still not have "clean" takedowns. We will see how he advances with experience.

He looked good when he beat Heil. He’s just a bit small for the weight imo. Should continue and try to win 61kg spot next year. Same for McKenna. This year just practice. 

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1 minute ago, AnklePicker said:

He looked good when he beat Heil. He’s just a bit small for the weight imo. Should continue and try to win 61kg spot next year. Same for McKenna. This year just practice. 

Whoa whoa whoa... can he make 134? He's not a tiny guy, if so yeah I think he would be right there with all of em
But yeah I'm not seeing him as any more than an entrant (at this point) at 65kg
 mind you, I think he is a talent.  But, I don't know if his previous style is conducive to freestyle success vs the domestically elite, much less the world elite. 

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6 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

Let’s say he can possibly make it...what chances would you give him to make the team at 61 vs 65kg?  If your chances are that much better is it worth the cut?  If Gross can make 57...

Meredith vs Graff/Colon/Nashon 
Meredith vs Zain/Yainni/Frank/JO

Seems like a no contest. If he is to compete for years to come, either bulking into that 70kg division or shrinking down, seems to be his best bet. The olympic weights are too hard. 

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5 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

Meredith vs Graff/Colon/Nashon 
Meredith vs Zain/Yainni/Frank/JO

Seems like a no contest. If he is to compete for years to come, either bulking into that 70kg division or shrinking down, seems to be his best bet. The olympic weights are too hard. 

You have to respect the unknown that we've never seen him wrestle below 141. At least not since he started coming into his own in college. He already has a very low body fat percentage. He is a true tweener. At Bryn least his frame is built for an Oly weight.

At least he isn't like Pantaleo. I honestly believe he should have gone 74kg this next freestyle season and just given it hell. His optimum weight is clearly 70kg.

Edited by nhs67
Fat fingers...

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You have to respect the unknown that we've never seen him wrestle below 141. At least not since he started coming into his own in college. He already has a very low body fat percentage. He is a true tweener. At Bryn least his frame is built for an Oly weight.
At least he isn't like Pantaleo. I honestly believe he should have gone 74kg this next freestyle season and just given it hell. His optimum weight is clearly 70kg.
I was just having a little tiff in a different group about the lack of tween success.
They were trying to argue its clear right now at 74kg James Green is the #3.

I was like hey, im not betting against him domestically at 70kg but outside of his own little slice of heaven (down or up) im not projecting top 5 results. Same with Graff, Colon, Deakin lol literally anyone at a non olympic weight not named
Cox, Dake, Valencia, Ringer, Nickel, who am i missing.... I mean technically Gross was at a non olympic weight last year, a top 5 finish from him wouldnt be surprising.
I wish they were doing the Olympics year World again. Guys spending a year making a weight they dont have a shot at just feels weird.

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3 hours ago, spladle08 said:

I was just having a little tiff in a different group about the lack of tween success.
They were trying to argue its clear right now at 74kg James Green is the #3.

I was like hey, im not betting against him domestically at 70kg but outside of his own little slice of heaven (down or up) im not projecting top 5 results. Same with Graff, Colon, Deakin lol literally anyone at a non olympic weight not named
Cox, Dake, Valencia, Ringer, Nickel, who am i missing.... I mean technically Gross was at a non olympic weight last year, a top 5 finish from him wouldnt be surprising.
I wish they were doing the Olympics year World again. Guys spending a year making a weight they dont have a shot at just feels weird.

They are hosting a non-Olympic weight Worlds next year, aren't they?  I thought I heard confirmation during this year's Worlds, but maybe I'm mistaken.

But yeah, seems like a crazy commitment (at least dropping to an Oly weight) when you know you're not even going to make the national team next year.  I imagine they must believe they have a legit shot, but from the outside looking in, it's hard to see why.

Nolf and Dieringer moving up makes a lot more sense, at least to me.

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9 hours ago, spladle08 said:

I was just having a little tiff in a different group about the lack of tween success.
They were trying to argue its clear right now at 74kg James Green is the #3.

I was like hey, im not betting against him domestically at 70kg but outside of his own little slice of heaven (down or up) im not projecting top 5 results. Same with Graff, Colon, Deakin lol literally anyone at a non olympic weight not named
Cox, Dake, Valencia, Ringer, Nickel, who am i missing.... I mean technically Gross was at a non olympic weight last year, a top 5 finish from him wouldnt be surprising.
I wish they were doing the Olympics year World again. Guys spending a year making a weight they dont have a shot at just feels weird.

Holding out on me?

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Holding out on me?
Hahah. Naw it was just one of those 101 facebook groups, where 90% of the chat is
"I support this wrestler blindly becahse he is from my state/college/Flo Told me to,"

But occasionally I see one so outrageous I gotta say, "Not so fast" in my Lee Corso voice.

I basically live here during my downtime, the opinions are generally more level headed than anywhere else.

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On 11/18/2019 at 7:37 PM, nhs67 said:

 

-97-

Wasn't fair.  Macch earned the bid, however nobody on Snyder's side of the bracket had a realistic shot to earn the bid.  A true 2nd would have been appropriate here

agreed. needed a true second contingency for this or if, say, garrett won 55 (or any non-American won their weight).

Edited by ugarte

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On 11/18/2019 at 7:28 PM, Crash said:

JO/Merideth—-Did not expect total domination. Thought Merideth would push him at least a little, but he had nothing for JO.

Im kind of surprised by this opinion. Did Meredith do much on the international scene in college? I dont remember seeing him at all, and he never seemed dominant enough or had a style that you would associate with immediate success in freestyle. 

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5 hours ago, russelscout said:

Im kind of surprised by this opinion. Did Meredith do much on the international scene in college? I dont remember seeing him at all, and he never seemed dominant enough or had a style that you would associate with immediate success in freestyle. 

No.

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I"m a bit surprised at Meredith also.  Can hang with the best of them in folkstyle but just doesn't seem like he's transitioned very well to freestyle.  I want to think that he'll continue to improve training with the guys at the NJRTC but he's got his work cut out for him.  I would really like to see him do well.

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Meredith wasn’t on another level in folkstyle.  He was great but didn’t separate.  And he was wrestling college guys.  He was no Zain R. or JO or even Frank.  And those guys have years of freestyle on him now.  
 

I’m surprised folks have higher expectations based on past performance.  He might get a lot better but I don’t think his past folkstyle work predicts it.

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