Is Mizzou in trouble?

[tigerfan 178]

As a long time Mizzou fan, I’m getting a weird vibe from the program. First, Jden Cox leaves because the RTC just wasn’t up to snuff to get him where he wanted to go. Not exactly recruiting poster material. Then the entire staff exits over the off season, but most people shrugged that off and we’re confident that Coach Smith and the program wouldn’t lose a step. Then Eierman takes an Oly RS and we begin the season with only single returning AA, (Leeth is back after missing last year, but down a weight and his health is obviously suspect) which is extremely rare in the last decade plus. The first dual features a lineup missing a 133, and so full of holes that they lost handily to a barely top 20 VTech. Not a very good look. Top it all off with Eierman’s transfer and some might say the wheels are falling off. Slightly less alarmists might concede that if Smith detects a program that is backsliding rather than progressing towards a Natty Championship, how long until he decides to seek other challenges? Maybe Smith just plans to throw in the towel this year? But Eierman transferring kinda throws a wrench in that plan. I’m not ready to sound the alarm just yet, but it does concern me. Someone reassure me, please. 

[Jimmy Cinnabon 265]

Hire Askren

[Housebuye 2,225]

The only one I’m concerned about is the Eierman one. 
 

if there were major issues, guys like Otoole would know and would go elsewhere 

[nhs67 1,228]

Entering the portal does not mean he is leaving.  It means he may leave.

[killdozer 41]

I actually thinks it might help the team in the long run. While it will hurt next year to watch him somewhere else. 

I think it creates some opportunities. 

Allen Hart will move up to 141 lbs. next year possibly. Which is more of his natural weight. 

Connor Brown will be the 133 lbs. and you get two years out of them.

If Leeth returns he can 149 and redshirt Mauller. 

Mizzou's best team was probably going to be after Eierman graduated as well with Brown, Hart,  Mauller, Jacques, Mocco, O'Toole, and both Elams

That being said I just trying to look on the positive cause he was my favorite wrestler to watch. Depending on the singlet... I may not be cheering. 

 

 

[steamboat_charlie v2 939]

There are definitely some red flags right now, but I'll try to talk you off the ledge a little:

1) Young talent.  Mauller is a home run recruit, Jacques and Elam solid ground-rule doubles.  Hart and Mocco I think are also quality guys, give them some time and I think you'll see some solid results this year.

2) Class of 2020.  This is your reloading class.  O'Toole and Rocky Elam IMO are can't miss guys, guys you build a top 5 lineup around.  I see O'Toole challenging for titles, and maybe early in his career as well.  Add to those two 3 other top 100 big board guys, very encouraging. 

3) History.  Smith is a proven winner, with one of the strongest track records in the country of developing talent.  There are going to be bumps in the road here and there across a 20+ year run.  Mizzou doesn't have the fundraising power that the big boys do, but they compete with them annually anyway.  That's a disadvantage in terms of RTC's and retaining talent post-graduation, but that's the same battle Smith has always been fighting, and oftentimes winning. 

[Show_Me 309]

1 hour ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

There are definitely some red flags right now, but I'll try to talk you off the ledge a little:

1) Young talent.  Mauller is a home run recruit, Jacques and Elam solid ground-rule doubles.  Hart and Mocco I think are also quality guys, give them some time and I think you'll see some solid results this year.

2) Class of 2020.  This is your reloading class.  O'Toole and Rocky Elam IMO are can't miss guys, guys you build a top 5 lineup around.  I see O'Toole challenging for titles, and maybe early in his career as well.  Add to those two 3 other top 100 big board guys, very encouraging. 

3) History.  Smith is a proven winner, with one of the strongest track records in the country of developing talent.  There are going to be bumps in the road here and there across a 20+ year run.  Mizzou doesn't have the fundraising power that the big boys do, but they compete with them annually anyway.  That's a disadvantage in terms of RTC's and retaining talent post-graduation, but that's the same battle Smith has always been fighting, and oftentimes winning. 

+1 

Couldn’t have said it any better myself.

[ionel 1,477]

3 hours ago, tigerfan said:

As a long time Mizzou fan ...

and here I had ya for a Princeton fan   ;)

[hammerlockthree 2,084]

good topic

[Fishbane 141]

Is Eireman leaving really an issue?  This will be his 5th year at Missouri.  It is quite possible that he will graduate before next year.  Are coaches supposed to be recruiting athletes to spend 6+ years on campus now?

[scramble 153]

I don't think it a concern.  I'm trying to remember if Eireman redshirted or not. I'm thinking he did. If so he has to be close to graduation.  Close enough that 2 part time semesters could get him there.  

Regardless, I think transfers are becoming more common in genera. To others people's point they just had a great recruiting class.  

Missouri also has been good about keeping most of their top HS kids home and u expect that will continue. 

 

And also as noted.  He may not go anywhere.  If he does I wish him the best of luck.  I wouldn't blame him for wanting to chanfe things up while he is still young.  He has been in the Columbia area most of his life.  I think it's good for kids to get out and experience other environments. Best of luck to him.  Missouri will still be a top 10 program imo. 

 

 

[Gantry 1,713]

27 minutes ago, Fishbane said:

Is Eireman leaving really an issue?  This will be his 5th year at Missouri.  It is quite possible that he will graduate before next year.  Are coaches supposed to be recruiting athletes to spend 6+ years on campus now?

The OP specifically listed 4 or 5 different things, not just his transfer.  In itself probably not, but combined with everything else there could be an issue.  Not sure either way, but certainly worthy of discussion.

[Billyhoyle 2,028]

The fact that Missouri has been so good for so long is amazing.  Obviously this isn't good news, but as long as Brian Smith is there the program will be in decent shape (at least better shape than without him).  But yeah, Askren getting his dignity taken away by Masvidal was also a bad look for the program. 

[Crotalus 464]

15 hours ago, tigerfan said:

First, Jden Cox leaves because the RTC just wasn’t up to snuff to get him where he wanted to go. Not exactly recruiting poster material.

Mizzou's RTC has never been any good, and it hasn't hampered them so far. J'den was probably loyal to the program longer than he should have been. They just don't have the money or ability to compete with the bigger RTCs or the OTC, and never will.

14 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Entering the portal does not mean he is leaving.  It means he may leave.

Does anyone ever enter the portal and stay put? The other thread mentioned an interview where he said he knew where he was going. Sounds like a given that he will be gone.

8 hours ago, Fishbane said:

Is Eireman leaving really an issue?  This will be his 5th year at Missouri.  It is quite possible that he will graduate before next year.  Are coaches supposed to be recruiting athletes to spend 6+ years on campus now?

Only if there is some bigger underlying issue that caused him to leave that may impact other members of the team. If he is leaving just because he feels like he needs a change of scenery to be his best, then I don't think it is an issue.

[TBar1977 3,953]

15 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Entering the portal does not mean he is leaving.  It means he may leave.

He's leaving. Plus, this is not the ringing endorsement of the program per se.

https://www.flowrestling.org/events/6197840-2018-the-bader-show/videos?playing=6593892

[wrestlingnerd 2,778]

Mizzou is in the same boat that every school that doesn't have a top RTC is in. Elite HS recruits and college wrestlers who want to make a living off the sport (at least for a while) are going to make programs with top RTCs as a priority. Given what the payouts from top RTCs are these days, coaching is not the only career option for top wrestlers anymore. Eierman said it himself: a strong RTC was a key (if not the key) consideration for his departure. This isn't really a bad reflection on Mizzou as much as a reality check for all programs that aspire to be in contention for NCAA trophies every year.

To me, he's obviously going to Iowa.

[Billyhoyle 2,028]

34 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Mizzou is in the same boat that every school that doesn't have a top RTC is in. Elite HS recruits and college wrestlers who want to make a living off the sport (at least for a while) are going to make programs with top RTCs as a priority. Given what the payouts from top RTCs are these days, coaching is not the only career option for top wrestlers anymore. Eierman said it himself: a strong RTC was a key (if not the key) consideration for his departure. This isn't really a bad reflection on Mizzou as much as a reality check for all programs that aspire to be in contention for NCAA trophies every year.

To me, he's obviously going to Iowa.

Why do you think Iowa? 

[wrestlingnerd 2,778]

Top RTCs (in results and funding):

1. PSU

2. Iowa

3. Finger Lakes (Cornell)

4. tOSU

5. Michigan

6. OSU

7. NJ RTC (Princeton, Rutgers)

Something like that, right? I probably have some off, since I'm guessing on level of funding for the Ivies.

PSU has Retherford, who obliterated Eierman the last time they met and ran Frank the Tank out of town. FL has Yianni. Iowa has bupkis. 

His stated goal since he started wrestling is to win an Olympic title. The RTC he'll be wrestling for soon is where he always wanted to go. Iowa has produced more Olympic champs than any other school and is coached by an Olympic champ. 

No other school adds up.

[nhs67 1,228]

2 hours ago, Crotalus said:

Does anyone ever enter the portal and stay put? The other thread mentioned an interview where he said he knew where he was going. Sounds like a given that he will be gone.

 

1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

He's leaving. Plus, this is not the ringing endorsement of the program per se.

https://www.flowrestling.org/events/6197840-2018-the-bader-show/videos?playing=6593892

I knew he was leaving and to be fair I was merely pointing out all it really is is throwing out there that "Hey new schools... I am officially allowed to be sought after in a 'legal' manner in accordance with our NCAA bylaws."

That and it was an attempt, albeit unenthusiastic, to get folks to step off the ledge. Removing panic, and all...

[gimpeltf 1,643]

12 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Iowa has bupkis. 

[russelscout 1,573]

11 hours ago, Fishbane said:

Is Eireman leaving really an issue?  This will be his 5th year at Missouri.  It is quite possible that he will graduate before next year.  Are coaches supposed to be recruiting athletes to spend 6+ years on campus now?

I think not having him for one year is secondary to the optics of one of their best guys going somewhere else to try to win a title. This one was pretty shocking because Eireman seemed like such a Mizzou-man, and I am sure not only fans are asking why, but high level recruits too. Then again if Mauller makes the finals or really if Mizzou finds a way to stay relevant, then the whole Eireman thing will be forgotten. 

[wrestlingnerd 2,778]

I just found out from the other thread that Jaydin's dad went to Nebraska. Of course, I also neglected to add Nebraska to the list of top RTCs (duh....). Since Jaydin's favorite wrestler ever is his dad, I now get why Nebraska might be it.

[TBar1977 3,953]

If his original h.s. list was Missou, Nebby and PSU then it has to be either Nebby or PSU since he said the new choice is the school he always wanted to go to. This assumes he'd have included said school in that original list.

[Glane18 73]

Not sure if this is true at all, but I heard rumors that Jayden was not the best "team" guy in the room and got a lot of special treatment to support that.  Maybe the coaches are looking at the overall, longterm, big picture here about culture.  I also don't have a problem with Jayden looking after himself and wanting to put himself in the best opportunity to maximize his full potential.  Just like Snyder, J'den, and others.  There's a small window to compete.  

[Perry 1,258]

Nebraska seems like a better fit than PSU. Good fit at 149 for college and the RTC is obv good with Burroughs and Green being there (plus coaching). Why wrestle with Zain all the time when he already has the advantage? Iowa and tOSU seem like possible fits as well pending the weight class.

 

EDIT* It is a pretty interesting comment about the lack of RTC at Mizzou which is what the top B1G schools are focusing on now. Hopefully a wake up call to Smith after losing both Cox and now Eirmann. The program collegiality could be fine considering Leeth and Mauller but this is a loss and call for the need of promising futures post college (beyond the "professional" field)

Edited November 7, 2019 by Perry