Arm drag baseball slide?

[DROP 3]

Does this move have an actual name? And who teaches it the best? All I see is Jiu Jitsu videos on YouTube. Been seeing a resurgence of this move lately.

 

 

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[Crotalus 379]

Not sure exactly what you mean, but the boot scoot, Lincoln McIlravy's signature move, is kind of an arm drag-slide(/fall on your ass) maneuver.

[Coachp 30]

1 minute ago, Crotalus said:

Not sure exactly what your mean, but the boot scoot (Lincoln McIlravy's signature move). Is kind of an arm drag/slide maneuver.

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That was the first thing I thought of as well, but you see lots of variations. LM, sometimes did it almost as a shot from open as well, which is tough to do.

[Crotalus 379]

That was the first thing I thought of as well, but you see lots of variations. LM, sometimes did it almost as a shot from open as well, which is tough to do.

He was fun to watch.

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[hammerlockthree 1,820]

4 hours ago, Crotalus said:

Not sure exactly what you mean, but the boot scoot, Lincoln McIlravy's signature move, is kind of an arm drag-slide(/fall on your ass) maneuver.

This drives me nuts. A boot school is a duck off elbow control which he did, however he also had the afore mentioned drag baseball slide thing. They look very similar but are totally different skills. Kinda like when people see a cross knee pick and scream "DRESSER DUMP".

[KTG119 817]

4 hours ago, Crotalus said:

Not sure exactly what you mean, but the boot scoot, Lincoln McIlravy's signature move, is kind of an arm drag-slide(/fall on your ass) maneuver.

I believe he had about 7 signature/go to moves (47 second mark)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eguTaPsK_A

[Crotalus 379]

This drives me nuts. A boot school is a duck off elbow control which he did, however he also had the afore mentioned drag baseball slide thing. They look very similar but are totally different skills. Kinda like when people see a cross knee pick and scream "DRESSER DUMP".

I see those as different set ups to the boot scoot. It's not a boot scoot of you're not sliding your leg to the outside of the opponent and landing on your ass as you grab the leg. The arm drag is just a different way to get the opponent moving forward. At least that's the way I remember being taught at an Iowa wrestling camp in the late 90's.

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[hammerlockthree 1,820]

50 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

I see those as different set ups to the boot scoot. It's not a boot scoot of you're not sliding your leg to the outside of the opponent and landing on your ass as you grab the leg. The arm drag is just a different way to get the opponent moving forward. At least that's the way I remember being taught at an Iowa wrestling camp in the late 90's.

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no one own the name to moves....I based my take on McIlravy's VHS tapes. I just see one as a penetration and the other as a duck under, different core skills...but whatever I shouldnt care.

[scribe 1,655]

Nickerson was quite good at whichever variation he was doing. 

[Crotalus 379]

1 hour ago, hammerlockthree said:

no one own the name to moves....I based my take on McIlravy's VHS tapes. I just see one as a penetration and the other as a duck under, different core skills...but whatever I shouldnt care.

Based on the available video, McIlravy clearly set it up most often from the elbow tie. But it is different than a duck under where you drop to your knees and switch off to a double or body lock. Ian Miller shows it from an elbow tie here:
https://www.flowrestling.org/video/5518434-ian-miller-boot-scootmpg

The same maneuver can be done from an arm drag. The only video I can quickly find of it isn't even from wrestling, but the same principle applies. It can also be set up from an under hook. The key is to just get the opponents momentum moving forward. I'm curious if this is even what the OP is referring to, though.

 

[Cptafw164 96]

I once knew a wrestler that only did moves that were named after wrestlers.   If he didn't pin, he would usually lose.      

[DROP 3]

Yes.....most of what Lincoln did was ducks and boot scoots , that's not what I'm talking about. That being said, the move he hit on Bono in OT is similar to what I'm talking about except the inside arm in that match wasn't dragging.

 

 

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[DROP 3]

As per usual the jiu jitsu video is kinda where I was going with this. But wanted to see if there was someone I've missed that was exceptional at the move that teaches the finer points.


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[Cptafw164 96]

using the inside arm to drag can be easily countered by pushing that drag hand into the opponent's chest.  It stops the drag immediately.  That drag isn't popular because the "wax on wax off" movement of the outer hand to inner hand is a telegraph.  Much faster to just clear the elbow and scoot. 

[DROP 3]

using the inside arm to drag can be easily countered by pushing that drag hand into the opponent's chest.  It stops the drag immediately.  That drag isn't popular because the "wax on wax off" movement of the outer hand to inner hand is a telegraph.  Much faster to just clear the elbow and scoot. 

I don't really like the example in the jiu Jitsu video with the wax on part. But I like the actual inside arm drag better because of the pulling motion. The whole pulling the wrist and pushing the elbow seems like a desperation move and it's freaking Lincoln. But I've seen the inside drag and scoot all my life on different levels. Just not a technical breakdown from a high level guy that uses or used it.


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[DROP 3]

Bump


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[Gambatte 49]

Ben Harvey, Army West Point, used this arm drag technique quite often and effectively. It seemed “retro” when I first saw him use it; the technique was fairly common in the 60s and 70s. I also saw it used by a Russian freestyle wrestler but can’t recall who or when. 

[TobusRex 1,788]

Just a fancy arm drag. Usually I'd do it just to get a little behind them so I could ride them down to the mat (or throw them). I have to admit the technique shown in the video is better than mine.

[TobusRex 1,788]

On 11/13/2019 at 8:40 AM, Cptafw164 said:

using the inside arm to drag can be easily countered by pushing that drag hand into the opponent's chest.  It stops the drag immediately.  That drag isn't popular because the "wax on wax off" movement of the outer hand to inner hand is a telegraph.  Much faster to just clear the elbow and scoot. 

It works like a champion on non-wrestlers though. You can end a fight with a "civilian" quite quickly with an armdrag and about 10 PSI of pressure to the back of their elbow.

[TobusRex 1,788]

16 hours ago, Gambatte said:

Ben Harvey, Army West Point, used this arm drag technique quite often and effectively. It seemed “retro” when I first saw him use it; the technique was fairly common in the 60s and 70s. I also saw it used by a Russian freestyle wrestler but can’t recall who or when. 

Was bummed out he didn't make AA. Wasn't he one of the guys who missed his chance last year?

[hammerlockthree 1,820]

On 11/11/2019 at 8:12 PM, Crotalus said:

Based on the available video, McIlravy clearly set it up most often from the elbow tie. But it is different than a duck under where you drop to your knees and switch off to a double or body lock. Ian Miller shows it from an elbow tie here:
https://www.flowrestling.org/video/5518434-ian-miller-boot-scootmpg

The same maneuver can be done from an arm drag. The only video I can quickly find of it isn't even from wrestling, but the same principle applies. It can also be set up from an under hook. The key is to just get the opponents momentum moving forward. I'm curious if this is even what the OP is referring to, though.

 

its not the same maneuver at all. You can call it semantics but the skills are completely different.

[OldGrappler 45]

Gray Simons showed a set up for a drag like this back in the late 60s at a wrestling that I attended.    It was far more subtle and effective than what is seen in the Judo video above.   It involved a forearm-forearm tie where the other guy is fighting to have the "inside" tie.  You just make a very tight circle with your forearm and guide his hand past you as you hit the drag.  

But the finish was the same.  You stepped in with your right foot and pulled the guy past (although you were really pulling yourself in more than planting and pulling him past).

It worked pretty well, and you could get it on decent guys.  It did require a little quickness.

 

There's another variation where you don't go down to your hip, but step in the same way mostly standing up, using the drag to pull yourself in.  In that variation, you have to release the drag quickly and shoot your right hand (or elbow) across the guy's waist, tripping him backwards with your right foot behind his right foot.   If you don't release the drag and get your arm across, you get redragged. 

 

The drag can be very effective.  I can't find the video, so my memory can't be confirmed,  but I think I remember Dylan Long of NIU using a slick setup on Teyon Ware.  Long was looking for you to grab his lower forearm or wrist which was collar-tied on your neck.  He then just dropped his collar tie down and used it to lead your hand across and into the cleared position to hit a drag.  Very subtle.  I can't remember if he got the takedown or not.  Hope I'm remembering the right guy.  In any case, using the other guy's control to lead his hand where you want it is a big part of hitting drags. 

[TobusRex 1,788]

Why did the guy in the video let go of the arm before he hit the mat? Wouldn't it have been better to slide the hand down to the elbow and maintain control of the arm? Not nit-picking, figuring the answer has something to do with rules of Judo or something, plus I was never a technical master. 

[Obelix 13]

I really liked doing this kind of drag (from the initial post), but I think it's so damn hard to teach. It takes a reaction from your partner/opponent that I don't think you can really replicate while learning the move and drilling it. 

[jackwebster 99]

On 11/11/2019 at 12:29 PM, hammerlockthree said:

This drives me nuts. A boot school is a duck off elbow control which he did, however he also had the afore mentioned drag baseball slide thing. They look very similar but are totally different skills. Kinda like when people see a cross knee pick and scream "DRESSER DUMP".

Welcome to nominalism! It's an exciting new field of thought. You should check out CRATYLUS; this Plato guy is on the bleeding edge.