Blair?

[Antitroll2828 735]

So coach Buxton left Blair in 2012, I know in 2014 Ruth won his last title. My question is has Blair had an Ncaa champion since then. Seems while Blair still is the number 1 team in the country, there athletes college success seemed to dip. Am I wrong or has anyone else noticed this? Is the lack of success at the next level a direct result of buxton leaving?

[klehner 443]

8 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

So coach Buxton left Blair in 2012, I know in 2014 Ruth won his last title. My question is has Blair had an Ncaa champion since then. Seems while Blair still is the number 1 team in the country, there athletes college success seemed to dip. Am I wrong or has anyone else noticed this? Is the lack of success at the next level a direct result of buxton leaving?

They've only had nine NCAA champions in their history.  It's not like they have been churning them out at a high rate.

[ResiliteMarine 29]

They are better known for having AA's consistently.

[ptz305 145]

Interesting question. Looking beyond Blair, this seems to be a trend among wrestlers from power programs. Wrestlers who were world beaters in high school get caught in college once others have the same training methods available. 

Don't get me wrong, these wrestlers are typically very good, but they have a lower ceiling than many of their peers. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by ptz305

[1032004 929]

10 minutes ago, ptz305 said:

Interesting question. Looking beyond Blair, this seems to be a trend among wrestlers from power programs. Wrestlers who were world beaters in high school get caught in college once others have the same training methods available. 

Don't get me wrong, these wrestlers are typically very good, but they have a lower ceiling than many of their peers. 

Depends on how you define "power programs" I guess.

Just looking at last year, I think some would argue Suriano, Ashnault, Lewis, Valencia, and Nickal were all from "power programs."

[steamboat_charlie v2 939]

1 hour ago, Antitroll2828 said:

So coach Buxton left Blair in 2012, I know in 2014 Ruth won his last title. My question is has Blair had an Ncaa champion since then. Seems while Blair still is the number 1 team in the country, there athletes college success seemed to dip. Am I wrong or has anyone else noticed this? Is the lack of success at the next level a direct result of buxton leaving?

I wouldn't take too much from that.  Sometimes these guys come in waves.  Blair is as strong right now as they've ever been, and are going to continue to pump out high quality recruits. Some with more room to improve than others.  

Ramirez, Van Ness, Mastro 1, Mastro 2, Stewart, McGowan... you're going to see some titles out of those kids.  And those are just the names I know, not following high school nearly as close as I used to. 

 

[ptz305 145]

12 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Depends on how you define "power programs" I guess.

Just looking at last year, I think some would argue Suriano, Ashnault, Lewis, Valencia, and Nickal were all from "power programs."

Good point, I'm not really sure how to define it, maybe as perennial top 20-25 programs on the National level. Not simply dominating in state, but producing national level heavy hitters throughout the line-up. 

Suriano - Yes. 

Ashnault - No, but I could be wrong. While South Plainfield is very good, I think their national success during his time was more of the result of a monster senior class. Again, could be wrong. 

Lewis - No, I don't think Bound Brook is a perennial top 25 team in the country, though they have an awesome program, they don't show up in the rankings every year. 

Valencia - No, SJB does not appear regularly in the rankings, though some of their individuals do and they are stacked right now. Either way, his brother serves as the counter argument. 

Nickal - Maybe, but again, this seems like a team that pops up on occasion and not year after year after year. I can't really think of any other D1 type guys from this school. 

While all of these programs are awesome, they have not been on the same level as Blair, BC, SPG, Sem, St. Eds, DCC, Montini, for years and years on end. 

[VAtoSC 32]

21 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

I wouldn't take too much from that.  Sometimes these guys come in waves.  Blair is as strong right now as they've ever been, and are going to continue to pump out high quality recruits. Some with more room to improve than others.  

Ramirez, Van Ness, Mastro 1, Mastro 2, Stewart, McGowan... you're going to see some titles out of those kids.  And those are just the names I know, not following high school nearly as close as I used to. 

 

What has always amazed me about Blair is that they have big-time studs every year, but the less heralded guys are still Ironman and Beast of the East and National Prep placewinners. 

Yes Ruth was their last NCAA National Champion, but just last year they had three more All-Americans in Kutler, Kolodzik, and McKenna.

[jon 158]

My opinion: In recent years Blair guys have gone to the 'wrong' programs. They've gone to schools known for academics (whether or not this perception is justified lol) moreso than for wrestling. E.g., Cornell. I'm kinda grasping here but Blair guys who go on to attend power programs (e.g., Iowa, ISU, OkSt, tOSU) tend to have better outcomes than those who don't.

Edited November 12, 2019 by jon

[Antitroll2828 735]

2 hours ago, klehner said:

They've only had nine NCAA champions in their history.  It's not like they have been churning them out at a high rate.

9 ncaa champs from one high school in 25 years I’d say that is a pretty good rate compared to most schools 

[John Morgan 38]

I agree with Antitroll...I am sure there are not many HS's in the country who can claim even close to 9 NCAA champs.  As a comparison, Bloomington Kennedy HS in MN has the highest number of NCAA champs in the state with three...Marty Morgan (MN), Joel Sharratt (IA), and Jason Ness (MN).

[brickhousey 120]

This creates a cool trivia question, what Public school has the most national champions?


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[steamboat_charlie v2 939]

27 minutes ago, brickhousey said:

This creates a cool trivia question, what Public school has the most national champions?


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This has come up here before so I won't spoil it.  

Not sure who it is in Ohio... best guess is SPG with Jim Jordan, David Taylor, and if you count Schlatter that makes 5 titles.  

[jon 158]

56 minutes ago, brickhousey said:

This creates a cool trivia question, what Public school has the most national champions?


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Also relevant: Most national championiships not just champions?

[Witherman 366]

1 hour ago, John Morgan said:

I agree with Antitroll...I am sure there are not many HS's in the country who can claim even close to 9 NCAA champs.  As a comparison, Bloomington Kennedy HS in MN has the highest number of NCAA champs in the state with three...Marty Morgan (MN), Joel Sharratt (IA), and Jason Ness (MN).

apple valley's website says they have 6 ncaa champs - could this be counting multiple championships per individual athlete?  i'm no expert on minnesota HS wrestling but they were the first team that I thought of when you mentioned bloomington being the most

[Witherman 366]

1 hour ago, brickhousey said:

This creates a cool trivia question, what Public school has the most national champions?


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6 minutes ago, jon said:

Also relevant: Most national championiships not just champions?

quick research here but a few links I found.  Looks like everything is 2017 or older.

http://www.cmwrestlingalumni.com/blog/which-state-has-the-most-ncaa-championship-titles

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/5065531-which-state-is-the-best-at-producing-ncaa-all-americans

looks like @Jaroslav Hasek needs to get to work on this topic

[ptz305 145]

1 hour ago, brickhousey said:

This creates a cool trivia question, what Public school has the most national champions?


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Cedar Rapids Prairie? 

[Witherman 366]

36 minutes ago, ptz305 said:

Cedar Rapids Prairie? 

didn't even think of prairie.  just between jimmy z and barry davis there is 6!

[MDogg 273]

3 hours ago, brickhousey said:

This creates a cool trivia question, what Public school has the most national champions?


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I don’t know the answer but I’d bet pretty heavily it’s in Oklahoma...and my best guess is Perry High School.

Oklahoma State and to a lesser extent Oklahoma have been churning out ncaa champs for damn near a century and their talent is notoriously home grown. A few years ago I think they had 7-8 guys on the roster from Stillwater High School alone. I know they’ve got 2 starters this year (Kaid Brock and Joe Smith) from Stillwater. And Perry has been a dynasty since before it produced Dan Hodge. One year in the seventies Oklahoma won a Team title and 5 out of their 10 starters were from Perry. 

Final guess: Perry.

[1032004 929]

11 minutes ago, MDogg said:

I don’t know the answer but I’d bet pretty heavily it’s in Oklahoma...and my best guess is Perry High School.

Oklahoma State and to a lesser extent Oklahoma have been churning out ncaa champs for damn near a century and their talent is notoriously home grown. A few years ago I think they had 7-8 guys on the roster from Stillwater High School alone. I know they’ve got 2 starters this year (Kaid Brock and Joe Smith) from Stillwater. And Perry has been a dynasty since before it produced Dan Hodge. One year in the seventies Oklahoma won a Team title and 5 out of their 10 starters were from Perry. 

Final guess: Perry.

According to the previous topic linked above Jaroslav Hasek said it was Tulsa Central with 15.   Quick google search reveals they don't even have a team currently?

https://www.tulsaworld.com/sports/high-school/john-klein-the-kings-of-wrestling-once-called-central-high/article_6c18438a-bb38-5dd8-8bee-a0cb0ae6c2de.html

[NJDan 671]

4 hours ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

This has come up here before so I won't spoil it.  

Not sure who it is in Ohio... best guess is SPG with Jim Jordan, David Taylor, and if you count Schlatter that makes 5 titles.  

 

[NJDan 671]

Just now, NJDan said:

 

I always  assumed SPG was Catholic b/c of the Saint in the name. But  I googled and learned  otherwise.

[OBXWrestler 98]

7 hours ago, ptz305 said:

Good point, I'm not really sure how to define it, maybe as perennial top 20-25 programs on the National level. Not simply dominating in state, but producing national level heavy hitters throughout the line-up. 

Suriano - Yes. 

Ashnault - No, but I could be wrong. While South Plainfield is very good, I think their national success during his time was more of the result of a monster senior class. Again, could be wrong. 

Lewis - No, I don't think Bound Brook is a perennial top 25 team in the country, though they have an awesome program, they don't show up in the rankings every year. 

Valencia - No, SJB does not appear regularly in the rankings, though some of their individuals do and they are stacked right now. Either way, his brother serves as the counter argument. 

Nickal - Maybe, but again, this seems like a team that pops up on occasion and not year after year after year. I can't really think of any other D1 type guys from this school. 

While all of these programs are awesome, they have not been on the same level as Blair, BC, SPG, Sem, St. Eds, DCC, Montini, for years and years on end. 

AJ Ferrari 

[John Morgan 38]

5 hours ago, Witherman said:

apple valley's website says they have 6 ncaa champs - could this be counting multiple championships per individual athlete?  i'm no expert on minnesota HS wrestling but they were the first team that I thought of when you mentioned bloomington being the most

Dang.  I could be behind the times and that may be so. 

AV DI champs...Mark Hall, Seth Gross, and Matt Demary (WI).  DII champs Destin McCauley (NE Kearney), and Mike Langlais (NDSU).  I am missing someone but not sure who off hand.  

[Mphillips 870]

1 hour ago, NJDan said:

I always  assumed SPG was Catholic b/c of the Saint in the name. But  I googled and learned  otherwise.

It was a running joke in Ohio for years how the,  'private, Catholic school' recruited all the nations best.