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Jimmy Cinnabon

Best schools for each weight (light, middle, heavy)

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9 hours ago, treep2000 said:

As a secret guilty pleasure, I actually enjoy Cinnabon's post.  Most of them are actually valid, and I feel he's earned a bad rap because he's so active and constantly asking questions. 

But... in this instance, the answers to your question of this thread has already been done.  Around this time last year, i think that Flo did an article/analysis (maybe Spey?) on this exact topic, and concluded already where "Lightweight U", "Middleweight U" and "Upperweight U" are.  I think the only data not factored in was this most recent season, which, in reality, ought not move the needle a whole lot.

So... @Jaroslav Hasek ringing a bell or do I have this wrong?

Nomad wrote the articles but I did all the hard work ;)

285 U can be found here and has all the links to the other weights inside. The series could definitely use an update. Just need to find the time!

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13 hours ago, lu1979 said:

It makes 0 sense to count 149 as both lightweight and middleweight and include the winners in both groups - If you are going to do this analysis pick a spot for 149 and do it right.

149 is definitely middle weight in my mind. 

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13 hours ago, Cptafw164 said:

I thought of it this way:

Would a coach bring in Frank Molinaro as an assistant coach to develop the 125-141 range wrestlers?  Or would it cater more towards 149-165?  I think it falls more towards 149--165 with some ability to touch the 141lbers. 

I don't disagree with that.  Lightweight assistant coaches (Cody Sanderson, Mike Grey, Terry Brands, Jeremy Hunter, Matt McDonough) are more likely to be former 125 or 133lbers than 141 or 149.  That said on FRL recently they talked about seeing Terry Brands beating up on Marinelli in practice. So the range can be large. FRL also recently talked about Joel Greenlee being the only current D1 head coach that wrestled 275/285.

I don't think there is a bright line rule on the cutoff for lightweight or middle weight and I think people would care less about how it was treated if it didn't befit Penn State in the lightweight rankings so much.  In defense of Cinnabon's interpretation, 149 is closer (slightly) in an absolute sense (2lbs) to his extreme lightweight weight class, 125, then it is to his extreme middleweight weight class, 174.  Of course the converse is true if you look at things as a percentage, but again just slightly (less than 2%).  That fits his classification of it as a tweener weight quite well. 

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20 minutes ago, Fishbane said:

I don't disagree with that.  Lightweight assistant coaches (Cody Sanderson, Mike Grey, Terry Brands, Jeremy Hunter, Matt McDonough) are more likely to be former 125 or 133lbers than 141 or 149.  That said on FRL recently they talked about seeing Terry Brands beating up on Marinelli in practice. So the range can be large. FRL also recently talked about Joel Greenlee being the only current D1 head coach that wrestled 275/285.

I don't think there is a bright line rule on the cutoff for lightweight or middle weight and I think people would care less about how it was treated if it didn't befit Penn State in the lightweight rankings so much.  In defense of Cinnabon's interpretation, 149 is closer (slightly) in an absolute sense (2lbs) to his extreme lightweight weight class, 125, then it is to his extreme middleweight weight class, 174.  Of course the converse is true if you look at things as a percentage, but again just slightly (less than 2%).  That fits his classification of it as a tweener weight quite well. 

Correct me if I am wrong but 149 is 25lbs less than 174 and 24 lbs more than 125.  So wouldn't the difference in an "absolute sense" be only 1 lb?

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2 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Correct me if I am wrong but 149 is 25lbs less than 174 and 24 lbs more than 125.  So wouldn't the difference in an "absolute sense" be only 1 lb?

You are correct.  Math is hard.  The other way 125 is 83.9% of 149 and 149 is 85.6% of 174.

Edited by Fishbane

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On 11/12/2019 at 2:22 PM, Fishbane said:

Lightweight champs past 10 years

  1. Iowa 7 (McD 2, Lee 2, Ramos, Clark, Metcalf)
  2. Penn State 5 (Molinaro, Megaludis, Retherford 3)
  3. Cornell 5 (Dake 2, Garrett, Yianni 2)
  4. Ohio State 5 (Stieber 4, Tomasello)
  5. Oklahoma State 4 (Oliver 2, Heil 2)
  6. Rutgers 2 (Suriano, Ashnault)
  7. Oklahoma 2 (Maple, Brewer)
  8. Illinois 2 (Delgado 2)
  9. Michigan 2 (Russell)
  10. Lehigh 1 (Cruz)
  11. ASU 1 (Robles)
  12. Minnesota 1 (Ness)
  13. SDSU 1 (Gross)
  14. Missouri 1 (Houdashelt) 
  15. Northwestern 1 (Tsirtsis)

Middleweight champs past 10 years

  1. Penn State 14 (Molinaro, Retherford 3, Nolf 3, Taylor 2, Joseph 2, Ruth, Brown, Hall)
  2. Oklahoma State 6 (Oliver, Dieringer 3, Chris Perry 2)
  3. Iowa 3 (Metcalf, Borschal , St. John)
  4. ASU 3 (Valencia 2, Jenkins)
  5. Cornell 3 (Dake 3)
  6. Illinois 2 (Imar 2)
  7. Missouri 1 (Houdashelt)
  8. Rutgers 1 (Ashnault)
  9. Northwestern 1 (Tsirtsis)
  10. Harvard 1 (O'Conner)
  11. Wisconsin 1 (Howe)
  12. Nebraska 1 (Burroughs)
  13. Virginia Tech 1 (Lewis)
  14. ISU 1 (Reader)
  15. Ohio State 1 (Martin)

Heavyweight champs past 10 years

  1. Penn State 8 (Wright 2, Ruth 2, Nickal 3, Cassar)
  2. Missouri 5 (Askren, Ellis, Cox 3)
  3. Cornell 4 (Bosak, Dean 2, Simaz)
  4. ISU 3 (Varner, Zabriski, Gadson)
  5. NC State 3 (Macchiavello, Gwiz 2)
  6. Ohio State 3 (Snyder 3)
  7. Ohio State 3 (Snyder 3)
  8. UNI 1 (Foster)
  9. Kent State 1 (Kilgore)
  10. Lehigh 1 (Rey)
  11. Minnesota 2 (Nelson 2)

 

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Ellis won NCAAs in 2009.  I only looked at the past 10 years (2010-2019 inclusive).  Circling back to the original question about what the best school would be for a lightweight, middleweight, or upperweight high school wrestler to choose it might be more important to look at the staff than the school.  Iowa State has four champs in that period, but maybe Sanderson deserves some of the credit for that.  The rest of the credit should probably go to Jackson and his staff which has been replaced too.  So I don't know that it counts very much at all in favour for Iowa State.  

Similarly someone mentioned including Travis Lee (NCAA champ in 2003 and 2005) and Troy Nickerson (NCAA Champ in 2009) in favour of Cornell.  Whilst the head coach has remained the same (Koll) the rest of the staff has completely turned over since those titles.  The assistants Mike Grey, Kyle Dake, and Gabe Dean graduated in 2011, 2013, and 2017 respectively.  

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