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Seth Gross 2020

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5 minutes ago, scramble said:

The thing about 57 is there are at least 6 names that will be contesting for this weight.  Yet none will be favored to get a medal.  As good as our guys seem to be, in the biggest of ponds a medal is gonna be hard to get. 

If he is healthy and chooses to compete, Spencer Lee will medal.

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I just looked up some Gross facts a lot of which I didn’t know (apologies in advance to  those who did)
 

Three time state champ at 120, 132 and 138 as a senior. All at Apple Valley, home of Mark Hall and Gable Steveson. 
 

2014-2015: Wrestled at Iowa as a freshmen at 142. Redshirted. Compiled a 12-4 record including a 12-4 loss to Dean Heil. 
 

2015-2016: Transferred to SDSU and wrestled 141 as a redshirt frosh. Compiled a 27-13 record and lost to every ranked opponent except Bryce Meredith who he beat 8-3. He lost twice to Heil but both times by two. 
 

2016-2017: still at SDSU. Moves down to 133. He lost twice. Once early in the season in SV to Eric Montoya who he subsequently beat at NCAAs 11-1. Loses in NCAAs 4-3 to Cory Clark. 
 

2017-2018: still at 133 at SDSU.  Loses once. To Bryce Meredith 4-2, who was ranked one at the time (January). Wins NCAAs defeating Micic 13-8 in the finals.  

Now he transferred to Wisconsin. He’s a Badger. 

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1 hour ago, BigTimeFan said:

2017-2018: still at 133 at SDSU.  Loses once. To Bryce Meredith 4-2, who was ranked one at the time (January). Wins NCAAs defeating Micic 13-8 in the finals.  
 

I believe that that loss to Meredith was at 142 - Gross went up a weight to challenge him in the dual meet.

His recent cut to 57 kg is all the more impressive when one considers that he actually had been competing in DI at 142 for a couple of years before dropping to 133 the past few years.

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The two day weigh in will play a role in his chances to make the team.

That said, if he followed the rules for an NCAA athlete and didn't use a sauna to make 57 this weekend, perhaps that will help in April when he will be permitted to use a sauna to make 57 two days in a row if he gets that far.

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To Expand on my "don't be silly" comment, last we saw him in freestyle he was struggling with Parpiev in the junior world finals. 
Yes he won gold, and yes he crushed everyone outside of that match.... that said... Parpiev has continued to compete and is a bottom of the barrel senior level guy. 
I'm not saying we can concluded that Lee is also bottom of the barrel, but I'm asking you, where are you getting that he will be an Olympic medalist?
His back to back NCAA titles? His struggles with Sebastian Rivera? If you have some info like he is teching Gilman easily let me know. 
But nothing "Spencer Lee" makes me think he is a even a Trials finalist. 
Hope he proves me wrong, but blah

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On 11/16/2019 at 9:32 PM, Eagle26 said:

Because he looks like a skeleton lol. I agree there are lots of people making tough cuts though. Just sucks there are only six Olympic weights. I think it seems worse for Gross because he is so tall and doesn’t look like he has it to lose

Micic is also cutting down to 57 (and has been for a couple years)

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3 hours ago, npope said:

I believe that that loss to Meredith was at 142 - Gross went up a weight to challenge him in the dual meet.

His recent cut to 57 kg is all the more impressive when one considers that he actually had been competing in DI at 142 for a couple of years before dropping to 133 the past few years.

Yes ! I remember that now. Incredible. 

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I am with people who think Lee can medal. Spladle your points are well taken and his record doesn’t itself support the claim that Lee is that good. For me it’s just watching Lee when he’s on. He’s just that good. And for me I also think of how many times Snyder lost every year. He didn’t make Jr World finals his second crack at it. He lost to some Russian each year he won the worlds (or most of the years). Back to Lee, when he’s on he’s just that good. 

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I am with people who think Lee can medal. Spladle your points are well taken and his record doesn’t itself support the claim that Lee is that good. For me it’s just watching Lee when he’s on. He’s just that good. And for me I also think of how many times Snyder lost every year. He didn’t make Jr World finals his second crack at it. He lost to some Russian each year he won the worlds (or most of the years). Back to Lee, when he’s on he’s just that good. 
Yeah I 100% agree he stimulates a lot of belief when he is "on" but his world titles to me just feel like the lifer 103lb 4x state champ.. where yeah you win 4 titles but against freshman every year. (Not diminishing his titles but just saying i feel like a lot of people are wrongfully translating them into senior success at one of the tougher weights... *tougher in its apparent depth, not trying to argue with anyone that there are legends here)

It'll be interesting once we see him out there in a senior FS match. If he dominates domestically I may become a believer, but as is. Fix and Gilman seem to be the class. Guys like Gross, Garret, Vitali, etc are all capable roadblocks and i just dont think Lee is head and shoulders above any of them.

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14 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

Yeah I 100% agree he stimulates a lot of belief when he is "on" but his world titles to me just feel like the lifer 103lb 4x state champ.. where yeah you win 4 titles but against freshman every year. (Not diminishing his titles but just saying i feel like a lot of people are wrongfully translating them into senior success at one of the tougher weights... *tougher in its apparent depth, not trying to argue with anyone that there are legends here)

It'll be interesting once we see him out there in a senior FS match. If he dominates domestically I may become a believer, but as is. Fix and Gilman seem to be the class. Guys like Gross, Garret, Vitali, etc are all capable roadblocks and i just dont think Lee is head and shoulders above any of them.

You speak truth. When Lee was winning his 50kg titles I looked up how the 50kg junior world champions did in senior competition. The short answer is, they didn’t. Every other junior weight has multiple examples of medalists moving onto become senior level medalists  but not 50kg. And when Mark Hall won his second junior world gold Lee tweeted Something out like “welcome to the club” and I thought that beneath that nice tweet was a bit of wishful thinking  

So Lee’s junior world tittles didn’t excite me. Another negative is is completely absence from freestyle since then. What’s the logic? Your self-declared dream is to win an Olympic gold and you don’t compete for several summers? This can’t be a plan and therefore must be circumstance, eg injury or worse. Lifting weights? Some crazy training plan? Recovery ? Personal issues that are too private to share? Doesn’t matter, it’s a lot of time off the mat.

Meanwhile Fix and Gilman have been competing like mad and all that competition makes you better. Plain and simple. 

All of the above means whatever natural talent Lee has better be that much more above Fix and Gilman not to mention Gross and Micic and Suriano and Picc for that matter.

All of the above is my head taking. The other posts are my heart talking. Lee the supremely gifted competitor who can just beat everyone because he’s a student of the sport and a true master. I have a feeling a lot of us who go on a about Lee feel this way to some extent. So far it’s paid off at NCAAs which does nothing to discourage more of the same wildly optimistic thinking.

 

 

 

 

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You speak truth. When Lee was winning his 50kg titles I looked up how the 50kg junior world champions did in senior competition. The short answer is, they didn’t. Every other junior weight has multiple examples of medalists moving onto become senior level medalists  but not 50kg. And when Mark Hall won his second junior world gold Lee tweeted Something out like “welcome to the club” and I thought that beneath that nice tweet was a bit of wishful thinking  
So Lee’s junior world tittles didn’t excite me. Another negative is is completely absence from freestyle since then. What’s the logic? Your self-declared dream is to win an Olympic gold and you don’t compete for several summers? This can’t be a plan and therefore must be circumstance, eg injury or worse. Lifting weights? Some crazy training plan? Recovery ? Personal issues that are too private to share? Doesn’t matter, it’s a lot of time off the mat.
Meanwhile Fix and Gilman have been competing like mad and all that competition makes you better. Plain and simple. 
All of the above means whatever natural talent Lee has better be that much more above Fix and Gilman not to mention Gross and Micic and Suriano and Picc for that matter.
All of the above is my head taking. The other posts are my heart talking. Lee the supremely gifted competitor who can just beat everyone because he’s a student of the sport and a true master. I have a feeling a lot of us who go on a about Lee feel this way to some extent. So far it’s paid off at NCAAs which does nothing to discourage more of the same wildly optimistic thinking.
 
 
 
 
*Tips cap

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15 minutes ago, tbert said:

He ran 3 national champs in a row. 

Might be worth a little hype.  

Kudos to following thru with his plan, now does not have to worry about it until after NCAAs.  

In the least dismissive way... NCAA National Champ* Doesn't mean a ton in seniors, in a different style of wrestling. (It just bothers me, I always see it in the facebook groups... this guy I don't know just beat an NCAA CHAMP what an upset....  I'm always like yeah he is good at Freestyle and your CHamp isnt.... you just don't know it because you dont follow free) anyway
A little hype for sure, with the way he dismantled Cruz and Nato. 
I don't think he is a clear underdog to any of the top guys, but I would like to see him wrestle a top guy. 
Your last statement has me the most curious. I hope he does wrestle a lot more freestyle between now and then but know he doesn't "Have to". 

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I see 57 as wide open with a top tier group of Fix, Gilman, Lee, Suriano, Colon, Graff, and now Gross. Before this weekend, I would have had Garrett in here and not Gross. If you give them all an equal chance to win trials and add a share for the field, that’s a 12.5% chance for each of them. I think Fix and Gilman are still the favorites by a slim margin, and I would need to see Lee compete and Graff and Colon down at weight to give a fair assessment. 

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35 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

In the least dismissive way... NCAA National Champ* Doesn't mean a ton in seniors, in a different style of wrestling. (It just bothers me, I always see it in the facebook groups... this guy I don't know just beat an NCAA CHAMP what an upset....  I'm always like yeah he is good at Freestyle and your CHamp isnt.... you just don't know it because you dont follow free) anyway
A little hype for sure, with the way he dismantled Cruz and Nato. 
I don't think he is a clear underdog to any of the top guys, but I would like to see him wrestle a top guy. 
Your last statement has me the most curious. I hope he does wrestle a lot more freestyle between now and then but know he doesn't "Have to". 

I get it about the ncaa/freestyle thing. Bothers me a bit too,.

Side note: I was watching a press conference Bono was giving the other day and a reporter asked him what the difference in styles were.  Rather than getting into explaining the details, he pretty much told they were the same.

Edited by tbert

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6 hours ago, spladle08 said:

In the least dismissive way... NCAA National Champ* Doesn't mean a ton in seniors, in a different style of wrestling. (It just bothers me, I always see it in the facebook groups... this guy I don't know just beat an NCAA CHAMP what an upset....  I'm always like yeah he is good at Freestyle and your CHamp isnt.... you just don't know it because you dont follow free) anyway
A little hype for sure, with the way he dismantled Cruz and Nato. 
I don't think he is a clear underdog to any of the top guys, but I would like to see him wrestle a top guy. 
Your last statement has me the most curious. I hope he does wrestle a lot more freestyle between now and then but know he doesn't "Have to". 

Yeah but don't the NCAA champs that Gross beat have decent Freestyle credentials?  The only one without much history is Suriano but his win over Colon has to count for something

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Yeah but don't the NCAA champs that Gross beat have decent Freestyle credentials?  The only one without much history is Suriano but his win over Colon has to count for something

The win over Colon didn't change much for me, even though I predicted Colin by tech. Just cemented he is nothing but defense, and its stellar. 
As far as I'm concerned (look at any of my previous post this week) I think he is the most stalling dude in the world, his ability to stall out top guys is amazing. Gross to score on that tilt at this end was great, but had Suriano not shot, he loses to the stall master and thats it. 
The Cruz win was the most impressive to me, I thought Cruz was better from the feet and would get a takedown or 2 and then put on his running shoes, but instead it was complete domination. 
His slow start against Miller was a little concerning, I wonder in a 2 day tourney when he is keeping his weight under control, how it will look.  Or if he meets a better wrestler early. 
Eh well, great showing, hope he competes more before Trials

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17 hours ago, spladle08 said:

In the least dismissive way... NCAA National Champ* Doesn't mean a ton in seniors, in a different style of wrestling. (It just bothers me, I always see it in the facebook groups... this guy I don't know just beat an NCAA CHAMP what an upset....  I'm always like yeah he is good at Freestyle and your CHamp isnt.... you just don't know it because you dont follow free) anyway
A little hype for sure, with the way he dismantled Cruz and Nato. 
I don't think he is a clear underdog to any of the top guys, but I would like to see him wrestle a top guy. 
Your last statement has me the most curious. I hope he does wrestle a lot more freestyle between now and then but know he doesn't "Have to". 

I 100% agree with this. Also it’s hard to gauge just how committed said NCAA champs are. For any post grad who is down on the ladder it’s easy to see how they could commit to an event but not train 100%, may not want to go But figure why not just give it a try. A certain fraction of post grads who lose in these events are halfway out the door. You just don’t know.

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Brutal cut, which he acknowledged as such. Said he almost gave up on it on the way down. I echo the concern some have expressed on two days of scratch weight but if anyone has the style to do it, it’s Gross. He can hand fight with anyone and stall a lot of guys out since he’s so dangerous when guys are in on his legs, expending the minimum energy required to get by the first match off the scale. 

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So let's say the 57kg seeds look like this:

Fix

Gilman

Graff

Colon

Gross

Lee

Suriano

NATO

Zane

Garrett

Cruz

Sanders

 

How would the tournament play out?  Wild guess with minimal thought:

NATO over Zane, Suriano over Garrett, Lee over Cruz, Gross over Sanders

Fix over NATO, Gross over Colon, Suriano over Gilman (seems likely to be a 1-1 type match), Graff over Lee (probably an upset to many, even if not by seed)

Fix over Gross, Graff over Suriano (would be crazy given they've probably wrestled a lot in the Rutgers room)

Fix over Graff

 

Thoughts?

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24 minutes ago, rpm002 said:

So let's say the 57kg seeds look like this:

Fix

Gilman

Graff

Colon

Gross

Lee

Suriano

NATO

Zane

Garrett

Cruz

Sanders

 

How would the tournament play out?  Wild guess with minimal thought:

NATO over Zane, Suriano over Garrett, Lee over Cruz, Gross over Sanders

Fix over NATO, Gross over Colon, Suriano over Gilman (seems likely to be a 1-1 type match), Graff over Lee (probably an upset to many, even if not by seed)

Fix over Gross, Graff over Suriano (would be crazy given they've probably wrestled a lot in the Rutgers room)

Fix over Graff

 

Thoughts?

Where can Lee still wrestle in order to get seeded?

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