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hammerlockthree

Lee's olympic run isn't legit

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This is one of the most ludicrous conversations. Everyone at NCAAs is mentally tough. Some more than others. Some at different times than others. Some depending. Some almost always. 
 

Consider Dake, a guy with four NCAAs and two world titles, he also has a gold medal in whining. It’s hard to square his complaining with his track record. Sometimes I think he’s anything but mentally tough. But he wins. 
 

Regarding Lee, my 2c. The more ability you need, the less mental toughness you need. A seasoned NCAA wrestler can wrestler win a high school meet against virtually anyone without breaking a sweat. Doesn’t mean he’s mentally tough just a lot better than the competition. Consistent winners are either mentally tough or just much better or some combination of the two. 

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1 hour ago, BigTimeFan said:

Consider Dake, a guy with four NCAAs and two world titles, he also has a gold medal in whining. It’s hard to square his complaining with his track record. Sometimes I think he’s anything but mentally tough. But he wins. 

I'm not trying to be like hammer but this is such a dumb comment. Since when does whining to a ref mean you aren't mentally tough? Especially a guy with Dake's history, and no, I do not necessarily mean the wins. You make it seem like he just shuts down and concedes matches after whining.

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23 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I'm not trying to be like hammer but this is such a dumb comment. Since when does whining to a ref mean you aren't mentally tough? Especially a guy with Dake's history, and no, I do not necessarily mean the wins. You make it seem like he just shuts down and concedes matches after whining.

 I agree. Dake's whining is not an indication he lacks toughness. It does indicate he tries to influence the officiating. I don't think that could even be argued against given Dake's hand gesturing and pained posturing and facial grimaces. One witnessing these spectacles might even conclude him to be a victim of poor officiating. 

But I agree he is tough. Also a big whiner.

Edited by TBar1977

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22 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I'm not trying to be like hammer but this is such a dumb comment. Since when does whining to a ref mean you aren't mentally tough? Especially a guy with Dake's history, and no, I do not necessarily mean the wins. You make it seem like he just shuts down and concedes matches after whining.

I don’t mind if you think my comment is dumb. I’ve heard worse. 

I have always thought a component of mental toughness is staying on task, being able to focus ones energies on the task at hand - that which is in your control - and away from elements beyond your control - such as how the ref is reffing. So when Dake gets all distracted in key matches (like Vs JB) I think there *is* an a lack or mental toughness. Whether or not it has impacted or will impact outcomes, I don’t know. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

 I agree. Dake's whining is not an indication he lacks toughness. It does indicate he tries to influence the officiating. I don't that could even be argued against given Dake's hand gesturing and pained posturing and facial grimaces. One witnessing these spectacles might even conclude him to be a victim of poor officiating. 

But I agree he is tough. Also a big whiner.

I don’t think mental toughness is an all or nothing proposition. Certain things get under people’s skin and drag them down. This was my point in the first place. I would regard Dake as more mentally tough if all his attention was focused on the match and not some of it on the ref. 

I mean look at some of JB’s amazing wins where he’s getting abused by the ref and does not flinch. To me in these moments JB exhibits a level of mental toughness that Dake doesn’t in similar situations. 

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30 minutes ago, BigTimeFan said:

I don’t think mental toughness is an all or nothing proposition. Certain things get under people’s skin and drag them down. This was my point in the first place. I would regard Dake as more mentally tough if all his attention was focused on the match and not some of it on the ref. 

I mean look at some of JB’s amazing wins where he’s getting abused by the ref and does not flinch. To me in these moments JB exhibits a level of mental toughness that Dake doesn’t in similar situations. 

Dake obviously thinks he can influence the refs, something I don't see in JB or the vast majority of other wrestlers for that matter. Wonder where he got this idea? 

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46 minutes ago, BigTimeFan said:

I don’t think mental toughness is an all or nothing proposition. Certain things get under people’s skin and drag them down. This was my point in the first place. I would regard Dake as more mentally tough if allI mean look at some of JB’s amazing wins where he’s getting abused by the ref and does not flinch. To me in these moments JB exhibits a level of mental toughness that Dake doesn’t in similar situations. 

What’d you think of that mental toughness when he mailed it in at the Olympics? Does that mean JB is not mentally tough now? 

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I do think that JB was super distracted in the run up to 2016 with all the blogging, appearances, videos, celeb stuff, etc. that took his focus away from why he was in Rio. It was kind of a lot.

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16 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

What’d you think of that mental toughness when he mailed it in at the Olympics? Does that mean JB is not mentally tough now? 

I think people exhibit different levels of mental toughness over time and it can depend on situations, age and other things. For some more than others. I started all this by saying that I think most NCAA wrestlers are mentally tough and some are more so than others. I think that some people have “chinks in their armor” that may reveal that in certain types of circumstances they may not be as mentally tough as is their standard.

If you want a simple yes/no, in/out, go/no-go on mental toughness then I say Lee, Dake and JB are all mentally tough, of course. 

 

 

 

 

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My obvious point is that singling out complaints to refs as a sign of mental weakness was ridiculous. Many extremely successful and tough wrestlers throughout history have complained to refs. It is part of the sport. Doing it does not mean you are not tough. The guy you used as a contrast (i.e. look how tough he is!) exhibited what I would consider much more mental weakness by mailing it in and going out in the worst possible way on the greatest stage the sport has. The irony.... I think JB is one of the mentally toughest guys we've ever had, by the way. He had a moment of weakness. It happens.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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40 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

He isn't one of the mentally toughest wrestlers in the world. Just like Lee in the context of the NCAA...

Lee is proven to be mentally tougher than Suriano, Fix, NaTo, Rivera, the kid with the blue hair, Piccinninni and a lot of others at nationals.  That is pretty good company.  One of the toughest.

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10 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

Do you think having a smart person as your avatar gives you some sort of authority? Thats how you talk, all authority and no facts.

Hammer, you silly troll... he defeated all these people or has common opponent wins or outplaced them.  In many cases after losing to them earlier in the year.

Suriano- a wrestler in tremendous shape, big for 125.  Lee defeated him in the finals.  Looked great in the third. Definitely mentally tough.

Fix- Lost to Suriano (whom Lee had beaten the year before) after beating him during the season.  Couldn't close out the match.  Looked to the ref for help.  Tough?

NaTo- Defeated Lee during the season.  Lee pins him at nationals.  Mental toughness.

Blue hair Bresser- beats Lee during the season.  Can never outplace him at nationals.

Picc- Pins Lee during the season.  Lee beats him, looking strong in the third at nationals.  Mentally tough.

Rivera- Beats Lee twice during the season.  Loses to Mueller who Lee dominated.  Who is tough?

Facts,  Bro.  Facts.

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On 11/19/2019 at 5:49 AM, AHamilton said:

Tougher than Fix in folk... look at common opponent in the finals,,,

Maybe fix is doing well internationally because "freestyle is easier than folk?"

Plus in FS Fix doesn't have to worry about getting off bottom! Not that he had much trouble in most folk matches anyway. The kid is a hulk for his weight. 

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