Jump to content

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Alwayswrestling said:

Doping does not make you the best just a cheat.

Correct. Cheating doesn't make you "the best".
However if it was just legal across the board. Maybe we would see some cool human achievements 
To be honest, I mainly just like homeruns, and Sosa, Bonds, Mcgwire.... were the BEST thing to happen to baseball.... JUICE and all. 
Some sports maybe it's not the best thing.... others though.... 
and juice head or not. Russians are GREAT AT WRESTLING
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

American views on PED'S vary widely.

In baseball the dominant view is something like, "how can you disrespect the game" and they then hand out severe penalties.

In track and field and cycling the view is, how terrible for the athlete to get a leg up on their competition through doping. Negate any records and take back any medals. Reputation of athlete ruined.

 

Then we have the NFL

The owners go out of their way to make sure there are as few of positive test results as possible by having an absolute joke of a system. The physiques of half of the players make Gadisov look like just another guy. When a rare bust does happen, the fans seem to be primarily concerned about how soon a player on their team can get back in the game. They also seem to accept explanations such as that the HGH mailed to Payton Manning's house was for his wife. Yeah, right. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Sidakov or Geduev are not allowed to go, maybe it’ll inspire JB to stick around for another cycle. :)

Also I’m not sure but if Russia’s membership is actually revoked from World Athletics, they might end up hosting but not competing in the next FIFA World Cup? That’ll be weird.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, pamela said:

If Sidakov or Geduev are not allowed to go, maybe it’ll inspire JB to stick around for another cycle. :)

Also I’m not sure but if Russia’s membership is actually revoked from World Athletics, they might end up hosting but not competing in the next FIFA World Cup? That’ll be weird.

FIFA is probably more corrupt than Russia.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For doping to be effective at the olympic level, it is all about the ability to train harder and longer correct? 
 

Meaning these guys are putting in crazy amounts of work and finding pharmaceutical methods of recovery. While yes this is technically cheating, let’s not pretend like Joe Blow is taking HGH and EPO and beating the best wrestlers in the world. 
 

Like someone else said, in Russia they view the built in advantages of America (access to nutrition, mental health, recovery) as equivalent to their gained advantage from being able to run through the Caucus mtns on EPO for hours at a time... as the same thing.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, lewiebakes said:

For doping to be effective at the olympic level, it is all about the ability to train harder and longer correct? 
 

Meaning these guys are putting in crazy amounts of work and finding pharmaceutical methods of recovery. While yes this is technically cheating, let’s not pretend like Joe Blow is taking HGH and EPO and beating the best wrestlers in the world. 
 

Like someone else said, in Russia they view the built in advantages of America (access to nutrition, mental health, recovery) as equivalent to their gained advantage from being able to run through the Caucus mtns on EPO for hours at a time... as the same thing.  

Respectfully disagree that high level wrestlers in Russia operate at a disadvantage relative to Americans.  They have whatever nutrition they want. They have more money, better coaching, better training partners, better tradition and support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Respectfully disagree that high level wrestlers in Russia operate at a disadvantage relative to Americans.  They have whatever nutrition they want. They have more money, better coaching, better training partners, better tradition and support.

I just used those as examples, the best wrestlers in Russia most likely have the best of everything, including performance enhancing drugs and the methods to beat the testing systems used to catch them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Isn't that the year we won?

... and Russia did (relatively) poorly in all three styles. No champs?

 

Askren talked about this in his most recent podcast with Dernlan.  Worth a listen.  Basically... according to Icarus, if you are Russian Putin makes you dope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, the difference in performance from the one year they were being watched closely to the next couple years is mind boggling.

... as was their impressively increased endurance in the past year. Did they just start doing hill sprints and roadwork? And why did Dagestanis who wrestled for other countries while training in Dagestan get such amazing endurance boosts?

Edited by AHamilton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate to agree because I grew up idolizing the Russians. Nobody can take their technical innovation and proficiency away, but there is too much evidence pointing to cheating by most to ignore. The only argument I can think of against every Russian champ doping is how many get caught. It’s not that hard to benefit from PEDs without getting caught if you have the resources, which the Russians clearly do. I can’t imagine they’re just that careless, but who really knows. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I hate to agree because I grew up idolizing the Russians. Nobody can take their technical innovation and proficiency away, but there is too much evidence pointing to cheating by most to ignore. The only argument I can think of against every Russian champ doping is how many get caught. It’s not that hard to benefit from PEDs without getting caught if you have the resources, which the Russians clearly do. I can’t imagine they’re just that careless, but who really knows. 

A lot get caught, but well after the fact... as we are seeing now.  And for the ones who are being caught, how many are missed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, AHamilton said:

A lot get caught, but well after the fact... as we are seeing now.  And for the ones who are being caught, how many are missed?

Exactly. The controversy is that the doping data that Russia ADA submitted contained thousands of records that were modified or expunged (and that they messed with a Russian whistleblower who exposed this), so there's no way to know which Russian athletes in 2020 are or have been clean. The president of the IOC doesn't want to blanket-ban Russia because a portion of the falsified doping records are for athletes who are now retired and in positions of public power, etc., and that an outright ban would punish innocent Russian competitors - even though it was a state-sponsored doping program. But how are they supposed to penalize Russia otherwise?

WADA is meeting next Monday to discuss and formalize sanction recommendations to the IOC, which Russia will no doubt appeal, but it's just bizarre for the head of the IOC to preemptively say there will be no ban, and the whole thing just reeks of corruption and/or incompetence. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/27/2019 at 1:45 PM, pamela said:

If Sidakov or Geduev are not allowed to go, maybe it’ll inspire JB to stick around for another cycle. :)

Also I’m not sure but if Russia’s membership is actually revoked from World Athletics, they might end up hosting but not competing in the next FIFA World Cup? That’ll be weird.

The world cup was in Russia last year. In 2022 it'll be held in Qatar of all places, then 2026 in the good ol' USA.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TripNSweep said:

The world cup was in Russia last year. In 2022 it'll be held in Qatar of all places, then 2026 in the good ol' USA.  

Thanks for catching that. I misread and thought maybe they were cohosting, though geographically it would make no sense!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, pamela said:

Thanks for catching that. I misread and thought maybe they were cohosting, though geographically it would make no sense!

From all accounts it wasn't a bad world cup.  No problems for fans really.  Qatar will be more interesting since it'll be in the fall season and alcohol is technically illegal to consume there.  At least flying there won't be an issue, their airport looks more like a shopping mall than an airport and is pretty easy to navigate your way around and getting through customs is pretty efficient.  I wish I'd gotten to see more of the country but oh well.  At least the lounge was nice lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To the poster that said he hoped Kyle would be more competitive with Sads, I have to respond.  Sads fluked him last time.  No way that match is anything other than a barn burner if Kyle hadn't gotten caught.  I would give Sadulaev the edge, but Kyle is the only man on the planet that can beat Sads.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Peso said:

To the poster that said he hoped Kyle would be more competitive with Sads, I have to respond.  Sads fluked him last time.  No way that match is anything other than a barn burner if Kyle hadn't gotten caught.  I would give Sadulaev the edge, but Kyle is the only man on the planet that can beat Sads.

 

I would give J'Den and Bo a chance.

Edited by Mokoma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...