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klehner

A peek inside grey-shirting

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2 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Cornell needs to stop doing this or just leave the Ivy league so they can do a legitimate redshirt.  Realistically they don't fit in with the rest of the Ivies anyway-might as well just make it official.  

Sure, Billy.  I'll tell you what - I'll bring up your suggestion at the next Trustee's Meeting, OK?

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12 minutes ago, red blades said:

Sure, Billy.  I'll tell you what - I'll bring up your suggestion at the next Trustee's Meeting, OK?

Redshirting athletes or being in the Ivy league.  Pick one.  Or do you think Ivy athletes should be able to redshirt (i.e. you don't believe their education should be done in four years and that academics should take priority over athletics)?

Edited by Billyhoyle

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1 minute ago, Billyhoyle said:

Redshirting athletes or being in the Ivy league.  Pick one.  

They chose being in the Ivy League, since being enrolled in school burns NCAA eligibility.  What's your point in the above, again?

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4 minutes ago, klehner said:

They chose being in the Ivy League, since being enrolled in school burns NCAA eligibility.  What's your point in the above, again?

Except they get around the rule by having athletes reside and train locally while not being enrolled in classes at Cornell. This is even worse than the traditional redshirt, since at least with a redshirt the athletes could take classes at Cornell.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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No opinion. I think it's less objectionable than giving guys a couple years as "missionaries" before starting their careers. 

While on the topic of delayed enrollment, what's to stop a guy from joining the Army, serving a 6 year term (and wrestling the entire time in open tournaments and such), and enrolling as a 24 or 25 year old TRUE FRESHMAN? Didn't Couture do something like that? Can you imagine how big an advantage the older guy would have in a situation like that? 

Edited by TobusRex

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2 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

No opinion. I think it's less objectionable than giving guys a couple years as "missionaries" before starting their careers. 

While on the topic of delayed enrollment, what's to stop a guy from joining the Army, serving a 6 year term (and wrestling the entire time in open tournaments and such), and enrolling as a 24 or 25 year old TRUE FRESHMAN? Didn't Couture do something like that? Can you imagine how big an advantage the older guy would have in a situation like that? 

The point is that the ivy league has a specific rule that bars redshirting.  They don't have a rule against people choosing to serve on a mission or in the military.  Cornell gets around this rule and has created a situation even worse than a redshirt-they therefore either need to stop breaking the rule or leave the ivy league.  But they don't want to make that choice-they want to say they're an ivy league school, because some people think being affiliated with that athletic conference is prestigious, without having to follow the rules of the league.  

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3 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

What's wrong with that statement?

Grayshirting is mainly non-technical term generally associated with taking a year between HS and college. It's not usually meant to be the year that a kid leaves the IVY school in an attempt to mimic a redshirt so I dispute the one statement about the Princeton kids this year (other than Kolodzik) although again not terribly a big deal since the term is non-technical. 

Lewis was just stating a fact that he didn't have to take any courses in the grayshirt year but is anyway.

See the discussion supra.

Edited by witwhiz

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28 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Redshirting athletes or being in the Ivy league.  Pick one.  Or do you think Ivy athletes should be able to redshirt (i.e. you don't believe their education should be done in four years and that academics should take priority over athletics)?

Ya know Billy - I've got a better idea - you make such a great case yourself, that I think YOU should go and present it to the Trustees!

Next meeting is Dec. 25th - 9:00 PM - top floor of McGraw Tower.  Go for it!!

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1 hour ago, Billyhoyle said:

Are the princeton guys training locally at the NJ RTC?  If so they need to stop this too. 

Nolan Hellickson Leo Tarantino and Joshua Kim were starters for Harvard last year and are registered for the GMU Open this weekend with the Boston RTC.  Theyre taking the year off from school. Kim and Tarantino were freshmen last year. Columbia wrestlers signed up under their RTC at opens this year also. 

Edited by RedFan

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38 minutes ago, witwhiz said:

 Still waiting for an answer to my question of who pays for/provides what when a kid is a member of the FLRC.

Mom and Dad, Grampa, Aunt Betty - take your pick.  I don't know for sure (and I doubt you know either) but I'd be pretty darn sure it's not Cornell, nor any other Ivy League school.

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3 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

How can one enroll in community college and not take courses?  That seems pretty fishy to me.  As I understand it, redshirts still have to take courses.

There is nothing fishy at all about what they are doing.  ANYONE can do this. 

 

You could start college a yr after you graduate and go to the Olympic training center, then start school the following year.  

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16 minutes ago, RedFan said:

Nolan Hellickson and Joshua Kim were starters for Harvard last year and are registered for the GMU Open this weekend with the Boston RTC.  Kim was a freshman last year. Columbia wrestlers have signed up under their RTC at opens this year also. 

The Ivy League is getting smaller and smaller, it would seem.

As for who pays for FLRTC members:  I believe that the parents of a former Cornell standout have a house that is made available to RTC members.  No idea of the cost (if any) to the members.

"Greyshirt" is a term that is applied to wrestlers who are taking a gap year between graduating high school and matriculating at Cornell; the gap year is available to every single student accepted at Cornell, and at every other Ivy League school, and probably at every single school in the country.  Heck, even the US Military academy has the equivalent (USMAPS).

"Congratulations on your acceptance at Cornell!  Yes, you can defer your enrollment for a year to pursue your goals prior to matriculating.  However, the one thing you cannot do is participate in the FL RTC.  Sorry."

Sheesh.

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31 minutes ago, RedFan said:

Nolan Hellickson Leo Tarantino and Joshua Kim were starters for Harvard last year and are registered for the GMU Open this weekend with the Boston RTC.  Theyre taking the year off from school. Kim and Tarantino were freshmen last year. Columbia wrestlers signed up under their RTC at opens this year also. 

Then they’re probably all skirting the rules too.  I do think it’s fair to pick on Cornell a bit because it’s pretty much standard procedure for Cornell recruits to spend a year at FLCC before enrolling at Cornell, essentially mimicking a traditional redshirt; whereas it seems the other schools just have guys do it here and there, often times after they’ve already competed for several seasons.

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1 hour ago, Billyhoyle said:

Cornell needs to stop doing this or just leave the Ivy league so they can do a legitimate redshirt.  Realistically they don't fit in with the rest of the Ivies anyway-might as well just make it official.  

They are not doing ANYTHING wrong. Any other wrestler can do the exact same thing.  And many have.  It is a very smart move. 

 

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2 minutes ago, klehner said:

As for who pays for FLRTC members:  I believe that the parents of a former Cornell standout have a house that is made available to RTC members.  No idea of the cost (if any) to the members.

If this is true and includes wrestlers who still have college eligibility, then I think that certainly qualifies as “fishy.”

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3 hours ago, nom said:

Not a fan of redshirts or greyshirts.  Go to college, learn, get into the world and start your adult life and add value.  A year less of income, retirement savings, experience etc.  

First world problems I suppose.  Tons of money slushing around that makes getting a job less important.

Wow.   None of that makes any sense. what if you plan on making wrestling your career.  Such as wrestling on the Senior level or coaching???  Many wrestlers have this plan.  None of these kids should be in any rush at all to "grow up"  

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1 hour ago, witwhiz said:

 Still waiting for an answer to my question of who pays for/provides what when a kid is a member of the FLRC.

The same type of people who paid for Beard's and other deferred enrolled wrestlers apartment, food, etc...in State College last year.

Edited by Boompa

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Well, as an alumnus - I don't have an issue with greyshirting.  And while I'm no lawyer, I'd be pretty sure that enough lawyers have checked out the concept and confirmed that at the very least, the letter of the rule is being met.  If others question if the spirit of the rule is in question - that's OK.  For those that do, you have the choice to not send your kids to Cornell, or any other Ivy League university for that matter.

Ya'll sleep well tonight, OK?

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7 minutes ago, red blades said:

Well, as an alumnus - I don't have an issue with greyshirting.  And while I'm no lawyer, I'd be pretty sure that enough lawyers have checked out the concept and confirmed that at the very least, the letter of the rule is being met.  If others question if the spirit of the rule is in question - that's OK.  For those that do, you have the choice to not send your kids to Cornell, or any other Ivy League university for that matter.

Ya'll sleep well tonight, OK?

The point is that the rest of the ivy league has to compete against Cornell even though Cornell is breaking this rule.  What if Harvard offers its athletes scholarships under the table?  Would that be OK with you as well? Easy solution: Cornell leaves the ivy league but stays affiliated with the EIWA.  That or they stop redshirting their athletes.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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2 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

The point is that the rest of the ivy league has to compete against Cornell even though Cornell is breaking this rule.  

Billy I'll try to speak slowly and use small words just for you!  They... aren't... breaking.... any... rules.  This has all been checked out.  And all of the other ivies are doing the same thing.  In fact, as I've written before - Penn and Harvard started the practice years ago.

 

G'night, Billy!

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1 hour ago, TobusRex said:

No opinion. I think it's less objectionable than giving guys a couple years as "missionaries" before starting their careers. 

While on the topic of delayed enrollment, what's to stop a guy from joining the Army, serving a 6 year term (and wrestling the entire time in open tournaments and such), and enrolling as a 24 or 25 year old TRUE FRESHMAN? Didn't Couture do something like that? Can you imagine how big an advantage the older guy would have in a situation like that? 

You can do that. AND join the All Army or All Marines team.  For 4, 6, 8 yrs or more. Then enroll in college. Nothing wrong with that. I kind of did that.  Except I wrestled for the Navy's southern Pacific team, as a Marine.  Then enrolled at a junior college, with plans to transfer to a D3 school....until they dropped their team.  

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