Jump to content
Marcus Cisero

Steveson vs Kerkvliet

Recommended Posts

Unpopular opinion and sounds like PSU bashing, but I’m a big Ohio state fan and I said the same thing when he was there. 
  
he is a super talent, but I’m not convinced he will be as good as many of the recent #1 recruits have been. 
 

1. ACL tear - he didn’t get it fixed. I’m not a doctor, but man at higher weights especially this seems one scramble away from season ending at all times. 
 

2. mental - he is super tough mentally of course, but it seems like he wants everything to be about him. I respect this mindset, but also it doesn’t play well in college. Snyder leaving tOSU I totally get. Being selfish on the senior level makes sense. It is way tougher to do in college without pissing off your entire team. He also committed to what, 4 places now? He has the talent and drive to be a 4 time AA and couple time champ (assuming Gable isn’t around. I also think Schultz and Parris could give him trouble). 
 

3. Cultural fit. He doesn’t seem like a good fit. I don’t know what I’m talking about, but that’s the vibe I get. PSU guys are selfish when they need to be, but they are always there for each other. Cael is an amazing coach, but the team is next level good because everyone helps each other out. Nick Lee has RBY and Zain. Nolf had Cenzo and Hall. Cenzo has Nolf, Hall, Shakur. Hall had Cenzo, Nolf, Bo and Cassar. Etc. crazy crazy room where guys lifted each other up every day. Kerklevit doesn’t seem like that guy to me. 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

3. Cultural fit. He doesn’t seem like a good fit. I don’t know what I’m talking about, but that’s the vibe I get. PSU guys are selfish when they need to be, but they are always there for each other. Cael is an amazing coach, but the team is next level good because everyone helps each other out. Nick Lee has RBY and Zain. Nolf had Cenzo and Hall. Cenzo has Nolf, Hall, Shakur. Hall had Cenzo, Nolf, Bo and Cassar. Etc. crazy crazy room where guys lifted each other up every day. Kerklevit doesn’t seem like that guy to me. 
 

Don't know the kid from anyone else, aside from having watched him wrestle, but I get this vibe too. Same reason it wasn't the right place for Suriano. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

Housebuy, pretty sure a bunch of PSU/NLWC spent time with Kerkvliet on those World teams, and this includes Coach Sanderson. I trust their judgment and if they think he is a good fit then I see no reason to question it.

 

I disagree. Kerklevit is a #1 recruit without any major baggage (no arrests or anything). Every single school wants him, including PSU. He is good enough to be an AA right out of the gate. 
 

when I say not a good cultural fit, I mean like Suriano. There is nothing wrong with it per say, just that it isn’t the right fit. 
 

Both Suriano and PSU would’ve been better off if he had not gone there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never get all the complaining about $ and the RTCs. You all have wealthy alumni. Go beat the bushes and raise the funds to do what you want to do. Quite frankly, it should be easier to raise money for the sport of wrestling from historically dominant schools.

https://www.businessinsider.com/richest-alumni-big-ten-2011-4

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, headshuck said:

Will anyone ever notice that it appears PSU is buying NCAA championships with RTC dollars? Seems more and more blatant.

Interesting thought.  How do they front this money?

Here are my knee jerk reactions to financial part of this transfer:

1)PSU has zero scholarship money for him next semester.

2)Therefore, his parents have money to pay.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Housebuye said:

Unpopular opinion and sounds like PSU bashing, but I’m a big Ohio state fan and I said the same thing when he was there. 
  
he is a super talent, but I’m not convinced he will be as good as many of the recent #1 recruits have been. 
 

1. ACL tear - he didn’t get it fixed. I’m not a doctor, but man at higher weights especially this seems one scramble away from season ending at all times. 
 

2. mental - he is super tough mentally of course, but it seems like he wants everything to be about him. I respect this mindset, but also it doesn’t play well in college. Snyder leaving tOSU I totally get. Being selfish on the senior level makes sense. It is way tougher to do in college without pissing off your entire team. He also committed to what, 4 places now? He has the talent and drive to be a 4 time AA and couple time champ (assuming Gable isn’t around. I also think Schultz and Parris could give him trouble). 
 

3. Cultural fit. He doesn’t seem like a good fit. I don’t know what I’m talking about, but that’s the vibe I get. PSU guys are selfish when they need to be, but they are always there for each other. Cael is an amazing coach, but the team is next level good because everyone helps each other out. Nick Lee has RBY and Zain. Nolf had Cenzo and Hall. Cenzo has Nolf, Hall, Shakur. Hall had Cenzo, Nolf, Bo and Cassar. Etc. crazy crazy room where guys lifted each other up every day. Kerklevit doesn’t seem like that guy to me. 
 

I agree with #1. I wondered if gaining 20 to 30 lbs of muscle with a bum knee would have long term affects. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

I disagree. Kerklevit is a #1 recruit without any major baggage (no arrests or anything). Every single school wants him, including PSU. He is good enough to be an AA right out of the gate. 
 

when I say not a good cultural fit, I mean like Suriano. There is nothing wrong with it per say, just that it isn’t the right fit. 
 

Both Suriano and PSU would’ve been better off if he had not gone there. 

I think the Suriano not being a cultural fit at PSU thing was blown out of proportion.   Had he not gotten the injury and what he felt was bad advice, he might still be there.  And if anything, I'd bet it was more the overall culture fit of PSU the school/location, not the wrestling team.   He was on one of the best teams in the country in HS and didn't seem to have any issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I think the Suriano not being a cultural fit at PSU thing was blown out of proportion.   Had he not gotten the injury and what he felt was bad advice, he might still be there.  And if anything, I'd bet it was more the overall culture fit of PSU the school/location, not the wrestling team.   He was on one of the best teams in the country in HS and didn't seem to have any issues.

Could be. I don’t agree with that last point being relevant though. He was the star of that team and could do his own thing if he wanted to. At PSU he was one of the good up and comers, but probably the 6th or 7th best on the team (at the time). Being middle of the pack doesn’t give you a ton of leeway.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gopher82 said:

The good news is they all have to wrestle eachother if they want to make the Olympics. 

I personally can't wait to see Gable and Cassar in freestyle.  

I know right? Like we assume Cassar will transfer over well, but Gable is a freestyle savant and understands the nuances better than most. Cassar comaprigely is a novice, junior results not withstanding. 
  
Still, I don’t feel confident either way. Cassar just has something special. Would anyone be that shocked to see him make a JB type run (2011 JB, I don’t mean 4000 golds). Obviously it is unlikely, but similar to JB Cassar seems to have come into his own later on in his college career, has elite athleticism (speed and power), work ethic, strong mindset and elite coaching. Crazier things have happened. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Housebuye said:

Unpopular opinion and sounds like PSU bashing, but I’m a big Ohio state fan and I said the same thing when he was there. 
  
he is a super talent, but I’m not convinced he will be as good as many of the recent #1 recruits have been. 
 

1. ACL tear - he didn’t get it fixed. I’m not a doctor, but man at higher weights especially this seems one scramble away from season ending at all times. 
 

2. mental - he is super tough mentally of course, but it seems like he wants everything to be about him. I respect this mindset, but also it doesn’t play well in college. Snyder leaving tOSU I totally get. Being selfish on the senior level makes sense. It is way tougher to do in college without pissing off your entire team. He also committed to what, 4 places now? He has the talent and drive to be a 4 time AA and couple time champ (assuming Gable isn’t around. I also think Schultz and Parris could give him trouble). 
 

3. Cultural fit. He doesn’t seem like a good fit. I don’t know what I’m talking about, but that’s the vibe I get. PSU guys are selfish when they need to be, but they are always there for each other. Cael is an amazing coach, but the team is next level good because everyone helps each other out. Nick Lee has RBY and Zain. Nolf had Cenzo and Hall. Cenzo has Nolf, Hall, Shakur. Hall had Cenzo, Nolf, Bo and Cassar. Etc. crazy crazy room where guys lifted each other up every day. Kerklevit doesn’t seem like that guy to me. 
 

Also a tOSU fan.  

I share the same #1 concern about the ACL Tear.  Was concerned when he was a Buckeye, and am concerned still.  Agreed that he's only a scramble away from ending not only his season, but potentially his career.  

I share the same #2 concern about his apparent lack of commitment.  Life is fickle (not Luke).  There's a level of loyalty that you pay to your family (high), friends (lower), company/institution (even lower yet).  It should be >0.  Companies / Universities invest in their employees/students similarly.  Door a poor job (in their eyes) at either and you get fired or expelled.  I'm NOT suggesting that he has to have some undying loyalty to whichever college/company, as that's just stupid.  It just has to be a little more than what he's shown thus far, which is VERY little.  Lack of performance at PSU could cost him dearly.  

I do not necessarily share the same concern as #3.  Time will tell.  However, there is an almost congruence with Housebuye's #3 argument and my interpretation of the #2 argument.  That team has each other, and if they consider Kerk as a flight risk for the next shiny new object, then that could make him a "bad fit". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, headshuck said:

Will anyone ever notice that it appears PSU is buying NCAA championships with RTC dollars? Seems more and more blatant.

Shuck, everyone knows that the recruits are willing to pay the 50K a year tuition on a 1/4 scholarship  because they just want to have fun.   Any money promised to them after they graduate is outside of the University's and the NCAA's purview and does not have to be, nor is ever disclosed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, 82bordeaux said:

I never get all the complaining about $ and the RTCs. You all have wealthy alumni. Go beat the bushes and raise the funds to do what you want to do. Quite frankly, it should be easier to raise money for the sport of wrestling from historically dominant schools.

https://www.businessinsider.com/richest-alumni-big-ten-2011-4

 

interesting article for sure, but brushing it under the table as "you all have wealthy alumni" is pretty naive.

we're in the era of a blatant loophole in NCAA regulation and while some are able to take advantage, most are not.

I just hope things get wrangled in before our sport ends up on an ESPN 30 for 30 documentary like Southern Methodist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Witherman said:

interesting article for sure, but brushing it under the table as "you all have wealthy alumni" is pretty naive.

we're in the era of a blatant loophole in NCAA regulation and while some are able to take advantage, most are not.

I just hope things get wrangled in before our sport ends up on an ESPN 30 for 30 documentary like Southern Methodist.

Some wrestlers are better than others too. Some coaches are better. Some fan bases are more willing to fund their RTCs. That is life. They are not going to ruin our Oly Wrestling program because School X can't compete or has a lousy coach. 

Edited by TBar1977

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Witherman said:

interesting article for sure, but brushing it under the table as "you all have wealthy alumni" is pretty naive.

we're in the era of a blatant loophole in NCAA regulation and while some are able to take advantage, most are not.

I just hope things get wrangled in before our sport ends up on an ESPN 30 for 30 documentary like Southern Methodist.

Comparing the legitimate building of an RTC, School Wrestling Club, and recruiting to SMU in the 80's is a joke. Rutgers and tOSU have built superior complexes to PSU. It is where they have chosen to spend the money. The NLWC is funded to be the premier RTC in the country. If other major players follow, it will strengthen the sport across the board. It's about choices. The funding is out there. Go to work and get it done or choose not to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure why anyone is bashing the kid. He decommitted from Minnesota when Gable committed. Neither wanted to ride the pine, Kerk was younger, he admitted that Gable who himself was a reigning world champion may block him from starting until his senior year. Not sure why he committed to OkSt but probably realized there is no upperweights to work with, and Smith would have had him cut down to 197 rather than bulk up for bigger picture goals. Decommitted from Ohio State when Snyder left which makes sense given his goals on the world stage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

PSU is subject to the same 9.9 as your Lake Wobegon Gophs. 

This is true. What is also true is that PSU can tell every single recruit they will be guaranteed to be PAID to wrestle for the RTC upon graduation.

I don’t care I like RTCs and donate annually  to VTs but don’t act like there aren’t promises made during a prospects junior year of high school.

Edited by HokieHWT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Housebuye said:

I know right? Like we assume Cassar will transfer over well, but Gable is a freestyle savant and understands the nuances better than most. Cassar comaprigely is a novice, junior results not withstanding. 
  
Still, I don’t feel confident either way. Cassar just has something special. Would anyone be that shocked to see him make a JB type run (2011 JB, I don’t mean 4000 golds). Obviously it is unlikely, but similar to JB Cassar seems to have come into his own later on in his college career, has elite athleticism (speed and power), work ethic, strong mindset and elite coaching. Crazier things have happened. 

Id’d be pretty dang surprised if he had a JB type run. His competition will be fierce and are we sure he’s even the best of the current group in free? Have we seen him in any freestyle evens since the 2015 Junior Worlds? Given his folk success and style he obviously has the potential to be very good but we really don’t have much to go on for how good he is at freestyle at this point in time and he’ll be 24 and entering his first major freestyle competition in a while when potentially competing at next year’s Olympic trials. Gwiz is already a 2 time bronze medalist and only 26. Gable Steveson is a 2 time cadet and 1 time Junior World champ. Mason Parris absolutely ran through Junior Worlds this year. Kerkvliet is a cadet world champ and Junior World silver medalist. So lots and lots of competition to get through every year and no other weights to go down to except 97 where Snyder and maybe Cox would be waiting. 

Edited by Divided42

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...