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nhs67

Parris over Gwiz?

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So... Parris pins Zare of Iran in the finals of Junior Worlds.

Zare just techfalled Gwiz 10-0 at the Alan's Tourney in Russia.

Does this mean that Parris will be, may be, or has no effect on him being seeded first come OTT?

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Lost in this conversation is the fact that Parris pinned Zare (while losing though it was early) with his fireman's dump. Parris gives a ton of people trouble with this dump at heavyweight because most of them have never felt anything like it. Think about what he did to Amar Dhesi last year. However, if you're ready for it, you can stop it. It''s just really hard to stop if you've never felt it.

As to the seeding question, no this will not have any effect.

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Just now, nhs67 said:

Gents... I am referring to seeding, which uses Freestyle results only, yes?

Yes and US qualifying tournament seeding rarely (if ever?) uses common international opponents, so no, it's not likely to affect seeding. Parris' seed will be determined on domestic results. Is he even qualified yet?

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5 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

Yes and US qualifying tournament seeding rarely (if ever?) uses common international opponents, so no, it's not likely to affect seeding. Parris' seed will be determined on domestic results. Is he even qualified yet?

Yes. He was the first heavyweight qualified by winning Junior Gold.

Eh... 

Make that 2nd behind Gwiz and before Steveson. Air-headed me forgot team members from this cycle automatically qualify. 

Edited by nhs67
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Well hopefully this is just a bump in the road for Gwizz. But on the other side of this, I am kind of excited to see Parris competing for a Senior team spot. It also seems that we are looking pretty good for the US Team at heavyweight with Gwizz, Gable, Cassar, and Parris. 

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23 minutes ago, de4856 said:

Well hopefully this is just a bump in the road for Gwizz. But on the other side of this, I am kind of excited to see Parris competing for a Senior team spot. It also seems that we are looking pretty good for the US Team at heavyweight with Gwizz, Gable, Cassar, and Parris. 

And Kerk.  Can't rule him out.

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4 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

And Kerk.  Can't rule him out.

The Russian that made Kerk look like a boy in a 10-0 techfall loss at U23 was made infantile in appearance in a 10-0 techfall loss to Zare in the finals his very next match, FWIW.

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1 hour ago, uncle bernard said:

Lost in this conversation is the fact that Parris pinned Zare (while losing though it was early) with his fireman's dump. Parris gives a ton of people trouble with this dump at heavyweight because most of them have never felt anything like it. Think about what he did to Amar Dhesi last year. However, if you're ready for it, you can stop it. It''s just really hard to stop if you've never felt it.

As to the seeding question, no this will not have any effect.

Saying Parris was losing is a bit disingenuous. It was 1-1. Zaire did have the “lead”. But scoring was even. 
 

Also I’m not sure the conclusion you are drawing is accurate. Parris doesn’t have a history of beating people then after they figure him out they beat him consistently. I think it’s more of a match up thing.  Some people match up better against that style and some don’t.  Zare’s style makes him vulnerable to that dump. Cassar and Conan Jennings for example are quite the opposite. I don’t see Zare stopping his right hand underhook the next time they meet. Which would make him open to it again. But I could be wrong. 

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20 minutes ago, Regulator said:

Saying Parris was losing is a bit disingenuous. It was 1-1. Zaire did have the “lead”. But scoring was even. 
 

Also I’m not sure the conclusion you are drawing is accurate. Parris doesn’t have a history of beating people then after they figure him out they beat him consistently. I think it’s more of a match up thing.  Some people match up better against that style and some don’t.  Zare’s style makes him vulnerable to that dump. Cassar and Conan Jennings for example are quite the opposite. I don’t see Zare stopping his right hand underhook the next time they meet. Which would make him open to it again. But I could be wrong. 

Yeah I think we're in agreement. My point was that some guys can stop the dump. Others look completely lost against it and it can lead to him having some surprising results, like the major of Dhesi and the Zare win. 

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

The Russian that made Kerk look like a boy in a 10-0 techfall loss at U23 was made infantile in appearance in a 10-0 techfall loss to Zare in the finals his very next match, FWIW.

One match does not predicate the results of all matches.  Mason is good for sure, but I fear a rematch with Zare may have a different result.  Kerk as well... May have a different result.  May be closer, may not be.  Point is... They're all on the conversation. 

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1 hour ago, treep2000 said:

One match does not predicate the results of all matches.  Mason is good for sure, but I fear a rematch with Zare may have a different result.  Kerk as well... May have a different result.  May be closer, may not be.  Point is... They're all on the conversation. 

I put Parris under Kerk in peak performance right now.

This thread is merely to see if anyone believes Parris beating Zare gives him seeding criteria over Gwiz.

I get it either way.

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No.

One day, maybe. Today is not that day and OTT won’t be either. Parris is about 5 years from his peak, and I’m a believer based on his current trajectory. But he will have to pay his dues under Gwiz, Steveson, Nelson, Coon, etc until his sky-is-the-limit ceiling can be realized. I think he can medal in 2025 or 2026 and is a good draw away from a world finals in ‘26 or ‘27 if he puts it all together and has the world team spot. Good problem for the US to have.

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5 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

No.

One day, maybe. Today is not that day and OTT won’t be either. Parris is about 5 years from his peak, and I’m a believer based on his current trajectory. But he will have to pay his dues under Gwiz, Steveson, Nelson, Coon, etc until his sky-is-the-limit ceiling can be realized. I think he can medal in 2025 or 2026 and is a good draw away from a world finals in ‘26 or ‘27 if he puts it all together and has the world team spot. Good problem for the US to have.

Disagree. I think trials will show that Parris is at the same level or better than everyone you mentioned. 

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15 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

No.

One day, maybe. Today is not that day and OTT won’t be either. Parris is about 5 years from his peak, and I’m a believer based on his current trajectory. But he will have to pay his dues under Gwiz, Steveson, Nelson, Coon, etc until his sky-is-the-limit ceiling can be realized. I think he can medal in 2025 or 2026 and is a good draw away from a world finals in ‘26 or ‘27 if he puts it all together and has the world team spot. Good problem for the US to have.

Read the OP.

If we are going off Freestyle results this last season and this freestyle season, Parris defeated U23 World Champ Zare via pinball. Gwiz was just techfalled by him 10-0.

I am not speaking on aptitude or ability... just results.

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@nhs67 I’m going off the fact that A vs. B vs. C results are not a transitive property, plus in my opinion agree with others that Parris’ dump catches big guys off guard and he was able to do it on the biggest stage yet in his career. I hope he has improved enough to compete at the next level. I’m just not convinced... yet

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Just now, bnwtwg said:

@nhs67 I’m going off the fact that A vs. B vs. C results are not a transitive property, plus in my opinion agree with others that Parris’ dump catches big guys off guard and he was able to do it on the biggest stage yet in his career. I hope he has improved enough to compete at the next level. I’m just not convinced... yet

Bro. The question is about seeding.

Get a grip. I am not challenging Gwiz's ability or likelihood in defeating Parris.

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Zare also beat the defending world champ a month or two ago. He has seemed to have jumped levels since junior worlds...or Mason is way better than we think. I'm leaning towards the former. Mason is a dark horse threat, but Gwiz, Gable and maybe Cassar are heavy favorites. Maybe Mason is in the next tier with Dom Bradley, Yousif Hemida, and a few others.

 

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