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Abdullahgadzhi Khuzin

Russia is banned by WADA for 4 years

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15 hours ago, FriendlyCamper said:

Can you define "Pro-Russian"

Well for comparison I browsed some discussion about this news on Reddit and there were a lot of high-rating comments were along the lines that Russia is a 'disgusting' country  with an endless list of crimes populated by neanderthals and the world would be a much better place if it simply didn't exist.

I mean cheating at sports games is bad mmmkay but that seemed a bit much to me. As for the rest of it let's just say I have a much more positive opinion about Russian people, culture, and yes even it's role in the world today, that the fair and tolerant people of Reddit.
However I'm not American so I'm allowed to think that way if I want ;)

 

Oh and I guess some of their wrestlers are fun to watch as well...

Edited by ufo

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1 hour ago, ufo said:

Well for comparison I browsed some discussion about this news on Reddit and there were a lot of high-rating comments were along the lines that Russia is a 'disgusting' country  with an endless list of crimes populated by neanderthals and the world would be a much better place if it simply didn't exist.

I mean cheating at sports games is bad mmmkay but that seemed a bit much to me. As for the rest of it let's just say I have a much more positive opinion about Russian people, culture, and yes even it's role in the world today, that the fair and tolerant people of Reddit.
However I'm not American so I'm allowed to think that way if I want ;)

 

Oh and I guess some of their wrestlers are fun to watch as well...

I'm no collusionist, yet I believe that approximately 150 million Russians are  whoman beans. I'm from 'Murika too. Plateful of bacon, glock, and coffee breakfast and all.

Edited by nhs67
Fat fingers...

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17 hours ago, pamela said:

Russia has pretty much all the MFS weights already qualified, so it’ll just be a matter of picking the neutral-nation rep. Not sure about WFS or Greco. The Olympics wouldn’t be the same without a full Russian team and I want them to compete, but it would be an outright embarrassment if the IOC allowed it after what Russia pulled last time.

Is that how it works, though? (Serious question) Do Russia's qualifications just move to the neutral flag team rather than being thrown out with team Russia? Can only Russian wrestlers compete for this neutral flag given it's not supposed to represent the nation? Also, how will the selection for this neutral team work? Will Russia hold a qualification tournament?

If the qualifications don't automatically carry over, I would assume the wrestlers would have to qualify themselves, and that would be how they are allowed to compete under a neutral flag.  This is what would make sense to me, anyways.

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2 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

Is that how it works, though? (Serious question) Do Russia's qualifications just move to the neutral flag team rather than being thrown out with team Russia? Can only Russian wrestlers compete for this neutral flag given it's not supposed to represent the nation? Also, how will the selection for this neutral team work? Will Russia hold a qualification tournament?

If the qualifications don't automatically carry over, I would assume the wrestlers would have to qualify themselves, and that would be how they are allowed to compete under a neutral flag.  This is what would make sense to me, anyways.

I assumed that the wrestlers who qualified the weight get the bid, not the neutral team.

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7 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I assumed that the wrestlers who qualified the weight get the bid, not the neutral team.

That would mean there is no team selection tournament (not that Russia always uses that to choose their team member).

Would that leave the option open for additional Russian's to go to a qualification tournament and qualify? Or can there only be one qualifier per weight for the neutral flag? If not, then there would be no way for a Russian to challenge an already qualified wrestler for the Olympic spot.

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15 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I assumed that the wrestlers who qualified the weight get the bid, not the neutral team.

When the weight is qualified it is for the nation, not the individual. That’s why JB for example still has to go through the OTT. 

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9 minutes ago, Lurker said:

When the weight is qualified it is for the nation, not the individual. That’s why JB for example still has to go through the OTT. 

Yes. Russia the country is being banned, though. Extraordinary circumstances and all, I assumed the selection process of said banned country would not be enacted.

That is my assumption. I am likely wrong. I understand that. I would even go as far to wager that Putin is more in the know, and will be when all is said and done, on how the process will go than anyone on these boards.

15 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

That would mean there is no team selection tournament (not that Russia always uses that to choose their team member).

Would that leave the option open for additional Russian's to go to a qualification tournament and qualify? Or can there only be one qualifier per weight for the neutral flag? If not, then there would be no way for a Russian to challenge an already qualified wrestler for the Olympic spot.

See above. I don't think so to your 2nd part. Perhaps if they outplace or score more seeding points. I have no actual clue and am assuming a $HlT tonne here.

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3 hours ago, Crotalus said:

Is that how it works, though? (Serious question) Do Russia's qualifications just move to the neutral flag team rather than being thrown out with team Russia? Can only Russian wrestlers compete for this neutral flag given it's not supposed to represent the nation? Also, how will the selection for this neutral team work? Will Russia hold a qualification tournament?

If the qualifications don't automatically carry over, I would assume the wrestlers would have to qualify themselves, and that would be how they are allowed to compete under a neutral flag.  This is what would make sense to me, anyways.

In soccer, they would be allowed to compete in all the qualifiers as Team Russia then switch to a neutral flag for the World Cup. That’s if FIFA goes the neutral flag route instead of a ban or something else. Maybe UWW would follow the same model.

 

The problem with allowing Russian athletes to compete in the Olympics, etc. under a neutral union flag is that we don’t know if the non-implicated athletes are even clean. RussiaADA tampered with the doping database since at least 2014 and the data they submitted to WADA as recently as last year was falsified. Plus the doping program was state-run and characterized as the largest scale doping infraction in history. It sucks for the clean athletes but what else can they do?

Edited by pamela

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Interesting thing to me is if I remember right, the language in the ruling/recommendation was that athletes would be able to compete if they can prove they have not been affected by the doping program.  We cannot count their drug tests as proof because obviously those results cannot be given any credibility on their own merits.  So how do they prove it?  You always hear the phrase 'cannot prove a negative'.......well it seems like they are going to have to, and I don't know how they do.

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8 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Interesting thing to me is if I remember right, the language in the ruling/recommendation was that athletes would be able to compete if they can prove they have not been affected by the doping program.  We cannot count their drug tests as proof because obviously those results cannot be given any credibility on their own merits.  So how do they prove it?  You always hear the phrase 'cannot prove a negative'.......well it seems like they are going to have to, and I don't know how they do.

This here a sensible mention of 'cannot prove a negative' lol.

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6 hours ago, pamela said:

In soccer, they would be allowed to compete in all the qualifiers as Team Russia then switch to a neutral flag for the World Cup. That’s if FIFA goes the neutral flag route instead of a ban or something else. Maybe UWW would follow the same model.

 

I believe the article reported that WADA said,  the football team is not a part of this ruling. 

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1 minute ago, Plasmodium said:

Thanks Plasmodium.  I hadn't seen this article.  Appreciate it. 

If it's up to FIFA to go along with the WADA ban recommendation...chances are good that Russia will be in the WC.

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4 hours ago, Mphillips said:

Thanks Plasmodium.  I hadn't seen this article.  Appreciate it. 

If it's up to FIFA to go along with the WADA ban recommendation...chances are good that Russia will be in the WC.

I agree, FIFA will allow Russia, because FIFA. Even if they go the neutral union route, all Russian government officials would be barred from attending the World Cup. That would be humiliating for Putin, and I’m sure he’d pull strings to prevent it from happening.

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On 12/9/2019 at 7:16 AM, nhs67 said:

WADA had precisely zero authority, FWIW. They can 'ban' Russia all they want. Let's see if FIFA, UWW, IOC, etc all have the testicular fortitude to follow through on the 'suggested' ban.

This is inaccurate. This used to be the case but not as of 2018. Here’s an excerpt from NYTimes article:

“Under regulations adopted in 2018, WADA has complete authority to punish Russia, which was not the case when the scandal first emerged after the Sochi Olympics. At the time, individual sports federations were allowed to deal with Russia’s cheating on their own. The results were mixed, though, with several federations failing to act decisively and the Olympic Committee welcoming Russia back into the fold almost immediately after the 2018 Winter Games in South Korea, even though it had yet to be cleared by antidoping regulators.“

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4 hours ago, AnklePicker said:

This is inaccurate. This used to be the case but not as of 2018. Here’s an excerpt from NYTimes article:

“Under regulations adopted in 2018, WADA has complete authority to punish Russia, which was not the case when the scandal first emerged after the Sochi Olympics. At the time, individual sports federations were allowed to deal with Russia’s cheating on their own. The results were mixed, though, with several federations failing to act decisively and the Olympic Committee welcoming Russia back into the fold almost immediately after the 2018 Winter Games in South Korea, even though it had yet to be cleared by antidoping regulators.“

We'll see what authority they have soon enough.

If the athletes are allowed to participate unattached... that means they have zero authority.  That is essentially allowing Russia to get away with it if their athletes are essentially able to still compete as Russians(which they are, to be clear).

That being said, I don't believe for one second that the IOC will follow through on the ban.  That is a "I'll believe it when I see it" scenario.  Prior to WADA releasing their findings and suggestions, the IOC President said he didn't want to do it, despite him knowing already what the sanctions would be.

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57 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

If the athletes are allowed to participate unattached... that means they have zero authority.  That is essentially allowing Russia to get away with it if their athletes are essentially able to still compete as Russians(which they are, to be clear).

I disagree to a degree here. It wouldn't mean zero authority unless ALL Russians were allowed to enter.

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1 hour ago, gimpeltf said:

I disagree to a degree here. It wouldn't mean zero authority unless ALL Russians were allowed to enter.

I'm not trying to speak for @nhs67 but allowing Russian athletes to compete unattached would mean that WADA has no authority because

  1. There's no way to know which of the current Russian athletes are clean (Russia ADA tampered with its current doping database)
  2. Russia was busted for doping but allowed to compete in Sochi unattached under the condition that Russia submit its doping data for review (which was discovered to be false/tampered data)

Like why even have a WADA or doping rules if it's this easy to get away with it?

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2 minutes ago, pamela said:

I'm not trying to speak for @nhs67 but allowing Russian athletes to compete unattached would mean that WADA has no authority because

  1. There's no way to know which of the current Russian athletes are clean (Russia ADA tampered with its current doping database)
  2. Russia was busted for doping but allowed to compete in Sochi unattached under the condition that Russia submit its doping data for review (which was discovered to be false/tampered data)

Like why even have a WADA or doping rules if it's this easy to get away with it?

Again no or zero means exactly that. I believe previously they had to "prove" they were clean to be able to do this. It sounds like they didn't have a good means to do it. If some don't compete that would have otherwise then WADA does have at least some authority. Proving might now mean testing in a neutral location. We don't know everything they have in mind this time around. I'm sure we all have suspicions but we don't know what we don't know.

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9 minutes ago, pamela said:

I'm not trying to speak for @nhs67 but allowing Russian athletes to compete unattached would mean that WADA has no authority because

  1. There's no way to know which of the current Russian athletes are clean (Russia ADA tampered with its current doping database)
  2. Russia was busted for doping but allowed to compete in Sochi unattached under the condition that Russia submit its doping data for review (which was discovered to be false/tampered data)

Like why even have a WADA or doping rules if it's this easy to get away with it?

A more refined way of saying what I was attempting to say. Gratitude.

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