Jump to content
Lefty142

Too many teams/wrestlers ranked

Recommended Posts

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the top 25 individual rankings (NWCA rankings anyway) are there to give qualification spots.  If B1G has 9 wrestlers ranked at 133, then there are 9 qualification spots for that weight.  Not necessarily there to give participation award type kudos as it is a judge on how conference tournaments might shake out. 

 

Edited by airmail

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

You're not wrong, but his issue is the number of AA.  4-8 = "participation award."

I saw that, but didn't really have a response as that's just silly...  If 4-8 was taken away at D1, then D2/NAIA/JUCO would have to be reduced to just a National Champion.  Past little kids wrestling, this is a sport where participation awards aren't given.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, airmail said:

I saw that, but didn't really have a response as that's just silly...  If 4-8 was taken away at D1, then D2/NAIA/JUCO would have to be reduced to just a National Champion.  Past little kids wrestling, this is a sport where participation awards aren't given.  

Understood.  I took the onus of the original poster to be upset about the number of AA's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty weak argument.  Top-8 is a pretty standard D1 designation for All-American individual sports, e.g. track and field, gymnastics, etc.  For some its more, e.g. tennis is top 16 for singles.  Wrestling also skips the "second team" or honorable mention" All-American stuff that some other sports have (e.g. swimming, football).  The total count is higher is wrestling only because there's multiple weight classes, but that's also the case with other sports with internal variants (e.g. different swimming and track and field events). 

Pointing out the smaller number of programs doesn't hold much water since the overall high school participation remains comparatively high -- roughly 250K -- which means wrestling is actually more competitive than most other sports to actually be become a starter of a D1 team.  That means only about 1 in 350 high school wrestlers will be a D1 starter.  That's less than nearly all other sports, including football.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Lefty142 said:

10% of D1 starters are all Americans.  That’s a participation award.  Sad.  

Haha.  Far from a participation award.  

 

Its been top 8 for AA awards for quite some time.     If next year, 100 less athletes choose not to come out for wrestling, the ones who are still wrestling shouldn't be penalized.  

Edited by Rich-JerseyStrong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Lefty142 said:

There are 78 teams.  Ranking a top 25 is a bit much. If those ratios were applied to football there would be a top 41 and if it applied to basketball there would be a top 115. 
 

football has 125 teams and 22 starters. That’s 2750 starting D1 football players. .9% of those earn all American (25 players). Basketball has 347 teams of 5 starters, or 1735 starters. 17 of those athletes earn all American. That’s a staggering .9%.  
 

wrestling has 78 teams of 10 starters, or 780 athletes. 80 of those wrestlers will earn all American. That’s more than 10% of all D1 starters becoming all American.  
 

rank the top 12 individuals and teams.  Stop the participation award business of nationals and award the top 3 only. Make all American mean something.  

How many national championships or AA's have you won?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if 1 in 350 High School wrestlers starts on a D1 team, and 8 in 78 Starters become All Americans then that translates to 1 in 3,412 high school wrestlers go on to become a D1 All American.  I would say that's hardly a participation trophy (fun fact this also translates into 1 in 27,300 high school wrestlers becoming a D1 National Champ). 

Final argument - if you can provide me with an example of 1 eighth place finisher in the weakest weight in the past couple of decades that wasn't an absolute monster I think you'd have more of a leg to stand on.  Contrarily, I can point to 100s if not 1000s of amazing wrestlers who never all americaned.  #keep8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Lefty142 said:

There are 78 teams.  Ranking a top 25 is a bit much. If those ratios were applied to football there would be a top 41 and if it applied to basketball there would be a top 115. 
 

football has 125 teams and 22 starters. That’s 2750 starting D1 football players. .9% of those earn all American (25 players). Basketball has 347 teams of 5 starters, or 1735 starters. 17 of those athletes earn all American. That’s a staggering .9%.  
 

wrestling has 78 teams of 10 starters, or 780 athletes. 80 of those wrestlers will earn all American. That’s more than 10% of all D1 starters becoming all American.  
 

rank the top 12 individuals and teams.  Stop the participation award business of nationals and award the top 3 only. Make all American mean something.  

Wrestling programs generating a sense of success and pride for their schools is critical for the sport. There was a survey recently where something like 10% of universities that had wrestling programs considered it to be their best sport. 

That sense of pride has helped stem further program closures. It’s much harder for an athletic department to close a program that generates All Americans wearing the school’s colors. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Lefty142 said:

There are 78 teams.  Ranking a top 25 is a bit much. If those ratios were applied to football there would be a top 41 and if it applied to basketball there would be a top 115. 
 

football has 125 teams and 22 starters. That’s 2750 starting D1 football players. .9% of those earn all American (25 players). Basketball has 347 teams of 5 starters, or 1735 starters. 17 of those athletes earn all American. That’s a staggering .9%.  
 

wrestling has 78 teams of 10 starters, or 780 athletes. 80 of those wrestlers will earn all American. That’s more than 10% of all D1 starters becoming all American.  
 

rank the top 12 individuals and teams.  Stop the participation award business of nationals and award the top 3 only. Make all American mean something.  

ok boomer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, boconnell said:

I love that someone is dumb enough to look at College wrestling and College football, compare the two, and come away thinking that wrestlers get too much recognition compared to football players.

One sport generates revenue.  Of course it gets more recognition.  Top 8 at NCAAs is a joke.  Top 3 is legit. After that, who cares? They lost twice at a national tournament.  But you want to give em a medal and an all American honor? You are diminishing the value of top 3 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, MDogg said:

Wrestling programs generating a sense of success and pride for their schools is critical for the sport. There was a survey recently where something like 10% of universities that had wrestling programs considered it to be their best sport. 

That sense of pride has helped stem further program closures. It’s much harder for an athletic department to close a program that generates All Americans wearing the school’s colors. 

Playing in a bowl game is akin to wrestling at your conference championships.  It’s not a real award. Certainly not on the level of being called all American. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Lefty142 said:

There are 78 teams.  Ranking a top 25 is a bit much. If those ratios were applied to football there would be a top 41 and if it applied to basketball there would be a top 115. 
 

football has 125 teams and 22 starters. That’s 2750 starting D1 football players. .9% of those earn all American (25 players). Basketball has 347 teams of 5 starters, or 1735 starters. 17 of those athletes earn all American. That’s a staggering .9%.  
 

wrestling has 78 teams of 10 starters, or 780 athletes. 80 of those wrestlers will earn all American. That’s more than 10% of all D1 starters becoming all American.  
 

rank the top 12 individuals and teams.  Stop the participation award business of nationals and award the top 3 only. Make all American mean something.  

AA’s in those other sports are voted in. Wrestlers have to win enough matches in one of the most grueling single sporting events in the world, and they have to win enough to qualify to even get there. 

AA in wrestling means as much as any other sport.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lefty142 said:

One sport generates revenue.  Of course it gets more recognition.  Top 8 at NCAAs is a joke.  Top 3 is legit. After that, who cares? They lost twice at a national tournament.  But you want to give em a medal and an all American honor? You are diminishing the value of top 3 

So is it about participation medals or revenue?  If revenue goes up do the participation medals become real medals?  You should have thought this out logically so you'd have decent answers for your sad troll job.  

I am guessing a guy who got 8th at NCAAs stuffed you in a locker and stole your girlfriend.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, boconnell said:

So is it about participation medals or revenue?  If revenue goes up do the participation medals become real medals?  You should have thought this out logically so you'd have decent answers for your sad troll job.  

I am guessing a guy who got 8th at NCAAs stuffed you in a locker and stole your girlfriend.  

well the guy who got 8th lost 3 times and is somehow still an all American. Total joke.  I’d be fine with too 3. Anything more than that is a joke.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bearcat09 said:

Final argument - if you can provide me with an example of 1 eighth place finisher in the weakest weight in the past couple of decades that wasn't an absolute monster I think you'd have more of a leg to stand on.  Contrarily, I can point to 100s if not 1000s of amazing wrestlers who never all americaned.  #keep8

I will confess that, at the end of the day, and all numbers aside, this is the argument that really matters to me.  I'm not a fan of the practice of certain high school wrestling states splitting their state tournament into 4 or 5 tiers (A, AA, AAA, AAAA, etc), even when the overall number of teams is small -- such that everyone and their cousin is a "state medalist."  Many of these guys wouldn't even be starters in other states.  It does devalue the "state medalist" designation IMO.  But in D1, even the 8th place finishers are absolute terrors -- every one of them a guy who eats, drinks and breathes wrestling -- while guys who won multiple high school state titles are still struggling to get a D1 starting spot.  I can't think of a D1 AA that I would consider objectively undeserving. Lefty's argument carries exactly zero water with me.  Eight is just right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BAC said:

I will confess that, at the end of the day, and all numbers aside, this is the argument that really matters to me.  I'm not a fan of the practice of certain high school wrestling states splitting their state tournament into 4 or 5 tiers (A, AA, AAA, AAAA, etc), even when the overall number of teams is small -- such that everyone and their cousin is a "state medalist."  Many of these guys wouldn't even be starters in other states.  It does devalue the "state medalist" designation IMO.  But in D1, even the 8th place finishers are absolute terrors -- every one of them a guy who eats, drinks and breathes wrestling -- while guys who won multiple high school state titles are still struggling to get a D1 starting spot.  I can't think of a D1 AA that I would consider objectively undeserving. Lefty's argument carries exactly zero water with me.  Eight is just right.

80 all Americans per year is nothing but excessive.  Let’s get real. I’d go top 4 with a true 4th. No more than that though. I’ve known plenty of 7/8 guys who are far from legit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...