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Lefty142

Too many teams/wrestlers ranked

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1 hour ago, Lefty142 said:

80 all Americans per year is nothing but excessive.  Let’s get real. I’d go top 4 with a true 4th. No more than that though. I’ve known plenty of 7/8 guys who are far from legit. 

please start naming some of these 7th/8th placers who are not legit in your eyes? 

2019 7th/8th placers:

125- Foley (MSU) and Bresser (Oregon State)

133- Lizak (Minn) and Bravo-Young (PSU)

141- Shoop (Lock Haven) and Red (Neb)

149- Degen (ISU) and Lugo (Iowa)

157- Pagdilao (ASU) and Early (ODU)

165- Marinelli (Iowa) and Steiert (UNI)

174- Kutler (Lehigh) and Skatzka (Minn)

184- Geer (OK State) and Zavatsky (VT)

197- Warner (Iowa) and Honis (Cornell)

285- Stencel (CMU) and Hilger (Wisc)

I see a bunch of monsters, multiple time AA's, Junior World team members, etc. 

Do I think some states have gone overboard in classifications for High School? Yes absolutely. I'd be fine with with it though if they made the classification winners wrestle off for 1 true state champion, but that is a different discussion. To be a D1 wrestler is the hardest collegiate sport in terms of participation percent from high school to college. Too many really good high school wrestlers, too few D1 programs. The guys who are d1 starters-all are extremely good. The guys to finish top 8? Certified MONSTERS. I don't care if you lose 3 times to finish 8th, that still means you had to win 3 matches in the toughest folkstyle tournament of the year, with the best collegiate wrestlers.....but yeah those guys totally "aren't legit" 

Edited by VAtoSC

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3 minutes ago, VAtoSC said:

please start naming some of these 7th/8th placers who are not legit in your eyes? 

2019 7th/8th placers:

125- Foley (MSU) and Bresser (Oregon State)

133- Lizak (Minn) and Bravo-Young (PSU)

141- Shoop (Lock Haven) and Red (Neb)

149- Degen (ISU) and Lugo (Iowa)

157- Pagdilao (ASU) and Early (ODU)

165- Marinelli (Iowa) and Steiert (UNI)

174- Kutler (Lehigh) and Skatzka (Minn)

184- Geer (OK State) and Zavatsky (VT)

197- Warner (Iowa) and Honis (Cornell)

285- Stencel (CMU) and Hilger (Wisc)

I see a bunch of monsters, multiple time AA's, Junior World team members, etc. 

Do I think some states have gone overboard in classifications for High School? Yes absolutely. I'd be fine with with it though if they made the classification winners wrestle off for 1 true state champion, but that is a different discussion. To be a D1 wrestler is the hardest collegiate sport in terms of participation percent from high school to college. Too many really good high school wrestlers, too few D1 programs. The guys who are d1 starters-all are extremely good. The guys to finish top 8? Certified MONSTERS. I don't care if you lose 3 times to finish 8th, that still means you had to win 3 matches in the toughest folkstyle tournament of the year, with the best collegiate wrestlers.....but yeah those guys totally "aren't legit" 

Only 3 or 4 of the guys you listed are all American caliber. Sad but true 

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There are 240 Wrestling medalists each year in the 3 divisions. Mens Swimming(not including diving) produces 554 in 3 divisions. And I believe 9-16 are recognized in each event (maybe not relays). Pretty sure there are more male wrestlers in HS than Swimmers. (even if you include YMCA type competitors)

It seems to me that if a state has say 55 wrestling HS's it is silly to have 3 separate individual tournaments, instead of one tournament with 3 or 4 qualifiers. 2 or 3 classifications for a team tourney is fine.

Edited by RichB

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10 minutes ago, Lefty142 said:

Only 3 or 4 of the guys you listed are all American caliber. Sad but true 

That explains it.  I still disagree,  but that's irrelevant.

I'd be curious to see a list of your wrestlers on past Olympic, National, World Cup teams that aren't up to 'caliber.'

Edited by Mphillips

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3 hours ago, Lefty142 said:

One sport generates revenue.  Of course it gets more recognition.  Top 8 at NCAAs is a joke.  Top 3 is legit. After that, who cares? They lost twice at a national tournament.  But you want to give em a medal and an all American honor? You are diminishing the value of top 3 

Surviving a wrestling season, healthy enough to make it to the final 8 nation wide ain't no easy trick..........if you personally placed top three and are offended by the idea that the other 5 got AA status then you need to go back to USA wrestling where they hand out medals to you even if  you didn't have anybody in your weight class................get over it!!!!

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34 minutes ago, Katie said:

There should be one weight class with one champion. You’re either the best wrestler in the country or you’re not. End of story. 

It would have been Bo Nickal last year.  Who would win this year?   Cassar?  Zahid?  Moore?  Gable maybe if he competed.

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3 hours ago, Lefty142 said:

Playing in a bowl game is akin to wrestling at your conference championships.  It’s not a real award. Certainly not on the level of being called all American. 

Did you mean to reply to someone else’s comment with this? It literally has nothing to do with what I said.

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5 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Flo basically touched on this topic on FRL today. They mentioned ranking 15 wrestlers and then a bunch of honorable mentions after that. 

I can see the reasoning for this; the bottom ten of the top 25 are fairly interchangeable.   I don't mean this as a negative but rather as an indicator of parity amongst that particular sect of wrestlers. 

However,  I by no means do I agree with the OP re: to many AAs. 

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1 hour ago, MDogg said:

Did you mean to reply to someone else’s comment with this? It literally has nothing to do with what I said.

You are correct. Replied to the comment below yours   
 

There’s been a lot of teams dropped with successful programs and recent champs or all Americans 

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1 minute ago, Lefty142 said:

You are correct. Replied to the comment below yours   
 

There’s been a lot of teams dropped with successful programs and recent champs or all Americans 

And there almost certainly would’ve been a lot more dropped if the number of All American honors given out to various schools had been cut by almost 2/3rds over the past 40 years.

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2 minutes ago, MDogg said:

And there almost certainly would’ve been a lot more dropped if the number of All American honors given out to various schools had been cut by almost 2/3rds over the past 40 years.

Not true. Performance is almost never a factor when deciding whether to drop or not. It’s always ALWAYS money.  

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55 minutes ago, Lefty142 said:

Not true. Performance is almost never a factor when deciding whether to drop or not. It’s always ALWAYS money.  

See there you go, and the more all Americans your school has the more buzz they get and the more buzz they get the more money they get from alumni and tickets and merchandise and the more all American spots there are the more opportunity all the schools get at it. 

Nice Lefty, you almost single handidly killed college wrestling. That was a close one. Sheeew

Edited by Lurker

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

See there you go, and the more all Americans your school has the more buzz they get and the more buzz they get the more money they get from alumni and tickets and merchandise and the more all American spots there are the more opportunity all the schools get at it. 

Nice Lefty, you almost single handidly killed college wrestling. That was a close one. Sheeew

Woah calm down brother. Show me any proof that a 7th place winner at NCAAs drives alumni donations, gear sales or tickets?  A champ or two, maybe. But for just an all American? No shot.  

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Woah calm down brother. Show me any proof that a 7th place winner at NCAAs drives alumni donations, gear sales or tickets?  A champ or two, maybe. But for just an all American? No shot.  


This guy clearly has zero pulse on mid-major programs and what those All-Americans mean to those respective programs. He’s also the latest addition to the troll ignore list after bumping up a 7-year-old thread in addition to this intentionally tomfoolery.

Poof!

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52 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

 


This guy clearly has zero pulse on mid-major programs and what those All-Americans mean to those respective programs. He’s also the latest addition to the troll ignore list after bumping up a 7-year-old thread in addition to this intentionally tomfoolery.

Poof!

 

Rather than insult people, tell me what a medal means to one of the mid majors.  Nothing.  It means nothing.  Maybe a top 3 matters 

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11 hours ago, JasonBryant said:

 


This guy clearly has zero pulse on mid-major programs and what those All-Americans mean to those respective programs. He’s also the latest addition to the troll ignore list after bumping up a 7-year-old thread in addition to this intentionally tomfoolery.

Poof!

 

Actually I’m guessing he very much has a pulse on the mid majors, and that is why he’s going against it for his, I don’t know argument I guess? Tradecraft for the ‘tomfoolery’....

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Wrestling matches used to be 9 minutes and All Americans were the top 3 finishers at the tournament. Also used to be that Freshmen were not eligible to wrestle.

Lower division champs were also part of the NCAA tournament. Made for some excitement when a lower division guy beat a top dog.

Should we go back to those days? Is 8 too many? Maybe have top 5 as All Americans?

Or, it this all a plot brought on by Cael - more AA's and reducing the number of matches wrestled  each season to protect his 159-0 record? In reading on these boards I can see Cael is the reason for all things that do not work right...

 

Edited by WillieBoy

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34 minutes ago, WillieBoy said:

Or, it this all a plot brought on by Cael - more AA's and reducing the number of matches wrestled  each season to protect his 159-0 record? In reading on these boards I can see Cael is the reason for all things that do not work right...

 

Cael only does what God tells him to do.  Just ask him.

 

Cannot blame Cael for anything.  Take it up with God if you don't like something he does.

 

But yes, there are too many AAs.  And too many State Champs in most states too...And certainly way too many state place winners.  There are guys finishing all state with records barely over .500.

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13 hours ago, Lefty142 said:

Woah calm down brother. Show me any proof that a 7th place winner at NCAAs drives alumni donations, gear sales or tickets?  A champ or two, maybe. But for just an all American? No shot.  

they dont count places, they count all americans

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