Jump to content
Crash

Flo's Side of Lawsuit Against W. Saylor and Rofkin

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Full Nelson said:

It's quite possible the company paid Willie his severance and abruptly sent him on a paid vacation.  Happened to me once in a Christmas week layoff.  Doesn't change anything.  (IF we learn he got no severance pay then that would be bad.)
 
What we know as likely fact is that in a matter of days Willie was up and running his own shop using content pilfered from Flo. 

2-weeks is short notice not just for "high-level" but any job where a person plays a unique, important role.  Willie was an entertainer who also was responsible for a specialized journalism beat.  That takes a bit of doing to replace.  Quitting the week the main season started was certainly a punk move.

It is not pilfered from Flo if he creates a new content.  How long would it take Willie to come up with brand new rankings and boards?  A few days is too long.  Other than rankings and recruiting boards, what is he alleged to have stolen?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Plasmodium said:

It is not pilfered from Flo if he creates a new content.  How long would it take Willie to come up with brand new rankings and boards?  A few days is too long.  Other than rankings and recruiting boards, what is he alleged to have stolen?

Branding too. 
  
CNN has their “5 things you need to know today” section. If the editor for that daily piece goes to MSNBC, they wouldn’t start a section titled “5 things you need to know today” with the same layout/concept. 
  
it doesn’t matter if that editor was the brains behind that entire concept and implementation.  CNN owns it, not the employee who came up with it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Housebuye said:

Branding too. 
  
CNN has their “5 things you need to know today” section. If the editor for that daily piece goes to MSNBC, they wouldn’t start a section titled “5 things you need to know today” with the same layout/concept. 
  
it doesn’t matter if that editor was the brains behind that entire concept and implementation.  CNN owns it, not the employee who came up with it. 

OK, but what specifically?  He didn't even bother to change the title words of content?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

OK, but what specifically?  He didn't even bother to change the title words of content?

I should clarify that I’m not making a legal argument. Plenty of lawyers in this thread who know way more than me. 
  
He didn’t rename the Crystal Ball rankings. That was something recently developed for Flo by Willie, but was still done and published while he was at Flo

  edit: I believe the content of the crystal ball rankings were also republished on Rofkin. I can’t verify that as I don’t have a Rofkin account 

Edited by Housebuye

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is why it's just not worth burning professional bridges whenever possible. In the end Wilie may "win", but the slowness of the litigation process is effectively enforcement of a modified version of the non-compete, not to speak of the huge waste of time and money. Nobody wins but the lawyers' trust accounts .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Housebuye said:

Branding too. 
  
CNN has their “5 things you need to know today” section. If the editor for that daily piece goes to MSNBC, they wouldn’t start a section titled “5 things you need to know today” with the same layout/concept. 
  
it doesn’t matter if that editor was the brains behind that entire concept and implementation.  CNN owns it, not the employee who came up with it. 

Yeah, but he could probably do the same thing with very minor modification.  It's like when Letterman left NBC and went to CBS.  The "Top Ten List" became "Late Show Top Ten" with essentially the same layout concept.  Same thing with the "Viewer Mail" segment which became the "CBS Mailbag." Nothing changed except the names.

I don't know if the "Crystal Ball Rankings" were a regular feature or a one off thing which might make some difference as to whether or not he would be able to use the same exact name.  If CNN wrote 5 things you need to know today once a year ago would MSNBC be prohibited from writing a 5 things you need to know today feature a year later?  In any event he could publish rankings with the name "Willie's Mat Scout Rankings" with essentially the same layout/concept. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To the lawyers in this thread:  If the court finds that Flo's attempts to silence Willie are not consistent with the non compete clause or that the non compete isn't enforceable, can Willie try to recoup lost income from them? 

 

4 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

This is why it's just not worth burning professional bridges whenever possible. In the end Wilie may "win", but the slowness of the litigation process is effectively enforcement of a modified version of the non-compete, not to speak of the huge waste of time and money. Nobody wins but the lawyers' trust accounts .

How can you say this when we don't know the details surrounding his departure (or are you privy to more knowledge than the rest of us)? Maybe Willie burned bridges and left in a very poor way.  Given his erratic tweets, I would acknowledge this is a possibility.  But maybe it was a dispute over salary/compensation and Flo is trying to send a message to its other employees: that they are essentially powerless (i.e. keep working for us for what we will pay you or we will prevent you from working anywhere using our team of lawyers). 

Edited by Billyhoyle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Fishbane said:

Yeah, but he could probably do the same thing with very minor modification.  It's like when Letterman left NBC and went to CBS.  The "Top Ten List" became "Late Show Top Ten" with essentially the same layout concept.  Same thing with the "Viewer Mail" segment which became the "CBS Mailbag." Nothing changed except the names.

I don't know if the "Crystal Ball Rankings" were a regular feature or a one off thing which might make some difference as to whether or not he would be able to use the same exact name.  If CNN wrote 5 things you need to know today once a year ago would MSNBC be prohibited from writing a 5 things you need to know today feature a year later?  In any event he could publish rankings with the name "Willie's Mat Scout Rankings" with essentially the same layout/concept. 

Yeah I have no idea how this actually works legally

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn’t really seem the “stolen” rankings are really relevant anyway, since their argument was about the non-compete, not IP theft or whatever (even though they included that in the lawsuit).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Billyhoyle said:

How can you say this when we don't know the details surrounding his departure (or are you privy to more knowledge than the rest of us)? Maybe Willie burned bridges and left in a very poor way.  Given his erratic tweets, I would acknowledge this is a possibility.  But maybe it was a dispute over salary/compensation and Flo is trying to send a message to its other employees: that they are essentially powerless (i.e. keep working for us for what we will pay you or we will prevent you from working anywhere using our team of lawyers). 

Willie obviously burned bridges and left in a poor way, not "maybe."  It's not a great crime, but foolish.
I seriously doubt Flo manages with a "the beatings will continue until morale improves" strategy.   Many of the people there are essentially entertainers and public spokespeople.  Their product is enthusiasm for a sport.  Gemuetlichkeit.   Unhappy people aren't gonna bring the fun.  I expect that the ppl there work extremely hard - long hours, travel, constant deadlines.  I have a hunch the pay for their efforts is not terrific.  

I don't care why William wanted to move on.   You just  don't crap on your long-time co-workers and bosses.   Starting up a competing services days after giving notice is hardball at best.   In this case it was somewhat worse than that.

I like Willie (to the extent I know him) and wish him well. This stink bomb will blow over.  I myself have been stupidly arrogant towards bosses.  Hopefully learned from mistakes.

I've seen the bull head and the damage done
A little Willie S in everyone
oh oh, the damage done
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

How can you say this when we don't know the details surrounding his departure (or are you privy to more knowledge than the rest of us)? Maybe Willie burned bridges and left in a very poor way.  Given his erratic tweets, I would acknowledge this is a possibility.  But maybe it was a dispute over salary/compensation and Flo is trying to send a message to its other employees: that they are essentially powerless (i.e. keep working for us for what we will pay you or we will prevent you from working anywhere using our team of lawyers). 

You obviously don't have a Twitter account to be able to say this with a straight face. I don't care what Flo did to him, what he tweeted was uncalled for and really stupid given the circumstances. If Flo wronged him as you suggest (I find that doubtful), sue them. Don't go on Twitter and instigate a company that is suing your ass, possibly even giving them legal ammunition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/3/2020 at 8:56 PM, wrestlingnerd said:

You obviously don't have a Twitter account to be able to say this with a straight face. I don't care what Flo did to him, what he tweeted was uncalled for and really stupid given the circumstances. If Flo wronged him as you suggest (I find that doubtful), sue them. Don't go on Twitter and instigate a company that is suing your ass, possibly even giving them legal ammunition.

My point is that it’s possible they had a dispute over pay or something else reasonable, which led to Willie leaving. Now he is doing his own thing as an independent journalist for Rokfin.  Reporters/journalists leave their companies all the time and they should have the right to keep working at a different media outlet. Flo employees should not be forced to have lifetime contracts with flo or face a year of unemployment.

What do you think is more likely: that flo is suing him because he’s working with rokfin/Martin or because he was mean to flo in his tweets and hurt their feelings? 

I don’t know all the details of the situation, but my point is that neither do you. To just say the lawsuit is Willy’s own fault for “burning bridges” while ignoring the fact that there is serious vitriol between flo and Martin and that the lawsuit may have nothing to do with the twitter comments makes no sense. Flo is a corporation looking out for its interests, which include crushing any potential competitors. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

My point is that it’s possible they had a dispute over pay or something else reasonable, which led to Willie leaving. Now he is doing his own thing as an independent journalist for Rokfin.  Reporters/journalists leave their companies all the time and they should have the right to keep working at a different media outlet. Flo employees should not be forced to have lifetime contracts with flo or face a year of unemployment.

What do you think is more likely: that flo is suing him because he’s working with rokfin/Martin or because he was mean to flo in his tweets and hurt their feelings? 

I don’t know all the details of the situation, but my point is that neither do you. To just say the lawsuit is Willy’s own fault for “burning bridges” while ignoring the fact that there is serious vitriol between flo and Martin and that the lawsuit may have nothing to do with the twitter comments makes no sense. Flo is a corporation looking out for its interests, which include crushing any potential competitors. 

So many words but what’s your point, that Willie left professionally?  I didn’t say it was Willie’s pettiness that got him sued. Violating a non-compete is burning a bridge. Acting like a 6-year old one Twitter is burning a bridge. Calling out former employees by name and insulting them is burning a bridge. Disclosing confidential information about a contract about to be signed by Askren is burning a bridge.

My point: don’t do that if you want a shot at an amicable or at least quick resolution to whatever dispute may be at play. 

Your point: ...... I’m wrong to say that? What a joke. Willie’s was the clumsiest exit ever I’m wrestling journalism. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

So many words but what’s your point, that Willie left professionally?  I didn’t say it was Willie’s pettiness that got him sued. Violating a non-compete is burning a bridge. Acting like a 6-year old one Twitter is burning a bridge. Calling out former employees by name and insulting them is burning a bridge. Disclosing confidential information about a contract about to be signed by Askren is burning a bridge.

My point: don’t do that if you want a shot at an amicable or at least quick resolution to whatever dispute may be at play. 

Your point: ...... I’m wrong to say that? What a joke. Willie’s was the clumsiest exit ever I’m wrestling journalism. 

I will summarize this for you: you said the lesson learned here is to not burn bridges when leaving a job. 

My point is that he possibly left because he saw a better job opportunity working elsewhere-and as a journalist he shouldn’t be forced to work for flo at the salary they dictate indefinitely (or face a year of unemployment). Leaving flo for a better job is not burning a bridge. The lawsuit is much more  likely a result of an already existing feud between Martin and his brother as well as Flo trying to crush a competitor than tweets from Willie that hurt Flo’s feelings. 

Hope that was a simple enough summary and it helps you understand why this situation is potentially more complicated than “err be nice to your former employer when you leave so you don’t get sued.” Neither of us or any of the posters here really know all the details of the situation or Flo’s motivation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

I will summarize this for you: you said the lesson learned here is to not burn bridges when leaving a job. 

My point is that he possibly left because he saw a better job opportunity working elsewhere-and as a journalist he shouldn’t be forced to work for flo at the salary they dictate indefinitely (or face a year of unemployment). Leaving flo for a better job is not burning a bridge. The lawsuit is much more  likely a result of an already existing feud between Martin and his brother as well as Flo trying to crush a competitor than tweets from Willie that hurt Flo’s feelings. 

Hope that was a simple enough summary and it helps you understand why this situation is potentially more complicated than “err be nice to your former employer when you leave so you don’t get sued.” Neither of us or any of the posters here really know all the details of the situation or Flo’s motivation. 

Gotcha. So you can be justified in being immature and unprofessional on an exit because, err, there’s that chance you’re right! We should all take your sage advice going forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Gotcha. So you can be justified in being immature and unprofessional on an exit because, err, there’s that chance you’re right! We should all take your sage advice going forward.

Willie is either delusional or playing up a self-parody for attention (I lean toward the latter-like a Mr. McMahon character). Possibly it’s a bit of both. I’m not saying embarrassing himself in this way is a good thing. But I don’t agree with your conclusion that this is why he’s being sued. Especially since you have zero knowledge of the workings of the flo legal department (and neither do I). 

Edited by Billyhoyle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Willie posted a bunch of tweets yesterday about being back.  Including one "I know a lot of people take my schtick the wrong way. I just try to have fun. They think i'm insanely egotistical. I didn't want to feed into that that but in the name of full disclosure here's the vid of me reacting to the court decision today."  What was he court decision yesterday?  Is he fully back and can make videos too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Fishbane said:

Willie posted a bunch of tweets yesterday about being back.  Including one "I know a lot of people take my schtick the wrong way. I just try to have fun. They think i'm insanely egotistical. I didn't want to feed into that that but in the name of full disclosure here's the vid of me reacting to the court decision today."  What was he court decision yesterday?  Is he fully back and can make videos too?

the takeaway seems to be that he can write and rank but he can't make wrestling-related videos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ugarte said:

the takeaway seems to be that he can write and rank but he can't make wrestling-related videos

He could do that before whatever the most recent decision was.  I’m assuming he can now do whatever the heck he wants in order to earn some more Rokfin points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, 1032004 said:

He could do that before whatever the most recent decision was.  I’m assuming he can now do whatever the heck he wants in order to earn some more Rokfin points.

 

Agreed, so what does this guy do?  Starts Tweeting GIFs instead of videos which gives Flo more ammunition to claim he is violating the TRO.

This guys is a civil defense lawyer's dream.  Continues to give more reasons to build up billable hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Crash said:

 

Agreed, so what does this guy do?  Starts Tweeting GIFs instead of videos which gives Flo more ammunition to claim he is violating the TRO.

This guys is a civil defense lawyer's dream.  Continues to give more reasons to build up billable hours.

Based on the tweets, I'm assuming the TRO has been lifted.   Maybe even the case got dismissed, not sure

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Crash said:

 

Agreed, so what does this guy do?  Starts Tweeting GIFs instead of videos which gives Flo more ammunition to claim he is violating the TRO.

This guys is a civil defense lawyer's dream.  Continues to give more reasons to build up billable hours.

The guy just can't stop tweeting, he should run for President. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Based on the tweets, I'm assuming the TRO has been lifted.   Maybe even the case got dismissed, not sure

If the case was dismissed, he would be posting on Rofkin.  It's possible/probable the order was altered or clarified to allow him to Tweet.

EDIT:  I didn't see he had posted stuff on Rofkin.  However, it seems like he can't generate videos per his Twitter feed, and he indicated a trial date, so there's no way the case was dismissed.

Edited by VakAttack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...