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Spencer Lee competing at Sr. nationals

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Below is the seeding criteria for OTT.  Couldn't find anything specifically to the OTT qualifier, I have to think they are going with the same. It doesn't appear there is any criteria that definitively puts anyone ahead of Lee, so it would come down to a vote at the seeding meeting.  He may not finish the meeting as the 1 seed.

 

 b. Ranked criteria to be used when voting on seeds will be limited to the following: i. Head to head within the last year.  The “last year” is defined as the April 2019 U.S. Open up to the 2020 U.S. Olympic Team Trials ‐  Wrestling.   1. If there is a split in matches, the last win determines the top seed.   ii. Common opponents within the “last year” as defined above. iii. Medalist at a United World Wrestling (UWW) calendar event within the “last year.” iv. Majority vote will decide the higher seed if there are multiple medalists from UWW calendar events within the “last year.” c. If there is one 2019 medalist from a UWW calendar event entering the Olympic weight category, that individual will be placed in the bottom semifinal (Part One). d. If there are two 2019 medalists from UWW calendar event(s) entering the Olympic weight, the seeding committee will determine which individual will be placed in both the top and bottom semifinal (Part One).

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3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Below is the seeding criteria for OTT.  Couldn't find anything specifically to the OTT qualifier, I have to think they are going with the same. It doesn't appear there is any criteria that definitively puts anyone ahead of Lee, so it would come down to a vote at the seeding meeting.  He may not finish the meeting as the 1 seed.

 

 b. Ranked criteria to be used when voting on seeds will be limited to the following: i. Head to head within the last year.  The “last year” is defined as the April 2019 U.S. Open up to the 2020 U.S. Olympic Team Trials ‐  Wrestling.   1. If there is a split in matches, the last win determines the top seed.   ii. Common opponents within the “last year” as defined above. iii. Medalist at a United World Wrestling (UWW) calendar event within the “last year.” iv. Majority vote will decide the higher seed if there are multiple medalists from UWW calendar events within the “last year.” c. If there is one 2019 medalist from a UWW calendar event entering the Olympic weight category, that individual will be placed in the bottom semifinal (Part One). d. If there are two 2019 medalists from UWW calendar event(s) entering the Olympic weight, the seeding committee will determine which individual will be placed in both the top and bottom semifinal (Part One).

The key word is when "voting" on seeds.  So, those that placed at the Open this past year will get priority seeding.  When they get down to a tie / disagreement, the information above will come in play.

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7 minutes ago, neutralpositionref said:

The key word is when "voting" on seeds.  So, those that placed at the Open this past year will get priority seeding.  When they get down to a tie / disagreement, the information above will come in play.

They certainly could, but placement at last year's open is not part of the criteria, so it wouldn't be automatic. Otherwise it would be reflected in the pre-seeds, I would think.

Edited by Lurker

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Well... the fact that they seeded Brooks over Heflin makes me think they did these off of opinion more than results.  In no other USAW tournament for worlds/olympics have they been allowed to go back more than two years.  That makes Spencer Lee 0-0 in Freestyle.  They do have the valid point that 'common sense' should dictate, however I put him right on tier with the NATOs and Surianos... so that should give the NATOs and Surianos the leg up with seeding.

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2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Well... the fact that they seeded Brooks over Heflin makes me think they did these off of opinion more than results.  In no other USAW tournament for worlds/olympics have they been allowed to go back more than two years.  That makes Spencer Lee 0-0 in Freestyle.  They do have the valid point that 'common sense' should dictate, however I put him right on tier with the NATOs and Surianos... so that should give the NATOs and Surianos the leg up with seeding.

But again by the criteria, NATO doesn’t have anything in the criteria. Suriano would if he does register. And I’m not trying to argue Lee for #1, just speaking to the question how could he be. Nobody on the current list has criteria over him so it’s basically strictly opinion based. Also important to remember these are not final seeds. 

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

But again by the criteria, NATO doesn’t have anything in the criteria. Suriano would if he does register. And I’m not trying to argue Lee for #1, just speaking to the question how could he be. Nobody on the current list has criteria over him so it’s basically strictly opinion based. Also important to remember these are not final seeds. 

What?

Spencer Lee has zero wins in the last two years under that criteria. NATO just got 2nd at the BF. How does he not have criteria?

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15 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Well... the fact that they seeded Brooks over Heflin makes me think they did these off of opinion more than results.  In no other USAW tournament for worlds/olympics have they been allowed to go back more than two years.  That makes Spencer Lee 0-0 in Freestyle.  They do have the valid point that 'common sense' should dictate, however I put him right on tier with the NATOs and Surianos... so that should give the NATOs and Surianos the leg up with seeding.

So he's undefeated in freestyle and has beaten Suriano and Nato in the past 2 years, but you think they should be ahead of him?  I'm sorry but I can't jump on board with that.  That being said if he was 3rd behind those two it really wouldn't bother me either.  He's either going to smoke those guys, or he won't.  Seeding won't play any factor in him getting top 5 and qualifying for OTT.

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2 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

So he's undefeated in freestyle and has beaten Suriano and Nato in the past 2 years, but you think they should be ahead of him?  I'm sorry but I can't jump on board with that.  That being said if he was 3rd behind those two it really wouldn't bother me either.  He's either going to smoke those guys, or he won't.  Seeding won't play any factor in him getting top 5 and qualifying for OTT.

I am also undefeated in Freestyle. 

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2 minutes ago, TFBJR said:

I am also undefeated in Freestyle. 

Are you also a 2X defending national champion, 3X world champion with wins over Nato and Suriano in folkstyle in the past 2 years?  If so, maybe you should be number 1 seed.

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10 hours ago, nhs67 said:

What?

Spencer Lee has zero wins in the last two years under that criteria. NATO just got 2nd at the BF. How does he not have criteria?

My bad. I didn’t realize his silver at BF. That being said, I have no idea then. Unless BF isn’t a UWW calendar event? (I thought it was but haven’t looked it up)

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9 minutes ago, Mokoma said:

Are you also a 2X defending national champion, 3X world champion with wins over Nato and Suriano in folkstyle in the past 2 years?  If so, maybe you should be number 1 seed.

Sadly, no.  I do have many other equally 100% inconsequential seeding criteria  - kind to small animals, allergic to codeine, gray hair, cleft chin.  Additionally when I was in High School I had a bunch of academic awards - I didn't realize we were going back that far.  

 

Thanks for clearing that up but I don't think I can make 57 with day of weigh-ins.      

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Just now, TFBJR said:

Sadly, no.  I do have many other equally 100% inconsequential seeding criteria  - kind to small animals, allergic to codeine, gray hair, cleft chin.  Additionally when I was in High School I had a bunch of academic awards - I didn't realize we were going back that far.  

 

Thanks for clearing that up but I don't think I can make 57 with day of weigh-ins.      

How do you fare with vicodin?

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10 hours ago, nhs67 said:

What?

Spencer Lee has zero wins in the last two years under that criteria. NATO just got 2nd at the BF. How does he not have criteria?

 

4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

My bad. I didn’t realize his silver at BF. That being said, I have no idea then. Unless BF isn’t a UWW calendar event? (I thought it was but haven’t looked it up)

I looked it up and it is on the UWW calendar so I don’t know. I’m sure it will get worked out when they do the actual seeding. 

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1 hour ago, TFBJR said:

Sadly, no.  I do have many other equally 100% inconsequential seeding criteria  - kind to small animals, allergic to codeine, gray hair, cleft chin.  Additionally when I was in High School I had a bunch of academic awards - I didn't realize we were going back that far.  

 

Thanks for clearing that up but I don't think I can make 57 with day of weigh-ins.      

If you think those things are inconsequential then I can't help you.  Why is everyone so butt hurt that Spencer is the number 1 pre seed?  I promise it will work itself out, and he could be any seed in the tourney and will finish top 5 easily barring injury.  I'd rather see him number 1, then like number 16, potentially keeping a high seed from qualifying.

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If you think those things are inconsequential then I can't help you.  Why is everyone so butt hurt that Spencer is the number 1 pre seed?  I promise it will work itself out, and he could be any seed in the tourney and will finish top 5 easily barring injury.  I'd rather see him number 1, then like number 16, potentially keeping a high seed from qualifying.
I think everyone knows hes more than likely going to place.
People just want to know what criteria was used or if it was just opinion.

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17 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

I think everyone knows hes more than likely going to place.
People just want to know what criteria was used or if it was just opinion.

Personally, if it's just an opinion, I'm fine with that.  He's clearly decent at wrestling, freestyle or folkstyle.  Are you upset he might be seeded first?  

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Personally, if it's just an opinion, I'm fine with that.  He's clearly decent at wrestling, freestyle or folkstyle.  Are you upset he might be seeded first?  
Yeah again not "upset" about it.
Think of last years World 65kg bracket. The quarter with Aliyev, Otoguro, Rashidov, Tobier...... yeah it was a sucky quarter but the seeding wasnt based on who "we knew" was great, but rather who had accrued the most points throughout the season....
if you wanted to be seeded you competed. Unfortunately a handful of hammers didnt have results so they got thrown into the mix with everyone else. Most people understood how the points work and understood the system, so it was acceptable.

I think people just want to understand what criteria Lee has to give him "beneficial" placement.

Of course he has the talent. Just hasnt competed

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24 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

Yeah again not "upset" about it.
Think of last years World 65kg bracket. The quarter with Aliyev, Otoguro, Rashidov, Tobier...... yeah it was a sucky quarter but the seeding wasnt based on who "we knew" was great, but rather who had accrued the most points throughout the season....
if you wanted to be seeded you competed. Unfortunately a handful of hammers didnt have results so they got thrown into the mix with everyone else. Most people understood how the points work and understood the system, so it was acceptable.

I think people just want to understand what criteria Lee has to give him "beneficial" placement.

Of course he has the talent. Just hasnt competed

So let me get this straight....you'd rather have a criteria that puts all the talent together if they don't compete?

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Just now, Mokoma said:

So let me get this straight....you'd rather have a criteria that puts all the talent together if they don't compete?

Sigh, I simply would like to know why people are placed where they are. 
Put the top 6 guys in the first 6 slots for all I care, just tell me WHY.... if its purely opinion based, just say that 

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