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Jeffm

You won the Lottery

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I would buy a very large property in an urban area.  Fill the property with horses.  Put up a mansion, a state of the art workout facility and a few family sized houses.   I'd then sell it, pocket the difference and retire in peace and prosperity in an exclusive enclave in Guymon, Oklahoma..

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Is one were to win a large lottery such as Powerball or Mega Millions and the winning amount is let's say 300 million (to keep the math simple) AND one opts for the annuity payout option that would mean the winner would receive 30 payments of roughly six million dollars per year AFTER taxes (basically) in 30 payments over 29 years.   With that as the base premise then one could divert as little as $500,000 to up to $ 1 million PER YEAR to fund a Div. I NCAA college wrestling program.   The funds would have to be diverted into a trust fund of course but even after diverting as much as $ 1 million per year the lottery winner would still be receiving $5 million per year for 29 years (and 30 payments total).

With that having been said the choice for me would be very simple.  I'd fund the return of the Boise State wrestling program.  Of course that would not be a simple proposition after the CRAP that former Boise State school President Bob (let's just LIE to them) Kustra pulled here a few years ago.

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Slippery Rock, West Chester, IUP, and California were all d1 when dropped, Calif for only 1 year. Be nice if all came back as D2. Mansfield is Iffy, I think they and Cheyney may totally disappear.

Temple seems reasonable to bring back, as Philly city now has "real" HS wrestling, 5 D1 programs are Catholic, so whatever(Nova, St Joe, LaSalle, St Francis, Duquesne. The other two D1 schools in Pa are Lafayette and Robert Morris. Lafayette would rather insult the city of Easton, than allow a wrestling team compete against Lehigh's 4th string. 

Lots of D3 candidates, I agree with someone who mentioned Moravian, Dickinson, Juniata, lebanon Valley are all reasonable candidates. DeSalles is another Lehigh Valley area college.

-------------------------------------------------------

Looking further at Temple, Even though they are a state affiliated institution, like Pitt and Penn State, There athletics is a total mess, I thought things must be better now that Football is having some success, I thought things were better. Heck no, Besides Football + Basketball, they only have 4 other male NCAA teams. golf, tennis, xcountry(No Mal0 T+F), and soccer. They also have a varsity, non-ncaa mens crew program, Mostly paid for by the city of Philadelphia. 6 male NCAA sports is I think min for FBS football  

So I am giving $2.5M each to the 4 PSAC D2 programs

Edited by RichB

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I wouldn't follow the rules.  I wouldn't spend it in the states I live.

I would put it into geographic areas that are lacking and I would put it into schools where they wouldn't be expected to compete for national titles.  This would allow the programs to be sustainable within the athletic department, making them one of the better sports at the school, while helping to develop the wrestling ecosystem for the region.

I would make the WAC a wrestling conference (current members: Utah Valley, Cal Baptist, CSU-Bakersfield).  Would seek to get Seattle, Chicago State, UM-Kansas City, and UT-Rio Grand Valley to launch programs.  

I would make a SWAC/MEAC hybrid conference (probably under the SWAC banner).  Would have the goal of eight programs for the conference.  Having them be in one conference and not any other conference would allow them to be competitive with each other and would guarantee access to the NCAA tournament with at least one bid per weight among the peer group. 

  • Prairie View A&M and Texas Southern would anchor Texas and provide for a local Texas based Rivalry (and if UT-Rio Grand Valley launched as a part of the WAC, they would have another in-state team). 
  • Grambling and Southern would add a new sport for their rivalry and anchor wrestling in Louisiana.
  • Arkansas-Pine Bluff would provide Little Rock with in-state competition. 
  • Mississippi Schools (Mississippi Valley State, Jackson State, and Alcorn State) would be interesting as there is no high school wrestling in the state so if they were added, they would recruit out-of-state and would have to be ambassadors on campus to introduce people to the sport.  As schools that produce teachers, they might end up giving the state the human capital to introduce more wrestling.  
  • Alabama State and Alabama A&M would have a new sport for their rivalry.
  • Florida A&M and Bethune-Cookman would anchor Florida and continue their rivalry as the MEAC schools in the group.

Under both scenarios teams would travel for their conference duals but otherwise would compete mainly in their region.  When they would travel for duals they could pick up another event allowing them to get competition outside the region.   For instance, if Bethune-Cookman was going to Alabama A&M they could also have a dual in the same trip with Presbyterian or Chattanooga 

This would fill in some gaps in different parts of the country where there aren't D1 programs in different conferences.  This would help programs like Cal Poly, Northern Illinois, Little Rock, Presbyterian and many others by bringing competition into their region helping them to get more D1 competition locally.  It would bring programs in from other conferences and would be programs that didn't launch with the expectation of competing with the Big Ten.  It would also help the non-D1 programs that are more isolated by having other programs to compete with.  Wayland Baptist (Tx), Oklahoma City (Ok), Brewerton-Parker (Ga), Southeastern (Fl), Simpson (Ca) and many other schools would have more teams to compete against in their region and help make them more viable.  These non-D1 teams would also provide competition for the D1 teams so that they would have success.

If I were making a plan for spending money in wrestling, it wouldn't be about me.  I have it pretty good. I would fill the voids that make it so that other places, some of which I have never been, are able to benefit from the sport and strengthen it for everyone.  Of course, with a little due diligence I might change things up so it might be different schools or conferences but the premise would remain the same.  

 

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6 hours ago, Pinnum said:

I wouldn't follow the rules.  I wouldn't spend it in the states I live.

I would put it into geographic areas that are lacking and I would put it into schools where they wouldn't be expected to compete for national titles.  This would allow the programs to be sustainable within the athletic department, making them one of the better sports at the school, while helping to develop the wrestling ecosystem for the region.

I would make the WAC a wrestling conference (current members: Utah Valley, Cal Baptist, CSU-Bakersfield).  Would seek to get Seattle, Chicago State, UM-Kansas City, and UT-Rio Grand Valley to launch programs.  

I would make a SWAC/MEAC hybrid conference (probably under the SWAC banner).  Would have the goal of eight programs for the conference.  Having them be in one conference and not any other conference would allow them to be competitive with each other and would guarantee access to the NCAA tournament with at least one bid per weight among the peer group. 

  • Prairie View A&M and Texas Southern would anchor Texas and provide for a local Texas based Rivalry (and if UT-Rio Grand Valley launched as a part of the WAC, they would have another in-state team). 
  • Grambling and Southern would add a new sport for their rivalry and anchor wrestling in Louisiana.
  • Arkansas-Pine Bluff would provide Little Rock with in-state competition. 
  • Mississippi Schools (Mississippi Valley State, Jackson State, and Alcorn State) would be interesting as there is no high school wrestling in the state so if they were added, they would recruit out-of-state and would have to be ambassadors on campus to introduce people to the sport.  As schools that produce teachers, they might end up giving the state the human capital to introduce more wrestling.  
  • Alabama State and Alabama A&M would have a new sport for their rivalry.
  • Florida A&M and Bethune-Cookman would anchor Florida and continue their rivalry as the MEAC schools in the group.

Under both scenarios teams would travel for their conference duals but otherwise would compete mainly in their region.  When they would travel for duals they could pick up another event allowing them to get competition outside the region.   For instance, if Bethune-Cookman was going to Alabama A&M they could also have a dual in the same trip with Presbyterian or Chattanooga 

This would fill in some gaps in different parts of the country where there aren't D1 programs in different conferences.  This would help programs like Cal Poly, Northern Illinois, Little Rock, Presbyterian and many others by bringing competition into their region helping them to get more D1 competition locally.  It would bring programs in from other conferences and would be programs that didn't launch with the expectation of competing with the Big Ten.  It would also help the non-D1 programs that are more isolated by having other programs to compete with.  Wayland Baptist (Tx), Oklahoma City (Ok), Brewerton-Parker (Ga), Southeastern (Fl), Simpson (Ca) and many other schools would have more teams to compete against in their region and help make them more viable.  These non-D1 teams would also provide competition for the D1 teams so that they would have success.

If I were making a plan for spending money in wrestling, it wouldn't be about me.  I have it pretty good. I would fill the voids that make it so that other places, some of which I have never been, are able to benefit from the sport and strengthen it for everyone.  Of course, with a little due diligence I might change things up so it might be different schools or conferences but the premise would remain the same.  

 

The current AD at Texas-Rio Grande Valley is Chasse Conque, who previously started the wrestling program at Little Rock. Certainly, he'd be open to starting another D-1 program.

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On 12/18/2019 at 12:25 PM, Jeffm said:

You’ve won the lottery you’ve decided to donate $10 million to start new NCAA wrestling program(s) in your state.  A major University like Texas would cost $10M, a smaller D1 (not in one of 5 major conferences) would cost $3M, a D2 $500K, D3 $100K.

 

Which programs would you fund? 

Small D1 (9 million)

1. Missouri State University ;  fills a fairly large geographic gap currently without D1 Wrestling (Mizzou - 150 miles to the North, Little Rock - 235 miles to the South, Oklahoma State - 265 miles to the West, Illinois - 390 miles to the East).  They had a Program (SW Missouri State) until the 1980's.

2. University of Missouri - Kansas City ;  The highest quality/quantity of High School Wrestling in the State would allow this starter Program to be somewhat competitive rather quickly.  

3. Southeast Missouri State ;  They had a Program until the 1980's.

 

D2 (1 million)

1. Missouri Science & Technology ; Also had a Program (University of Missouri - Rolla) until the mid 1980's. 

2. Truman State University (or) Northwest Missouri State ;  Had Programs previously, Truman State very recently.

These D2 Program additions would have multiple "In-State" D2 Programs to compete against (Lindenwood,  Maryville, Drury, & Central Missouri). 

 

That is how I would spend MY 10 million.

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On 12/18/2019 at 12:36 PM, ionel said:

No D1 school is going to start a new men's wrestling (non-rev) program unless endowed.  $50M endowment will get you ~ $1.75M annual.  You won't get a new men's program without adding a new women's program so ÷2 gets you $875k annual.  With new facilities coaching & staff salaries, scholarships, travel etc you eat thru all of that.  Half your lotto winning will go to taxes (unless CA, NY or after Warren elected, if such nevermind) thus need $100M lotto, sorry man that's just the math.  

Are you actually trying to say its impossible to start a team in Cali with less than 100Million dollars?  Curious as I lived and coached in Cali, with multiple wrestlers competing in college.

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I still think it's better to invest in current programs that could become much more competitive say....Lock Haven.  Right now, D1 doesn't need more struggling programs, it needs more programs that can compete against the big dogs or in 20 years, we are down to less than 20 teams that actually matter.

The more D1 programs that are competitive, could mean more programs down the road.

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1 hour ago, olddirty said:

Are you actually trying to say its impossible to start a team in Cali with less than 100Million dollars?  Curious as I lived and coached in Cali, with multiple wrestlers competing in college.

Perhaps reading and math an issue?  I specifically said $100M winnings so you'd have $50M ($25M each) after tax to endow the men & women's program.  I also said probably won't work in high tax CA, so sorry.  This is the level that should be sufficient in some areas.  Sure if we could count on 20% returns like this past year could endow for less, but that doesn't work long term.  Universities are going to be very conservative (I know liberal Us being conservative doesn't make sense, but not much does, they don't even practice internally what they teach in classes, but I digress) on their expected/required return from endowment funds.  Many got burned back when counting on 7.5%.  

Also as indicated said "should be sufficient."  When budgeting everything is going to be double what you think it would be.  For coaches, staff, etc it not just direct pay but all the benefits and then overhead rate.  If writing a research proposal at a university the cost of students their tuition plus benefits, faculty, equipment, facilities, always seems to be double what you think and then their's the 55% university overhead rate.  The same will be true with a new program like wrestling.  These are not making money for any at the university so they will want the full cost plus overhead funded and guaranteed that the endowment will fund it for duration.  Believe all athletes now also get "free" meals so you gotta cover the cost of those "free" meals plus overhead.  

Now if its so easy, name the last major D1 university in say the SEC, B12, Pac12 (Fresno doesn't count they dropped then added back) ACC, Big East etc. that added a new wrestling program.  Or go shop your $10M around with say USC, UCLA, Texas, Kansas, Alabama, Florida State, etc. and let's find out how it goes.  

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40 minutes ago, ionel said:

Perhaps reading and math an issue?  I specifically said $100M winnings so you'd have $50M ($25M each) after tax to endow the men & women's program.  I also said probably won't work in high tax CA, so sorry.  This is the level that should be sufficient in some areas.  Sure if we could count on 20% returns like this past year could endow for less, but that doesn't work long term.  Universities are going to be very conservative (I know liberal Us being conservative doesn't make sense, but not much does, they don't even practice internally what they teach in classes, but I digress) on their expected/required return from endowment funds.  Many got burned back when counting on 7.5%.  

Also as indicated said "should be sufficient."  When budgeting everything is going to be double what you think it would be.  For coaches, staff, etc it not just direct pay but all the benefits and then overhead rate.  If writing a research proposal at a university the cost of students their tuition plus benefits, faculty, equipment, facilities, always seems to be double what you think and then their's the 55% university overhead rate.  The same will be true with a new program like wrestling.  These are not making money for any at the university so they will want the full cost plus overhead funded and guaranteed that the endowment will fund it for duration.  Believe all athletes now also get "free" meals so you gotta cover the cost of those "free" meals plus overhead.  

Now if its so easy, name the last major D1 university in say the SEC, B12, Pac12 (Fresno doesn't count they dropped then added back) ACC, Big East etc. that added a new wrestling program.  Or go shop your $10M around with say USC, UCLA, Texas, Kansas, Alabama, Florida State, etc. and let's find out how it goes.  

 Fresno State just started their team.  I highly doubt it took them 50 million to start.  Their entire athletics budget for all 16 teams at the time of start was 38 million.

 

Why does it have to be fully endowed as opposed to almost every other team that raises money?

I have athletes wrestling in college currently.  I have 3 roommates coaching college teams, 1 being the juco national champs, as well as coaching college myself.  Overhead for food isnt an issue, nor are free meals for all.

 

It just fascinates me when people try to tell me what something is going to cost, and its just wildly exaggerated.  It does a disservice to everyone because it makes things seem unattainable.  My economics teacher told me I would have to budget 5k a month to survive.  That was 20 years ago.  Now Im reading its gonna take 50 million dollars to start a wrestling team.  Why are people compelled to give the most expensive and difficult scenario when there are real life examples that can be used?  Cal Baptist and Fresno State being the easiest to compare to.

Edited by olddirty

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