Yianni / McKenna - Seriously?

[HurricaneWrestling2 582]

 

29 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Why didn't Yianni want to wrestle Nick Lee? Yianni wasn't injured, so why not step on the mat?

Edited December 23, 2019 by HurricaneWrestling2

[DocBZ 89]

11 hours ago, 77again said:

Well, I see four guys signalling 2 (the ref on the mat, the guy in the grey sweatshirt to the right of the table, the guy standing behind the table with the hat on, and the kid in the stands behind the hat guy). I don't see anybody signalling no takedown. So the consensus is 4-0 for TD. 

There's actually 6 guys. Ref, grey sweatshirt guy, black short sleeve guy above him, blue jacket guy, kid hiding above him and green shirt guy in top left corner! I'm still looking for Waldo though...

Edited December 23, 2019 by DocBZ

[TBar1977 3,827]

58 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I know you'r not seriously asking, but see thread on OTT Seeding Criteria.

So you are saying Yianni didn't want to jeopardize his seeding at OTT by possibly losing to Nick Lee?

[wrestlingnerd 2,593]

9 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

So you are saying Yianni didn't want to jeopardize his seeding at OTT by possibly losing to Nick Lee?

His coaches. 

[TBar1977 3,827]

1 minute ago, wrestlingnerd said:

His coaches. 

That is always implied, if not stated in my post. Yianni and/or his coaches didn't want to jeopardize his OTT seed by perhaps losing to Nick Lee. 

That Nick Lee made quite the jump this past weekend. 

[wrestlingnerd 2,593]

5 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

That is always implied, if not stated in my post. Yianni and/or his coaches didn't want to jeopardize his OTT seed by perhaps losing to Nick Lee. 

That Nick Lee made quite the jump this past weekend. 

He made a jump, no question. But I think they would’ve made the same decision against literally anyone. There was absolutely nothing to gain because to Yianni 3 or 4 or any placement after his loss is no different per the criteria. 

[TBar1977 3,827]

9 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

He made a jump, no question. But I think they would’ve made the same decision against literally anyone. There was absolutely nothing to gain because to Yianni 3 or 4 or any placement after his loss is no different per the criteria. 

This is true, and after watching Nick Lee maul Frank the Tank I don't blame them. Yianni had some real risk in that match up. Can't blame him at all for not wanting to put his seed at such risk. 

[NJDan 589]

Yianni needed more offense against McKenna. His defense was not a problem, but he didn't shoot but once.

[treep2000 904]

At this point... there are a couple "truths":

* Yianni does this to himself.  He doesn't separate from the competition by getting to his offense, and puts himself into dangerous scrambles and counter-wrestling situations.  By doing so, the 2nd truth happens...

* NEVER put it in the hands of the refs.  EVER.  

Two or not to Two?  That's really NOT the question.  The question is why Yianni continues to wrestle this way.  Sure, it's his "style", but neither he nor his fans should be butthurt when he loses matches like this, given the reasons above.  

I don't feel sorry for him.  Improve.  Widen the gap.  Or don't.

[treep2000 904]

1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

That is always implied, if not stated in my post. Yianni and/or his coaches didn't want to jeopardize his OTT seed by perhaps losing to Nick Lee. 

That Nick Lee made quite the jump this past weekend. 

Nick Lee looks like NCAA champ material this year.  Pletch is currently number 1, but I'm thinking that Lee is going to be the victor when they match up.

[wrestlingnerd 2,593]

5 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

At this point... there are a couple "truths":

* Yianni does this to himself.  He doesn't separate from the competition by getting to his offense, and puts himself into dangerous scrambles and counter-wrestling situations.  By doing so, the 2nd truth happens...

* NEVER put it in the hands of the refs.  EVER.  

Two or not to Two?  That's really NOT the question.  The question is why Yianni continues to wrestle this way.  Sure, it's his "style", but neither he nor his fans should be butthurt when he loses matches like this, given the reasons above.  

I don't feel sorry for him.  Improve.  Widen the gap.  Or don't.

I hate you but cannot disagree. Santa, get Yianni a sprawl. 

[treep2000 904]

3 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I hate you but cannot disagree. Santa, get Yianni a sprawl. 

Hate?  wow... what did I ever do to you? Such strong language for the season of giving and caring.

[wrestlingnerd 2,593]

Just now, treep2000 said:

Hate?  wow... what did I ever do to you? Such strong language for the season of giving and caring.

Just my way of saying good point, you bastard.

[treep2000 904]

Just now, wrestlingnerd said:

Just my way of saying good point, you bastard.

What is love?  Baby don't hurt me... don't hurt me... no more... 

[TBar1977 3,827]

Yianni is finding out what Dean Heil found out. The wrestling Gods are not going to let you squirm around underneath your opponent just trying to grab something and get away with it forever. Eventually they are going to start awarding take downs and you are going to lose here and there until, as others have noted, you improve. 

[wrestlingnerd 2,593]

1 minute ago, TBar1977 said:

Yianni is finding out what Dean Heil found out. The wrestling Gods are not going to let you squirm around underneath your opponent just trying to grab something and get away with it forever. Eventually they are going to start awarding take downs and you are going to lose here and there until, as others have noted, you improve. 

That is an absolutely atrocious analogy. Yianni does not squirm around and actually scores more TDs off of his many offensive TD techniques than off of “funk” or contortionist parlor tricks. Notably, he never goes to his back when defending in freestyle and scores the majority of the time he does counter, i.e. it’s true counteroffense and not funk to a stall. 
 

You gloat on this thread as if Lee has actually beaten Yianni but let’s be real. He beat an old man he was familiar with by the same margin as Joey Lazor and then got a whole semester’s worth of lunch money stolen by that dude JO, the same tech fall margin by which Yianni beat JO.

Let Lee so more before you drone on about how scared Yianni was. I hated to see the duck as a fan and even called it wussing our, but let’s not pretend Yianni is balled up in a fetal position afraid to peek out and see Lee lurking just yet. 

[TBar1977 3,827]

45 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

That is an absolutely atrocious analogy. Yianni does not squirm around and actually scores more TDs off of his many offensive TD techniques than off of “funk” or contortionist parlor tricks. Notably, he never goes to his back when defending in freestyle and scores the majority of the time he does counter, i.e. it’s true counteroffense and not funk to a stall. 
 

You gloat on this thread as if Lee has actually beaten Yianni but let’s be real. He beat an old man he was familiar with by the same margin as Joey Lazor and then got a whole semester’s worth of lunch money stolen by that dude JO, the same tech fall margin by which Yianni beat JO.

Let Lee so more before you drone on about how scared Yianni was. I hated to see the duck as a fan and even called it wussing our, but let’s not pretend Yianni is balled up in a fetal position afraid to peek out and see Lee lurking just yet. 

Just pointing out what others have also said. Improve or take some L's like all of a sudden he is taking. And not gloating either. Nick Lee jumped levels this year, and by what I saw this past weekend it isn't out of the question he could actually beat Yianni D. Would I predict that or bet my life on it? No. But it no longer seems out of the question either. 

I never once suggested he was in any fetal poisition. Heck, I didn't say he was "wussing". Your words, not mine. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by TBar1977

[PSUSMC 175]

Back on to the "seriously" topic and the scoring; Nick K is one of the best free/Greco refs in the United States.  

I always knew/know that if he's involved with the mechanics, legit scoring and rules interpretation is happening on that mat.

That was 2 for McKenna, regardless of the perceived ticks on the timepiece.

[wrestlingnerd 2,593]

It was definitely 2. Even the OP conceded after further consideration. And all the pot shots at Yianni are fully warranted. He’s still very very good. He still needs a sprawl. Let’s not take the hype too far the other way. He can beat anyone, even Bajrang again but is no sure thing to even beat Nick Lee. For the record, he did wuss out (yes, my words), but for good strategic reasons.

Nick Lee was one of the surprises of the weekend. Not taking anything away from him. I have to believe Molinaro used to beat him to a pulp in the room not long ago, so big brothering big brother is quite a statement on improvement. 

[NonspecificJargon 9]

2 hours ago, treep2000 said:

At this point... there are a couple "truths":

* Yianni does this to himself.  He doesn't separate from the competition by getting to his offense, and puts himself into dangerous scrambles and counter-wrestling situations.  By doing so, the 2nd truth happens...

* NEVER put it in the hands of the refs.  EVER.  

Two or not to Two?  That's really NOT the question.  The question is why Yianni continues to wrestle this way.  Sure, it's his "style", but neither he nor his fans should be butthurt when he loses matches like this, given the reasons above.  

I don't feel sorry for him.  Improve.  Widen the gap.  Or don't.

Well said. 

[uncle bernard 397]

6 hours ago, treep2000 said:

At this point... there are a couple "truths":

* Yianni does this to himself.  He doesn't separate from the competition by getting to his offense, and puts himself into dangerous scrambles and counter-wrestling situations.  By doing so, the 2nd truth happens...

* NEVER put it in the hands of the refs.  EVER.  

Two or not to Two?  That's really NOT the question.  The question is why Yianni continues to wrestle this way.  Sure, it's his "style", but neither he nor his fans should be butthurt when he loses matches like this, given the reasons above.  

I don't feel sorry for him.  Improve.  Widen the gap.  Or don't.

It's funny that Yianni is getting a lot of grief for "not sprawling" yet he lost off his own high crotch. McKenna may have finished in a single leg position, but he didn't get there by attacking. He got there because he forced a scramble off Yianni's high crotch.

Yianni was doing exactly what you advocated for, widening the gap. He's up 5-3, senses blood in the water, and hits a beautiful level change high crotch to go up 7-3 and ice the match, but McKenna countered. He had just finished on McKenna in that same position too, so it's not like he was being reckless by going to an unfamiliar attack. I understand the critique that he wrestles close matches, but you're using it for a match where he lost by specifically trying NOT to keep it close.

Sometimes you just get beat and it's not symbolic of a broader issue with your wrestling. McKenna has felt him 3 times now. He's a junior world medalist himself. It's hard to beat people like that 3 times.

I'd also add that it's a possibility that he's not quite as good as everyone thought. His dominance at the Open last year is somewhat of an outlier. He had 2 razor tight matches at NCAAs, both ending with very controversial takedown calls in his favor. He then came back down to earth a bit after the open, getting outwrestled at Final X and the wrestle off by Zain. In fact, you could argue that even his Open performance wasn't as great as first seemed. Molinaro has not been the same guy down at 65. Oliver had the match under control and then fell apart. Exact same thing for Zain. Some of you might bring up Bajrang, but Yianni simply joined a long tradition of American's beating much higher ranked international opponents at BTS, and those results weren't usually actually indicative of how good they were.

Edited December 23, 2019 by uncle bernard

[Mphillips 749]

27 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

 

Sometimes you just get beat and it's not symbolic of a broader issue with your wrestling. McKenna has felt him 3 times now. He's a junior world medalist himself. It's hard to beat people like that 3 times.

 

+1  

[neutralpositionref 15]

4 hours ago, PSUSMC said:

Back on to the "seriously" topic and the scoring; Nick K is one of the best free/Greco refs in the United States.  

I always knew/know that if he's involved with the mechanics, legit scoring and rules interpretation is happening on that mat.

That was 2 for McKenna, regardless of the perceived ticks on the timepiece.

You are correct that Nick K is one of the best FS/GR refs in our country.   But it wasn't Nick K of California reffing this match,  it was Peter K of Minnesota.   He still nailed the call. 

 

[klehner 397]

29 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

I'd also add that it's a possibility that he's not quite as good as everyone thought. His dominance at the Open last year is somewhat of an outlier. He had 2 razor tight matches at NCAAs, both ending with very controversial takedown calls in his favor. He then came back down to earth a bit after the open, getting outwrestled at Final X and the wrestle off by Zain. In fact, you could argue that even his Open performance wasn't as great as first seemed. Molinaro has not been the same guy down at 65. Oliver had the match under control and then fell apart. Exact same thing for Zain. Some of you might bring up Bajrang, but Yianni simply joined a long tradition of American's beating much higher ranked international opponents at BTS, and those results weren't usually actually indicative of how good they were.

Yianni did win two international tournaments in 2019, right?  Were those "outliers," also?  I believe that the loss to McKenna is his first ever senior level loss in a tournament (two Euro tournaments, plus the Open and this Senior Nationals).  Not too shabby for not being quite as good as everyone thought.

It's amazing that there's an excuse for everyone he's beaten:  "razor tight," "calls in his favor," "not the same guy," "fell apart," "BTS is stacked against international opponents."  Yianni sure is lucky.

Just curious:  what are the reasons he beat Eierman the last three outings?  How about Bryce Meredith the two times they met?  

[PSUSMC 175]

53 minutes ago, neutralpositionref said:

You are correct that Nick K is one of the best FS/GR refs in our country.   But it wasn't Nick K of California reffing this match,  it was Peter K of Minnesota.   He still nailed the call. 

 

With the resemblance in the picture, they must be "kindred" spirits!