Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
RED

Yianni / McKenna - Seriously?

Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, treep2000 said:

At this point... there are a couple "truths":

* Yianni does this to himself.  He doesn't separate from the competition by getting to his offense, and puts himself into dangerous scrambles and counter-wrestling situations.  By doing so, the 2nd truth happens...

* NEVER put it in the hands of the refs.  EVER.  

Two or not to Two?  That's really NOT the question.  The question is why Yianni continues to wrestle this way.  Sure, it's his "style", but neither he nor his fans should be butthurt when he loses matches like this, given the reasons above.  

I don't feel sorry for him.  Improve.  Widen the gap.  Or don't.

Best Yianni assessment to date.  I am a huge Yianni fan, but have often noted that the results of so many of his critical matches have been left in the hands of the referees.  Can't do that.  Eventually you are going to lose a few of those calls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, klehner said:

Yianni did win two international tournaments in 2019, right?  Were those "outliers," also?  I believe that the loss to McKenna is his first ever senior level loss in a tournament (two Euro tournaments, plus the Open and this Senior Nationals).  Not too shabby for not being quite as good as everyone thought.

It's amazing that there's an excuse for everyone he's beaten:  "razor tight," "calls in his favor," "not the same guy," "fell apart," "BTS is stacked against international opponents."  Yianni sure is lucky.

Just curious:  what are the reasons he beat Eierman the last three outings?  How about Bryce Meredith the two times they met?  

To answer your last question, because he's better than those guys.

Yes, he won a couple international tournaments, but who did he beat? He was getting waxed by Musukaev before one of the greatest meltdowns of all time. Maybe I should be more clear. Yianni is elite and a contender to make the team and maybe even medal. However, there are many who expected him to dominate this weight class going forward like he dominated the 2019 Open. My point is that that was not a reasonable expectation. By his own admission, Oliver consistently beat him in the room. He's a 50/50 match up with Zain. Now he's been beaten by McKenna as well. He's in a top 3/4 (not sure I'm ready to count McKenna as a legit contender) for the spot.

My point was made in the context of people explaining his losses as if they were self-inflicted and not as if he just got out-wrestled by a guy on his level. In fact, he lost by doing the exact thing the poster I replied to critiqued him for "not" doing. You talk about excuses. My whole post was against excuses. Outside of the 2019 Open, there is nothing to suggest Yianni is a strong favorite to make the team. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bernard, you’re overdoing it a bit. Nobody expected Yianni to literally dominate the weight after the Open. I think lots of people rightfully expected his learning curve to continue to be as steep as the last year preceding that sick freestyle run, but even the most diehad Yianni fam knew a rematch with JO, let alone Zain could very well go quite differently.

Where reality and fans’ hopes diverged is on the steepness of his learning curve, at least for the time being. I don’t think Yianni has meaningfully improved since he beat Bajrsng and then Zain at the Yasar Dogu. And that’s the surprise more than the fact that he dropped a few matches to Zain and McKenna. I really don’t think it’s right to say Yianni was not as good as people thought. He’s neck and neck with anybody we have at 65 at worst, but it’s fair to say he hasn’t improved much since taking his redshirt. I personally think JO leaving for UNC had something, and maybe a lot, to do with that. JO is an incredible and very selfless practice partner and I have seen him teach elite talent (not just Yianni but also Pico, and even Dake credits JO for helping his footwork) little nuances that made a difference. 

As for the loss to McKenna, you are right about the sequence that cost Yianni the match. It was off his attack that he lost control of position and got countered. But ... did you not watch the rest of the match?? McKenna took 4 committed shots and one hard fake in the match. First shot, he got balls deep and forced Yianni into what I call the Exorcist position (Yianni’s patented freestyle funk where his body appears to do a full 360 around his head without exposing). The Exorcist barely saved him from giving up 2. Second shot, balls deep again, TD. Third shot? Balls deep again. Yianni conceded the push out so as to not give up another TD. Fourth shot? A sprawl!! You could just imagine a tear of joy rolling down Koll’s eye at the sight of it. It was on the jab step fake (McKenna’s fifth advance to Yianni’s zero) that Yianni finally capitalized with a perfect countershot to get his first TD. 

You are not going to win too many matches at the senior level when your opponent gets balls deep on his first three attempts (to your zero attempts, no less) unless you are Buvaisa Saitiev. Those wondering where the head-hands went are absolutely right to wonder. You can say Yianni shot to ice the match and got countered but it’s equally true if not truer that he shot so McKenna couldn’t, because whenever McKenna does commit, he is at worst 50/50 to score on Yianni. 

Edited by wrestlingnerd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/23/2019 at 7:46 PM, uncle bernard said:

To answer your last question, because he's better than those guys.

Yes, he won a couple international tournaments, but who did he beat? He was getting waxed by Musukaev before one of the greatest meltdowns of all time. Maybe I should be more clear. Yianni is elite and a contender to make the team and maybe even medal. However, there are many who expected him to dominate this weight class going forward like he dominated the 2019 Open. My point is that that was not a reasonable expectation. By his own admission, Oliver consistently beat him in the room. He's a 50/50 match up with Zain. Now he's been beaten by McKenna as well. He's in a top 3/4 (not sure I'm ready to count McKenna as a legit contender) for the spot.

My point was made in the context of people explaining his losses as if they were self-inflicted and not as if he just got out-wrestled by a guy on his level. In fact, he lost by doing the exact thing the poster I replied to critiqued him for "not" doing. You talk about excuses. My whole post was against excuses. Outside of the 2019 Open, there is nothing to suggest Yianni is a strong favorite to make the team. 

My 2c. The reason people bend over backwards to make excuses for Yianni is because the way he wrestles when he puts it all together is other worldly. He had a very high ceiling and speaking for myself I think he gets there and clocks the competition. I agree he isn’t there yet but when he’s on it’s more than a flash of brilliance. It is brilliance. I want Yianni to stop wrestling stupid and realize his high ceiling.
 

Compare to Zain Zain is just a hammer and it doesn’t seem likely thats going to change. He’s a straight charger and a brute and that got him everything you can get in college but it’s not looking enough to medal at this weight internationally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree Yianni has more tools and therefore possibly a higher ceiling. I will say this for Zain though. I thought he’d figure out how to turn guys from par terre better and am still holding out hope. I thought Zain’s techniques would translate better than they have so far. For example, I think that face rip technique he does with a leg in has potential.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a Yanni fan. Im just saying close calls can go either way.

Yanni got a close call at ncaa and McKenna got this one. Personally I didn't think McKenna had the two.

But really does not matter here both at Happy valley and I really don't know who clear cut favorite is. So seeding is irrelevant. IMHO

 

 

Edited by cangemi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, BigTimeFan said:

My 2c. The reason people bend over backwards to make excuses for Yianni is because the way he wrestles when he puts it all together is other worldly. He had a very high ceiling and speaking for myself I think he gets there and clocks the competition. I agree he isn’t there yet but when he’s on it’s more than a flash of brilliance. It is brilliance. I want Yianni to stop wrestling stupid and realize his high ceiling.
 

Compare to Zain Zain is just a hammer and it doesn’t seem likely thats going to change. He’s a straight charger and a brute and that got him everything you can get in college but it’s not looking enough to medal at this weight internationally.

I mostly agree with this, especially the reason why people make excuses. I think Yianni has the highest future ceiling of our prospects at this weight. I do think he has some limitations and is always going to have a couple guys that will give him major match up problems.

A lot of people complain about guys getting to his legs. This has been fundamental to his style from when I first saw him wrestle as an 8th grader. He's always been scramble reliant. His leg attacks have improved quite a bit the last few years, but he's always going to be a guy that creates scrambles. Guys that finish quickly and cleanly will always be a major problem for him because they both have a way to score on him and they take away one of his most reliable ways to score at the same time.

I don't think he should change his style, nor do I think he will. His current style utilizes his gifts of flexibility and feel to their maximum. I don't think trying to be something else will do him any good. Obviously, there are some things to clean up, but he shouldn't try to be someone he's not. His biggest mistake against McKenna wasn't technical, it was tactical. He both attacked head outside and then went to an Iranian finish which gave McKenna an opportunity to get to his ankles and scramble. I don't think he thought McKenna had that kind of scramble ability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

I mostly agree with this, especially the reason why people make excuses. I think Yianni has the highest future ceiling of our prospects at this weight. I do think he has some limitations and is always going to have a couple guys that will give him major match up problems.

A lot of people complain about guys getting to his legs. This has been fundamental to his style from when I first saw him wrestle as an 8th grader. He's always been scramble reliant. His leg attacks have improved quite a bit the last few years, but he's always going to be a guy that creates scrambles. Guys that finish quickly and cleanly will always be a major problem for him because they both have a way to score on him and they take away one of his most reliable ways to score at the same time.

I don't think he should change his style, nor do I think he will. His current style utilizes his gifts of flexibility and feel to their maximum. I don't think trying to be something else will do him any good. Obviously, there are some things to clean up, but he shouldn't try to be someone he's not. His biggest mistake against McKenna wasn't technical, it was tactical. He both attacked head outside and then went to an Iranian finish which gave McKenna an opportunity to get to his ankles and scramble. I don't think he thought McKenna had that kind of scramble ability.

I agree with this. Yianni isn’t likely to change his style a whole lot but he can change his tactics. No disrespect to McKenna but Yianni in my view is just the much better wrestler. It’s like when JB lost to what’s his face in the US way back. Dake and Taylor never beat him but some guy down the ladder did. Bad day. Bad tactics. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, BigTimeFan said:

I agree with this. Yianni isn’t likely to change his style a whole lot but he can change his tactics. No disrespect to McKenna but Yianni in my view is just the much better wrestler. It’s like when JB lost to what’s his face in the US way back. Dake and Taylor never beat him but some guy down the ladder did. Bad day. Bad tactics. 

You mean, "much better" in general...not, "much better" than McKenna?

Edited by Mphillips

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, BigTimeFan said:

My 2c. The reason people bend over backwards to make excuses for Yianni is because the way he wrestles when he puts it all together is other worldly. He had a very high ceiling and speaking for myself I think he gets there and clocks the competition. I agree he isn’t there yet but when he’s on it’s more than a flash of brilliance. It is brilliance. I want Yianni to stop wrestling stupid and realize his high ceiling.
 

Compare to Zain Zain is just a hammer and it doesn’t seem likely thats going to change. He’s a straight charger and a brute and that got him everything you can get in college but it’s not looking enough to medal at this weight internationally.

Agreed, Zain will change as needed to win, as that is his intention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, BigTimeFan said:

I agree with this. Yianni isn’t likely to change his style a whole lot but he can change his tactics. No disrespect to McKenna but Yianni in my view is just the much better wrestler. It’s like when JB lost to what’s his face in the US way back. Dake and Taylor never beat him but some guy down the ladder did. Bad day. Bad tactics. 

Nick Marable?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was definitely two. Disappointing but... yeah. All the talk about Yianni not taking shots and his loss to McKenna was for the same reason as his loss to Eierman. With 20 seconds left and a 2 point lead he should have been pretending to engage until the clock ran out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...