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Billyhoyle

Flo announcers need to improve

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I was watching the US Open finals today with people who don't know much about wrestling and it really crystalized one of the main issues with the way Flo announcers operate:

They are having a conversation, not actually calling the matches. This is utterly confusing most of the time and everyone is left wondering why they are ignoring the action going on on the mat.  

The job that Askren et al did announcing the US open finals was absolutely awful.  Sure, it was interesting to hear them chat, but most of the time they were just ignoring what was happening on the mat and instead focusing in on random facts about the athletes or talking about things that the athletes could be doing. Calling a wrestling match is not the same thing as talking on your podcast-that is not how announcing works.  The guys calling the matches should say what is happening in the match itself, in a clear and easy to understand way.  And yes, I understand that being an announcer isn't easy, but these guys have been at it for years and it's as if there has been next to no improvement over this time.  

Part of the problem may just be the "too many chefs" issue.  Flo should just try out a 2 man crew for a match with defined roles.  Have one person be the play by play guy, and another like Askren chime in with expert opinion during breaks in the action (e.g. after going out of bounds or pauses between periods).  The whole three person crew taking turns doing pbp and telling random stories nobody cares about just doesn't work and has never worked.  

Why is it only flo crews and not BTN or ESPN that have this problem?

Edited by Billyhoyle

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Ehh... did you not watch any other wrestling throughout the weekend?  They did quite well.  Nomad especially.

The finals was a bit different atmosphere to it, as they had also announced that Askren was joining FRL.  Kind of Disney playground effect.  They were happy, and being an avid FRL listener, I was right there with them.

Apologies if it sucked for you. It was awesome for me, and being as I watched wrestling the entire weekend, I know that they did well on the whole.  They get better damn near every large tournament like this.

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4 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Ehh... did you not watch any other wrestling throughout the weekend?  They did quite well.  Nomad especially.

The finals was a bit different atmosphere to it, as they had also announced that Askren was joining FRL.  Kind of Disney playground effect.  They were happy, and being an avid FRL listener, I was right there with them.

Apologies if it sucked for you. It was awesome for me, and being as I watched wrestling the entire weekend, I know that they did well on the whole.  They get better damn near every large tournament like this.

I just watched the finals and I don’t listen to FRL. I was hoping they would actually announce the matches.

I started this discussion because I think the reason they often do such a poor job announcing relative to BTN and NCAAs on  ESPN has to do with the points I made. It became obvious when watching with people who don’t follow international wrestling as closely as I do. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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4 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Why is it only flo crews and not BTN or ESPN that have this problem?

One reason: Yearlong lock-in. Subscribers feel displeasure from FloWrestling shortfall but the bad taste from any given incident dissipates over time. FloWrestling has got tons of room to become professional, zero incentive to do so.

Edited by jon

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1 hour ago, Billyhoyle said:

I just watched the finals and I don’t listen to FRL. I was hoping they would actually announce the matches.

I started this discussion because I think the reason they often do such a poor job announcing relative to BTN and NCAAs on  ESPN has to do with the points I made. It became obvious when watching with people who don’t follow international wrestling as closely as I do. 

That is a very fair assessment. I do agree when focusing on the finals matches as a whole.  On behalf of the entire FRL crew, I'd like to apologize.

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1 hour ago, jon said:

One reason: Yearlong lock-in. Subscribers feel displeasure from FloWrestling shortfall but the bad taste from any given incident dissipates over time. FloWrestling has got tons of room to become professional, zero incentive to do so.

In the stupidity that is Politically Correct, this doesn't bother me. I don't need buttoned-up jackets until the official tournaments(NCAAs and OTT/WTT). I don't get all dressed up at home for the Winter Solstice or Labor Day. Christmas and Easter does it.

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22 minutes ago, leshismore said:

Thank you for this.  I completely agree... they do a pretty good job.  Their hate comes from their insecurity. 

I’m insecure because I think the announcing is poor and I’m offering suggestions to make it better?

 

I’m simply saying flo could learn from watching ESPN, BTN, or any professional football, baseball, or basketball game. I think providing clear and relevant commentary would improve their product. I’m not saying the job is easy, but I think those guys are skilled enough to improve. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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7 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Ehh... did you not watch any other wrestling throughout the weekend?  They did quite well.  Nomad especially.

The finals was a bit different atmosphere to it, as they had also announced that Askren was joining FRL.  Kind of Disney playground effect.  They were happy, and being an avid FRL listener, I was right there with them.

Apologies if it sucked for you. It was awesome for me, and being as I watched wrestling the entire weekend, I know that they did well on the whole.  They get better damn near every large tournament like this.

Agreed.

Nomad is the best one at pure wrestling stuff.  He does a nice job on past matches and what's coming up.  Nomad should have been calling the finals.  Askren wasn't bad and had some decent insights into certain situations.  FLO doesn't have a decent 'color' guy and the ones that try to do it...leave a bit to be desired.

I also watched the entire tournament and thought they did a good job over all.

I've heard much, much worse on BTN almost regularly. 

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1 hour ago, Billyhoyle said:

I’m insecure because I think the announcing is poor and I’m offering suggestions to make it better?

 

I’m simply saying flo could learn from watching ESPN, BTN, or any professional football, baseball, or basketball game. I think providing clear and relevant commentary would improve their product. I’m not saying the job is easy, but I think those guys are skilled enough to improve. 

While I'm on your side of this, I can see why Flo does what they do. Obviously, whatever they do is working, since they have hands down the largest audience in the sport. They cater to a younger demo than the one I'm guessing you and I belong to. The service started as free gonzo journalism, if you recall, and has evolved from there. Even as an old fart, I don't think it's a bad product, even with the predictably consistent few cringeworthy moments per show.

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Speaking of Nomad, I actually thought he did a really nice job this weekend as well. He just comes off as being extremely passionate about the job and I think he actually takes feedback to try and improve. That being said, does anyone know why Jenna Burkert is calling him out? I didn’t notice anything overly biased when listening to him. Pyles commented on the tweet and basically said the weight of this accusation coming from a senior world team member is pretty heavy and he’d like her to be more specific with what she’s talking about. But she never responded. Kind of an interesting situation. 

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3 hours ago, goheels1812 said:
Pyles commented on the tweet and basically said the weight of this accusation coming from a senior world team member is pretty heavy and he’d like her to be more specific with what she’s talking about.

Lol! Lol!

Flo voice louder than is Jenna Burkert's but yet FloWrestling says untenable, unsubstantiated, thoughtless sht all the time. In this context Burkert speaks as a viewer--someone who tunes in--but Pyles gives consideration because she's a worldteamer. Just a fanboy.

Edited by jon

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I agree with @Billyhoyle‘s point on having defined roles. They just need a dedicated person who can clearly & accurately call the PBP, knows the rules, won’t scream at the top of their lungs at every bit of action and can reign in the color commentary guys and get them to refocus on the match.

In broadcast it kinda sucks because this person has to play the “straight man” and pretty much be a square while their partner gets to be the fun story guy - which I think might be part of why the Flo guys struggle with roles. No one wants to be the even-keeled nerd.

Once they have a good play by play person they’ll be fine. The storytellers can ramble all they want as long as there’s someone there to moderate and redirect that chatty energy into relevant entertainment. Look at Bill Walton, lmao.

Edited by pamela

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6 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

While I'm on your side of this, I can see why Flo does what they do. Obviously, whatever they do is working, since they have hands down the largest audience in the sport. They cater to a younger demo than the one I'm guessing you and I belong to. The service started as free gonzo journalism, if you recall, and has evolved from there. Even as an old fart, I don't think it's a bad product, even with the predictably consistent few cringeworthy moments per show.

I also think the product is good, which is why I pay to subscribe. It’s possible they have such a large audience because they cover so many important events, have a huge catalog of technique videos, and now deliver reliable streams. In other words, I think the announcing isn’t something that prevents people from subscribing, but is just one component of their overall excellent product that can be improved.

 

If anything I think younger wrestling fans would find it easier to follow the commentary if it were more focused, since the random things they often say are confusing to the average fan. 

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I really never understood constant play-by-play in wrestling videos.  We can see on the screen what’s happening and 99.9% of the audience is knowledgeable enough about the sport to know what’s occurring.   Imagine a basketball announcer explaining the guts dribbling, dribbling, dribbling, dribbling some more, passing,  now someone else is dribbling.   I mean sometimes the matches are explained in so much detail that it’s complete overkill.


Seems like most of the early match the announcer time would be better spent at the start giving background info (past wrestling accomplishments, human interest personal facts, who they beat earlier) and then keys to success in that match (their main scoring moves or what has worked in the past against opponent).  Sure that’s take a little prep, but that shouldn’t be to hard if a database is being built as they cover stuff.  We know the moves, but many fans may want to get to know the people and their history.  Especially if you want to help them build a fan base.
 

Then as the match progresses save most move discussion or even talking at all until scores or at least big scrambles.  Use the time to quickly break down of why that move was successful or something impressive with the scramble that prevented the score.  Occasionally sprinkle in some info on what opponents the winner gets next or if it qualifies someone for worlds/Olympics mention some of the top guys that person will have to beat to medal.  Dead air for a few second here and there is fine.  
 

But don’t play by play the whole thing.   I don’t like constant dead air, but also don’t need people talking just for the sake of talking.  

Edited by MadMardigain

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On 12/23/2019 at 9:41 AM, goheels1812 said:

Speaking of Nomad, I actually thought he did a really nice job this weekend as well. He just comes off as being extremely passionate about the job and I think he actually takes feedback to try and improve. That being said, does anyone know why Jenna Burkert is calling him out? I didn’t notice anything overly biased when listening to him. Pyles commented on the tweet and basically said the weight of this accusation coming from a senior world team member is pretty heavy and he’d like her to be more specific with what she’s talking about. But she never responded. Kind of an interesting situation. 

She replied saying she didn’t have any specific examples, but said she was going to watch again and supposedly email him.

 

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3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

She replied saying she didn’t have any specific examples, but said she was going to watch again and supposedly email him.

 

Kind of interesting that she was upset enough to blast him to the public, but she can’t remember any examples that would make her say that. I’m by no means a Flo apologist, but that’s really weird....

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