Your Best 6

[goheels1812 267]

I’m curious to know others thoughts on the best 6 the United States could send to the Olympics. I’m going to start by saying this is NOT OTT predictions. Pretend like the president of USA wrestling came to you and asked who do you think would be the most successful at each weight in the Olympics and why? This is not asking who you think will win the trials to represent USA, just who you think would have the best chances at medals if they were to represent USA. Again folks this is just other people’s opinions so no need to flame anyone. Also this isn’t intended to turn into a 14 page thread about how Spencer Lee could tech fall every opponent in the world regardless of their weight easily. 

Here are my 6:

57 kg: Spencer Lee. Maybe I’m just a victim of the moment but Spencer has me believing right now. I don’t think there’s anyone internationally that he couldn’t at least give a tough 6 minute match. Also if he absolutely needed 2 at the end of the match I trust him more than Gilman or Fix to get it. I honestly don’t even know where to begin thinking through his chances to medal based on lack of international results at the senior level, but I know he’d put on a hell of a show so that’s why I have him here. 
 

65 kg: Jordan Oliver. Right now I think we are seeing what everyone has been clamoring to see from JO for years now. He’s focused and steamrolling everyone in his path. If he takes this same mentality into the Olympics the sky is the limit for him. I just really love his upside here more than anyone else at 65 kg.

 

74 kg: Kyle Dake. I know a lot of people are going to go JB here. But for me I think in 2020 Dake has a higher floor than JB. JB probably has the better chance to flash and win a gold, but he also has a higher chance to flame out early and not medal at all. I think with Dake you know exactly what you’re going to get and I predict he medals barring something crazy happening (with the upside being he has the chops to compete for gold). 
 

86 kg: J’Den Cox (this is me assuming he goes down, not up): This was by far the hardest weight for me to decide. Two world class guys here in Cox and Taylor, both of which will be very much in the mix for a gold medal. I think both would be borderline locks for at least some medal. So ultimately I decided to go with “what have you done for me lately”. Taylor has been hurt and Cox just won a world championship without conceding a single point. I went with Cox, but I absolutely wouldn’t mind Taylor being the guy either. It was a 1A vs. 1B decision for me. 
 

97 kg: Kyle Snyder. With Cox at 86 kg this was a pretty easy decision. Snyder already has an Olympic gold medal in his cabinet and he’s still in his prime. I think he uses his 2019 world championship results and RTC change as motivation to come back in prime form. He’s another guy that’s a virtual lock to at least medal, with gold medal upside. 
 

125 kg: Gwiz. This was another tough decision as I think Gable is right on his heels. I think this will be Gwiz’s swan song before Gable catches him and takes the reigns as the USA heavy going forward. I think that here Gwiz’s upside is probably a bronze medal. I can’t see him being in contention for a gold. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by goheels1812
Grammar

[treep2000 866]

1 minute ago, goheels1812 said:

I’m curious to know others thoughts on the best 6 the United States could send to the Olympics. I’m going to start by saying this is NOT OTT predictions. Pretend like the president of USA wrestling came to you and asked who do you think would be the most successful at each weight in the Olympics and why? This is not asking who you think will win the trials to represent USA, just who you think would have the best chances at medals if they were to represent USA. Again folks this is just other people’s opinions so no need to flame anyone. Also this isn’t intended to turn into a 14 page thread about how Spencer Lee could tech fall every opponent in the world regardless of their weight easily. 

Here are my 6:

57 kg: Spencer Lee. Maybe I’m just a victim of the moment but Spencer has me believing right now. I don’t think there’s anyone internationally that he couldn’t at least give a tough 6 minute match. Also if he absolutely needed 2 at the end of the match I trust him more than Gilman or Fix to get it. I honestly don’t even know where to begin thinking through his chances to medal based on lack of international results at the senior level, but I know he’d put on a hell of a show so that’s why I have him here. 
 

65 kg: Jordan Oliver. Right now I think we are seeing what everyone has been clamoring to see from JO for years now. He’s focused and steamrolling everyone in his path. If he takes this same mentality into the Olympics the sky is the limit for him. I just really love his upside here more than anyone else at 65 kg.

 

74 kg: Kyle Dake. I know a lot of people are going to go JB here. But for me I think in 2020 Dake has a higher ceiling than JB. JB probably has the better chance to flash and win a gold, but he also has a higher chance to flame out early and not medal at all. I think with Dake you know exactly what you’re going to get and I predict he medals barring something crazy happening (with the upside being he has the chops to compete for gold). 
 

86 kg: J’Den Cox (this is me assuming he goes down, not up): This was by far the hardest weight for me to decide. Two world class guys here in Cox and Taylor, both of which will be very much in the mix for a gold medal. I think both would be borderline locks for at least some medal. So ultimately I decided to go with “what have you done for me lately”. Taylor has been hurt and Cox just won a world championship without conceding a single point. I went with Cox, but I absolutely wouldn’t mind Taylor being the guy either. It was a 1A vs. 1B decision for me. 
 

97 kg: Kyle Snyder. With Cox at 86 kg this was a pretty easy decision. Snyder already has an Olympic gold medal in his cabinet and he’s still in his prime. I think he uses his 2019 world championship results and RTC change as motivation to come back in prime form. He’s another guy that’s a virtual lock to at least medal, with gold medal upside. 
 

125 kg: Gwiz. This was another tough decision as I think Gable is right on his heels. I think this will be Gwiz’s swan song before Gable catches him and takes the reigns as the USA heavy going forward. I think that here Gwiz’s upside is probably a bronze medal. I can’t see him being in contention for a gold. 

Agreed 100% with the picks and supporting analysis.  Identical to my thoughts exactly.  

[spladle08 630]

I’m curious to know others thoughts on the best 6 the United States could send to the Olympics. I’m going to start by saying this is NOT OTT predictions. Pretend like the president of USA wrestling came to you and asked who do you think would be the most successful at each weight in the Olympics and why? This is not asking who you think will win the trials to represent USA, just who you think would have the best chances at medals if they were to represent USA. Again folks this is just other people’s opinions so no need to flame anyone. Also this isn’t intended to turn into a 14 page thread about how Spencer Lee could tech fall every opponent in the world regardless of their weight easily. 

Here are my 6:
57 kg: Spencer Lee. Maybe I’m just a victim of the moment but Spencer has me believing right now. I don’t think there’s anyone internationally that he couldn’t at least give a tough 6 minute match. Also if he absolutely needed 2 at the end of the match I trust him more than Gilman or Fix to get it. I honestly don’t even know where to begin thinking through his chances to medal based on lack of international results at the senior level, but I know he’d put on a hell of a show so that’s why I have him here. 
 
65 kg: Jordan Oliver. Right now I think we are seeing what everyone has been clamoring to see from JO for years now. He’s focused and steamrolling everyone in his path. If he takes this same mentality into the Olympics the sky is the limit for him. I just really love his upside here more than anyone else at 65 kg.
 
74 kg: Kyle Dake. I know a lot of people are going to go JB here. But for me I think in 2020 Dake has a higher floor than JB. JB probably has the better chance to flash and win a gold, but he also has a higher chance to flame out early and not medal at all. I think with Dake you know exactly what you’re going to get and I predict he medals barring something crazy happening (with the upside being he has the chops to compete for gold). 
 
86 kg: J’Den Cox (this is me assuming he goes down, not up): This was by far the hardest weight for me to decide. Two world class guys here in Cox and Taylor, both of which will be very much in the mix for a gold medal. I think both would be borderline locks for at least some medal. So ultimately I decided to go with “what have you done for me lately”. Taylor has been hurt and Cox just won a world championship without conceding a single point. I went with Cox, but I absolutely wouldn’t mind Taylor being the guy either. It was a 1A vs. 1B decision for me. 
 
97 kg: Kyle Snyder. With Cox at 86 kg this was a pretty easy decision. Snyder already has an Olympic gold medal in his cabinet and he’s still in his prime. I think he uses his 2019 world championship results and RTC change as motivation to come back in prime form. He’s another guy that’s a virtual lock to at least medal, with gold medal upside. 
 
125 kg: Gwiz. This was another tough decision as I think Gable is right on his heels. I think this will be Gwiz’s swan song before Gable catches him and takes the reigns as the USA heavy going forward. I think that here Gwiz’s upside is probably a bronze medal. I can’t see him being in contention for a gold. 

I think Gable is just better now. And has more of a chance on the world stage.

I think Lee is getting the Gross treatment from the Ferrel.
He crunched a bunch of guys we dont expect to make the team. Good for him. I think most of us had him in that top 3 (Fix/Gillman) going in.... and nothing has changed. He could be our rep, but I'll go Fix.


Agree on JO, Cox, Snyder....


I think Dake hype continues to be overblown in the wake of him dominating. A terrible weight. I dont think he is terrible but had he not been able to go and Ringer/Zahid was the rep these past few years. We wouldve had similar results. (Outside of the Gadzi crushing) .... anyways
JBs liability also overblown. We cant revel in his clutch gene when he wins in the last second then all of a sudden see it as a liability because the end result isnt a world title. Sidakov has gotten through Russia then JB/Chamizo, 2 world championships in a row... maybe hes just a murderer....

I think as always itll be close, but I think as always JB come out the rep

[goheels1812 267]

5 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

I think Gable is just better now. And has more of a chance on the world stage.

I think Lee is getting the Gross treatment from the Ferrel.
He crunched a bunch of guys we dont expect to make the team. Good for him. I think most of us had him in that top 3 (Fix/Gillman) going in.... and nothing has changed. He could be our rep, but I'll go Fix.


Agree on JO, Cox, Snyder....


I think Dake hype continues to be overblown in the wake of him dominating. A terrible weight. I dont think he is terrible but had he not been able to go and Ringer/Zahid was the rep these past few years. We wouldve had similar results. (Outside of the Gadzi crushing) .... anyways
JBs liability also overblown. We cant revel in his clutch gene when he wins in the last second then all of a sudden see it as a liability because the end result isnt a world title. Sidakov has gotten through Russia then JB/Chamizo, 2 world championships in a row... maybe hes just a murderer....

I think as always itll be close, but I think as always JB come out the rep

All completely fair points. For what it’s worth I’ve always been a huge JB fan. And I love the clutch gene he’s displayed time after time after time. I honestly don’t have any rebuttal in the form of results and factual analysis to your argument other than I just have a gut feeling on Dake this year and if it were up to me he’d be the guy. 

[spladle08 630]

All completely fair points. For what it’s worth I’ve always been a huge JB fan. And I love the clutch gene he’s displayed time after time after time. I honestly don’t have any rebuttal in the form of results and factual analysis to your argument other than I just have a gut feeling on Dake this year and if it were up to me he’d be the guy. 

Fair. I wonder If he doesnt make the team if he instantly hangs them up.
I started to type that about Dake but then I thought the same about JB. Wonder if this is the last year we see both of em.
Should be a great battle

[PSUMike 428]

To put together the best results possible, here is what I think.

57 - Lee

65 - Flip a coin between JO, Yianni, and Zain, the weight is a shark tank and they're all going to have similar results

74 - Dake

86 - Taylor

97 - Cox

125 - Snyder

[goheels1812 267]

4 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

Fair. I wonder If he doesnt make the team if he instantly hangs them up.
I started to type that about Dake but then I thought the same about JB. Wonder if this is the last year we see both of em.
Should be a great battle

My personal opinion is JB is a little more likely than Dake. The thing for Dake is he can keep destroying 79 kg world championships every year and make pretty good money doing it. That’s a little tougher for JB considering 74 kg is way more loaded than 79 kg internationally as you mentioned before. But I will say this, their rivalry has been epic over the years and it’ll be a sad day for USA wrestling when the first guys hangs them up. I really believe that’s been an iron sharpens iron situation and they’ve been making each other better the last few years. 

[spladle08 630]

My personal opinion is JB is a little more likely than Dake. The thing for Dake is he can keep destroying 79 kg world championships every year and make pretty good money doing it. That’s a little tougher for JB considering 74 kg is way more loaded than 79 kg internationally as you mentioned before. But I will say this, their rivalry has been epic over the years and it’ll be a sad day for USA wrestling when the first guys hangs them up. I really believe that’s been an iron sharpens iron situation and they’ve been making each other better the last few years. 

I'm just wondering If Dake goes all MMA but I do agree, dominating 79kg world titles is a solid proposition.
I'd be a little disappointed if Green has trained so much with JB he pulls a Marable. But we will cross that bridge when we get to lt

[wrestlingnerd 2,506]

Lee is a little more than Gross v2. He is heavily credentialed in age group FS. I understand 110 is not 125 but Lee just blitzed a field using largely FS techniques despite having barely practiced freestyle since two years ago (I’ll take his word for it even if a bit exaggerated). He made a pretty clear statement this weekend to me though. He’ll be in the finals. 
 

On the never-ending 74 Kg debate, I am sympathetic to the point that I think Dake has a higher relative ceiling, i.e. his best days may be ahead, even if only a few months ahead, while JB does appear to have passed those days. I truly have no dog here because JB is the man and I’d like to see him end a legendary career in style. But my eyes see a lesser version of JB and a Dake that’s still learning.

Edited December 23, 2019 by wrestlingnerd

[bnwtwg 174]

57 Fix. But no medal.

65 Yianni.  Best chance of a medal from the US, but ehhh 25% chance?

74 Burroughs. Barely, but we will find out soon.

86 Cox. Barely, but we may find out soon.

97 Snyder. But, again, we may find out soon.

125 Cassar. Hope his shoulder is OK, think he got his dose of reality in the first couple minutes with Bradley and he has the coaching staff to adjust. Not sure if he will be fully healed and also healed in time to peak for OTT. Here's to hoping he skips NCAAs and focuses on Olympics

[spladle08 630]

Lee is a little more than Gross v2. He is heavily credentialed in age group FS. I understand 110 is not 125 but Lee just blitzed a field using largely FS techniques despite having barely practiced freestyle since two years ago (I’ll take his word for it even if a bit exaggerated). He made a pretty clear statement this weekend to me though. He’ll be in the finals. 
 
On the never-ending 74 Kg debate, I am sympathetic to the point that I think Dake has a higher relative ceiling, i.e. his best days may be ahead, even if only a few months ahead, while JB does appear to have passed those days. I truly have no dog here because JB is the man and I’d like to see him end a legendary career in style. But my eyes see a lease version of JB and a Dake that’s still learning.

Lee is def better than Gross just meant the hype I've seen around mirrors what Gross got after the Ferrell .
I think most people had him in that Fix + Gilman group... hes still in there. He just solidified his position.

[spladle08 630]

57 Fix. But no medal.
65 Yianni.  Best chance of a medal from the US, but ehhh 25% chance?
74 Burroughs. Barely, but we will find out soon.
86 Cox. Barely, but we may find out soon.
97 Snyder. But, again, we may find out soon.
125 Cassar. Hope his shoulder is OK, think he got his dose of reality in the first couple minutes with Bradley and he has the coaching staff to adjust. Not sure if he will be fully healed and also healed in time to peak for OTT. Here's to hoping he skips NCAAs and focuses on Olympics

Cassar is a tough cat but that's a big stretch

[pamela 1,022]

@goheels1812 - that’s a good list. i would put JB at 74 (seasoned, clutch, crazy high mat IQ) and DT at 86 (too steep of a cut for cox) but either lineup would be solid.

i was also thinking what the second and third teams would look like and phew, even the backup lineups are pretty deep. 

57 - gilman / nato

65 - yianni / green (is he going 65?) or lee

74 - dake / imart 

86 - ringer / zahid 

97 - cox / nickal 

125 - cassar / steveson

Edited December 23, 2019 by pamela

[bnwtwg 174]

I am definitely aware it is a stretch. To be honest I wasn't a believer until this weekend. I thought Gwiz would be the man at least 3 of the 5 times between 2020 and 2024. I also really thought that Steveson just had to be humbled and discover cardio and technique matter as age groups progress. Finally, I thought that Cassar was, relatively speaking as an NCAA champ and junior world team member, a flash in the pan.

[wrestlingnerd 2,506]

5 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

Lee is def better than Gross just meant the hype I've seen around mirrors what Gross got after the Ferrell .
I think most people had him in that Fix + Gilman group... hes still in there. He just solidified his position.

I get it but Lee scorched the earth and blasted dudes into different planes of existence (how is that for hype?) while Gross was an ass hair away from losing to Suriano, a guy the likes of whom he’ll have to face right off the scale after a hellacious cut right off the scale at OTT. 

[spladle08 630]

I get it but Lee scorched the earth and blasted dudes into different planes of existence (how is that for hype?) while Gross was an ass hair away from losing to Suriano, a guy the likes of whom he’ll have to face right off the scale after a hellacious cut right off the scale at OTT. 

Well Lee didnt have to deal with Suriano... and Gross obviously did NATO dirtier.

Again I think Lee is better but he was already top 3. Just odd hype I guess.

He did look good. But Give me Fix

[goheels1812 267]

1 minute ago, spladle08 said:

Well Lee didnt have to deal with Suriano... and Gross obviously did NATO dirtier.

Again I think Lee is better but he was already top 3. Just odd hype I guess.

He did look good. But Give me Fix

Speaking of Fix does anyone know if he’s expected to have a tough cut to 57 kg? So far for NCAA 133 guys Gross’ cut has seemed brutal and Suriano’s has seemed manageable for his style. I know Fix is a shorter wrestler but he’s pretty bulky. 

[wrestlingnerd 2,506]

I don’t see Lee having any problems with Suriano, especially in freestyle. At 125, Suriano is not stronger, at least not functionally. He’s definitely not technically better. He’s positionally more sound but the push out and shot clocks are solid neutralizers against that in Lee’s favor. I don’t see it at all. 
 

My eyes cannot unsee how Lee lost to Fix eons ago. Call it fanboy excuse-making and I know pee wee results don’t count after puberty, but I see it going the same way except Lee is not as sloppy this time and learned his lesson on Fox’s bread and butter reattacks. 

[wrestlingnerd 2,506]

4 minutes ago, goheels1812 said:

Speaking of Fix does anyone know if he’s expected to have a tough cut to 57 kg? So far for NCAA 133 guys Gross’ cut has seemed brutal and Suriano’s has seemed manageable for his style. I know Fix is a shorter wrestler but he’s pretty bulky. 

Total nonfactor. Fix has always been a good weight cutter and he made the world team after a whole season at 133 showing no signs of a bad cut. With a full year to adjust if he even needed to, no problem at all. 

[nhs67 469]

7 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Total nonfactor. Fix has always been a good weight cutter and he made the world team after a whole season at 133 showing no signs of a bad cut. With a full year to adjust if he even needed to, no problem at all. 

This.

And I don't think he was managing 133 with the idea of going 125.5 shortly after. I think he worried about 57 keggers after the season was over. I wish more of our guys handled the cut like Fix.

[2td3nf 469]

Posted these on the other thread but why not join the party here:      

57 Lee

65 Yianni

74 Dake

86 Taylor

97 Snyder

125 Parris 

[Mokoma 87]

1 hour ago, pamela said:

@goheels1812 - that’s a good list. i would put JB at 74 (seasoned, clutch, crazy high mat IQ) and DT at 86 (too steep of a cut for cox) but either lineup would be solid.

i was also thinking what the second and third teams would look like and phew, even the backup lineups are pretty deep. 

57 - gilman / nato

65 - yianni / green (is he going 65?) or lee

74 - dake / imart 

86 - ringer / zahid 

97 - cox / nickal 

125 - cassar / steveson

Is it Fix or Lee that doesn’t even make the top 3?  Why NATO over Gross?

[ConnorsDad 394]

4 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Lee is a little more than Gross v2. He is heavily credentialed in age group FS. I understand 110 is not 125 but Lee just blitzed a field using largely FS techniques despite having barely practiced freestyle since two years ago (I’ll take his word for it even if a bit exaggerated). He made a pretty clear statement this weekend to me though. He’ll be in the finals. 
 

On the never-ending 74 Kg debate, I am sympathetic to the point that I think Dake has a higher relative ceiling, i.e. his best days may be ahead, even if only a few months ahead, while JB does appear to have passed those days. I truly have no dog here because JB is the man and I’d like to see him end a legendary career in style. But my eyes see a lesser version of JB and a Dake that’s still learning.

Well said. I believe it was Spladle earlier mentioned this but I'm going to mention it and I think both negatives are true. There's no doubt in my mind JB has lost a step. You only have to look at his age if nothing else. He's still elite but he's not as good as he was. There's also no doubt that 79 kilos this year was absolutely horrific. I mean to be honest it probably shouldn't even have been a weight class, LOL. So I don't think Dake is the world beater that he appears to be in that weight class. This is coming from somebody who is a Cornell/American fan. I hope Kyle wins it (Yianni too) but I don't think either one of them, Dake or JB, will be in their prime next year.

 

[pamela 1,022]

7 hours ago, Mokoma said:

Is it Fix or Lee that doesn’t even make the top 3?  Why NATO over Gross?

Fix. I had Spencer Lee as my “best 6” pick with Gilman and NaTo on the second and third teams, respectively. Tomasellp over Gross bc he looked pretty sharp at Seniors and Gross will be wrestling at trials shortly after NCAAs, which seems like a real grind, plus the weight cut.

[Mokoma 87]

2 hours ago, pamela said:

Fix. I had Spencer Lee as my “best 6” pick with Gilman and NaTo on the second and third teams, respectively. Tomasellp over Gross bc he looked pretty sharp at Seniors and Gross will be wrestling at trials shortly after NCAAs, which seems like a real grind, plus the weight cut.

So you actually have Fix 5th, or lower?