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GuillermoBilletas

i really enjoyed the Rutgers era

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Re: Winston. The guy was held together with baling wire and tape for the past two years. He did well to hang in and continue competing. I'll give him a pass.

But I really thought some combination of Melde, Rinaldi, or Mason would cop an AA at some point in their careers.

Danged if I know what it is, but there is obviously a missing ingredient at Rutgers. JJH

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The staff at RU hasn't done a good job of developing talent. Sometimes the obvious answer is also the correct answer.

NJ kids thrive in other programs, some on big campuses, some on small. Some in urban areas (Santos), some in rural areas (Green).

The kids at RU haven't improved, not a little bit. A lineup with the credentials that the RU kids have should put out multiple AAs on a regular basis.

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That might be the dumbest thing I've read on here, and that's saying something.

Very true. You really have to love the quote: "Ya never saw Mocco eating a tofu salad with brown rice and Wasabi sauce."

I lived in Japan for a long time (14 years). I saw lots of Japanese national champs eating tofu, usually with white rice :lol:

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NJ HS wrestling is one of the top three wrestling states in the USA. As a state, it consistently produces great college wrestlers. No reason to think that it won't continue to do so.

That said, there are too many guys from NJ on that team. Recruit somebody else and put some spice in the stew.

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I don't think it has to do with too many NJ guys, too much tofu, or too much hair gel. I think the staff at RU isn't at the same level as some of the top programs in the country.

If Brands or Sanderson had brought in Winston, Melde, Rinaldi, Mason, Langel, Della Fave 4 years ago, is there any doubt that they would have produced multiple AAs with that group, possibly a NC or two?

Put Goodale in more of an administrative/ambassadorial role, and let top level coach take over.

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I hate to be the PC police here but that's a good point. How does Penn State, located in the middle of nowhere, have a more diverse lineup than Rutgers? Look at the PSU lineup and you see a cross section of high school wrestling. Look at the Rutgers lineup and it looks like the team is made up of Jersey Shore castoffs. Is The Situation the ideal recruit for wrestling?

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I love throwing his name around, so I'll do it some more: Mark Perry. The dude is a proven commodity. Throw in Cooperman and maybe pull Mocco from his budding MMA career and it could make for quite a nice team.

 

Plus Rutgers would have a great shot at getting Perry. He's shown he has absolutely no loyalty to anyone or anything so far at every step in his wrestling/coaching career. There is no doubting his talent.

 

On the other hand the first program that is higher profile than Rugters offers him the Head Coach job and he'll be out of town before you can say "Benedict Arnold".

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I don't think it has to do with too many NJ guys, too much tofu, or too much hair gel. I think the staff at RU isn't at the same level as some of the top programs in the country.

If Brands or Sanderson had brought in Winston, Melde, Rinaldi, Mason, Langel, Della Fave 4 years ago, is there any doubt that they would have produced multiple AAs with that group, possibly a NC or two?

Put Goodale in more of an administrative/ambassadorial role, and let top level coach take over.

NJWC..easier said then done brother.Goodale is in a binding contract with Rutgers.They can't get rid of him.what they can do,is get rid of the dead weight..which is Leonardis and Pollard.

 

I hear ya man, but they obviously need to do something. They have another wave of talented kids coming in (to go with guys like Visicaro, who still has time). Beef up the staff. They have guys coaching that have weaker credentials than guys coaching our local youth program, and that's not an exaggeration.

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I'd say look at all the studs who wash out at Oklahoma State, Iowa and Penn State ... there's a fair amount of washouts of good HS talent at those programs too. Now consider the fact those programs have those studs as workout partners, not starters. You have to understand the program and it's relevance and what's around them.

 

Washouts of good HS talent are on every one of the good teams, but more noticeable at the mid-level programs, because they're the best kids they get.

 

Basically, it's cherry picking. Rutgers is head and shoulders above what they were 10 years ago. It's not even close to being debatable.

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I'd say look at all the studs who wash out at Oklahoma State, Iowa and Penn State ... there's a fair amount of washouts of good HS talent at those programs too. Now consider the fact those programs have those studs as workout partners, not starters. You have to understand the program and it's relevance and what's around them.

 

Washouts of good HS talent are on every one of the good teams, but more noticeable at the mid-level programs, because they're the best kids they get.

 

Basically, it's cherry picking. Rutgers is head and shoulders above what they were 10 years ago. It's not even close to being debatable.

 

Don't believe anyone is trying to debate that.

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I hate to be the PC police here but that's a good point. How does Penn State, located in the middle of nowhere, have a more diverse lineup than Rutgers? Look at the PSU lineup and you see a cross section of high school wrestling. Look at the Rutgers lineup and it looks like the team is made up of Jersey Shore castoffs. Is The Situation the ideal recruit for wrestling?

 

Um, Cael Sanderson.

 

Um, Penn State is a damned good school that draws kids from out of state.

 

Um, Penn State has a big time athletic department.

 

NJ produces a lot of quality wrestlers, and Rutgers is in a position to capitalize on that. But it needs a better coaching staff to develop talent and even if it becomes competitive it will always have difficulty competing against the established Big 10 programs for recruits nationally. College athletes at schools like PSU, tOSU, Nebraska, Iowa, etc. Have it pretty damned good, middle of nowhere or no.

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Washouts of good HS talent are on every one of the good teams, but more noticeable at the mid-level programs, because they're the best kids they get.

 

Basically, it's cherry picking. Rutgers is head and shoulders above what they were 10 years ago. It's not even close to being debatable.

 

 

Rutgers 10 years ago (2003 -2004) 4th EIWA championships, 46th NCAA championships

 

 

Rutgers today (2013) - 5th EIWA championships, 35th NCAA championships.

 

 

They are not really head and shoulders above where they were even though everyone keeps pointing that out. I think it is debateable, although I would agree Rutgers is better off now. Dual meets they are head and shoulders above where they were, but overall, not really as much. Goodale has had 1 EIWA champ. THe former coach had 1 too. The former coach had an AA. Goodale has not. The former coach had over 60 place winners in the EIWA tourney over 16 years. Goodale has had over 30 through 6, which is certainly better, but not "head and shoulders above" where they were.

 

There has been an improvement, but when you look at the talent being recruited, and the results obtained, there is an issue. Most on the board want Goodale to stick around. We just want to see the talent developed more. Other programs are doing more with less. That is not debateable, which is why there is an issue.

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I think Goodale has done more than enough to justify staying for a good part of another recruiting cycle. I think people have been spoiled by Cael's rise to the top and forget how long it took guys like Brian Smith and Rob Koll to build those program.

 

Jason is right, how many state placers, state champions, and top 100 recruits went to Penn State under Cael and aren't at the program or ever expected to contribute? Every program has this issue but the top programs bring in 10 of these guys a year not 5 in one huge recruiting class.

 

Everyone talks about the wonders Dresser has done at Virginia Tech--and they are right--but this is their best season ever and three AAs and a school highest 4th place finisher would surprize most that Virginia Tech has never done better.

 

Can you name all of the National Champions at Mizzou? It is easy, there aren't many. My point: it is a challenge to build a solid lineup, and even harder to get to the top. Goodale has done wonders. It is his program; just like I advocated with KJ, give him time.

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I'd say look at all the studs who wash out at Oklahoma State, Iowa and Penn State ... there's a fair amount of washouts of good HS talent at those programs too. Now consider the fact those programs have those studs as workout partners, not starters. You have to understand the program and it's relevance and what's around them.

 

Washouts of good HS talent are on every one of the good teams, but more noticeable at the mid-level programs, because they're the best kids they get.

 

Basically, it's cherry picking. Rutgers is head and shoulders above what they were 10 years ago. It's not even close to being debatable.

 

Nice straw man, and also thanks for explaining how college wrestling programs work, none of us would have ever known.

Goodale is a good guy, a great ambassador for the sport in NJ, and he deserves a ton of credit (as has been touched on ad nauseum). That said, the staff needs an overhaul, and everyone paying attention realizes it. There are plenty of eyes on that program right now, among the HS coaches/wrestlers in NJ. Everyone wants to see RU succeed, but at some point there has to be a return on the investment. It's not happening right now.

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At least one possible solution comes to mind: Fire Goodale and hire Damian Hahn.

 

Hahn is Jersey guy, a legend in the state and in the sport overall. He knows the Big 10, where Rutgers is headed, however foolishly. He has been coaching in a good program. He's an affable guy who would be an even better recruiter where he doesn't have to worry about a kids grades (just that he can read, and maybe not that if the kid is a true stud).

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Dan, I think your impression of Rutgers academically is a little misguided. There's a NJ state champ that won't be going to RU, from what I understand, due almost strictly to academics. He'll be wrestling D1, but not for RU.

 

I like the idea of Hahn, he'd be a great fit. Maybe co head coach?

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Dan, I think your impression of Rutgers academically is a little misguided. There's a NJ state champ that won't be going to RU, from what I understand, due almost strictly to academics. He'll be wrestling D1, but not for RU.

 

I like the idea of Hahn, he'd be a great fit. Maybe co head coach?

 

 

..why would Hahn leave Cornell to be the co-head coach for Rutgers/

 

..that's a huge step backwards!

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Not co-head (who's ever heard of a co-head coach in any sport). Fire Goodale. Hire Hahn.

 

Sorry about the dig on academics. I am sure most Rutgers kids can read.

 

I didn't know what you meant with this statement: "I like the idea of Hahn, he'd be a great fit. Maybe co head coach?"

 

.

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I think Rider finished 40th? Not positive. If someone told me 3 years ago Rider and Rutgers would finish within 5 spots of each other at nationals in 2013, I would have bet the house on Rutgers and lost...

 

 

How does Rider do on the recruiting front? I know they had decent teams back in the 90s if I remember correctly. I really don't know a lot about their program. Are they on the rise, stagnant, in decline? Do they have a legitimate shot at beating Rutgers or making it competitive in the near future?

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