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TobusRex

John Smith - How Much Longer?

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I expect to get some nasty comments for asking, but how much longer does John have as OSU's coach? I reckon a common sentiment will be that John will be at OSU as long as he wants to be at OSU regardless of what happens on the mat.

John's old. Yeah, he's MY age. He's got to be feeling his age, and it happens to all of us if we live long enough. His results have dropped off as Head Coach and the Cowboys haven't won an NCAA team title in 13 years. How long does OSU continue to accept that sort of futility? OSU was long ago surpassed by PSU, and seems to be lagging behind Iowa/Ohio State the last decade. These days OSU finishing 3rd at NCAAs is reason to celebrate. Not only that but some upstart teams are popping up that could also steal OSU's thunder and surpass OSU in the long haul (ASU, NCSU). Soon OSU might be lucky to finish in the top 5 at NCAAs.

Has John achieved "untouchable" status because of his legendary wrestling career and it doesn't matter how much results drop off? Is he on thin ice? Is he considering retirement? What's the story?

Ultimately the question is: who is a better recruiter/coach than John Smith? Cael is, for sure, but he ain't going anywhere. Brands? I don't think he's any better than John. Maybe worse, but I think it's inconclusive. Brands seems to get the better wrestlers, for the most part.  Plus Brands is nearly as old as John Smith. Tom Ryan? There's a case to be made that he's better than John at this point. Maybe OSU can't do any better than John Smith. Maybe it's time to shuffle John upstairs to an AD type position and get some young blood in there.

Discuss.

Edited by TobusRex

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OK is his recruiting base and he needs to find a way to overcome is the relative lack of talent there.  In the 13 year dry spell they are experiencing, Chris Perry won a title for OSU and Mark Perry won for Iowa.  Apart from those two, Johny Hendricks is the last native Okie champ I can think of.  That appears to be a departure from the glory decades.

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Too many issues at the top half of their line-up due to Smith’s son gaining weight and wrestling multiple weight classes. Say what you want, but this absolutely cannot be good for any program. I can’t think of any other team where AA wrestlers are moving around so much. 

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12 minutes ago, SamStall365247 said:

Too many issues at the top half of their line-up due to Smith’s son gaining weight and wrestling multiple weight classes. Say what you want, but this absolutely cannot be good for any program. I can’t think of any other team where AA wrestlers are moving around so much. 

NM, I don't really care.

Edited by Plasmodium

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Whoever they do get, they have to be able to lock up Oklahoma recruiting. I get that Oklahoma is in a bit of a dry spell for titles, but they do have Fix, Gfeller, Brock, Witchcraft, Smith, and other Oklahoma born AAs. 
  
OSU’s problem isn’t depth or recruiting. They just need a couple guys to break though. Fix is one of those guys (worst case he places 3rd I think) and there has to be at least 1 or 2 more title contender coming in. 
  
2021-2022 is going to be the year for OSU. Iowa and PSU will have reloaded too, but OSU may be hard to catch. 

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Does anyone see Coleman Scott as a viable choice here? Credentialed wrestler and young with connections to PA. He has done well at North Carolina. I can't decide if he has done enough as a coach to take the spot at such a big time program. 

The problem is that you almost need to bring in a big name to maintain to aura of OK St.

Other options:

Mark Branch
Pat Pop
A Perry Bro combo?

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7 hours ago, TobusRex said:

I expect to get some nasty comments for asking, but how much longer does John have as OSU's coach? I reckon a common sentiment will be that John will be at OSU as long as he wants to be at OSU regardless of what happens on the mat.

 

I believe this is the answer.

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3 hours ago, SamStall365247 said:

Too many issues at the top half of their line-up due to Smith’s son gaining weight and wrestling multiple weight classes. Say what you want, but this absolutely cannot be good for any program. I can’t think of any other team where AA wrestlers are moving around so much. 

It’s because they have their guys cutting too much weight. I feel like their guys are always depleted and perform poorly by the end of the year. Need to shed that old school mentality and have their guys wrestle at a more natural weight. 

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I may be in the minority and get some flack for this, but I still just think John Smith did Chandler Rogers wrong. And it doesn’t help the optics that it was so his son could drop a weight class for the NCAA tournament. I get that Joe won the wrestle offs, but it still left a sour taste in my mouth after everything Rogers did for the program in his career. Hindsight is always 20/20 but Joe Smith didn’t place at 165, Jacobe Smith didn’t place at 174, and Geer placed 7th at 184. Not exactly beating the world there with the last minute weight class changes. 
 

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26 minutes ago, CoachWrestling said:

It’s because they have their guys cutting too much weight. I feel like their guys are always depleted and perform poorly by the end of the year. Need to shed that old school mentality and have their guys wrestle at a more natural weight. 

It does seem that there are dozens of stories of those OSU kids cutting a lot of weight and not just recently with Marsteller. It goes back to T.J. Jaworsky who transfers to UNC and goes up in weight and is extremely successful. 

Plasmodium also brings up a good point that Oklahoma's talent seems down and that is mostly where John is recruiting, along with PA and all of the other D1 coaches. If you look down the road in Norman, Lou is not burning up any records recruiting the Okies either. He is looking at Ohio and other states as well.  

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32 minutes ago, CoachWrestling said:

It’s because they have their guys cutting too much weight. I feel like their guys are always depleted and perform poorly by the end of the year. Need to shed that old school mentality and have their guys wrestle at a more natural weight. 

Which guys are cutting too much weight? 

This tired old idea is based off of how they ran their program a decade ago.  Their entire team this year probably has one guy cutting even a decent amount of weight (picc).  And their upperweights that you responded to are all small, showing you weren't actually responding to the comment, you were just looking to climb a soapbox.

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13 minutes ago, goheels1812 said:

I may be in the minority and get some flack for this, but I still just think John Smith did Chandler Rogers wrong. And it doesn’t help the optics that it was so his son could drop a weight class for the NCAA tournament. I get that Joe won the wrestle offs, but it still left a sour taste in my mouth after everything Rogers did for the program in his career. Hindsight is always 20/20 but Joe Smith didn’t place at 165, Jacobe Smith didn’t place at 174, and Geer placed 7th at 184. Not exactly beating the world there with the last minute weight class changes. 
 

I don't think you're the minority, and you're definitely right.  Geer wanted to drop so him and Jacobe at their weights was how it should be.  Especially after Geer bumped most of the season for the team.  He got to wrestle where he belonged and that was good.  But Joe Smith shouldn't have even been allowed to wrestle off after the 'season' he had.  

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2 minutes ago, boconnell said:

Which guys are cutting too much weight? 

This tired old idea is based off of how they ran their program a decade ago.  Their entire team this year probably has one guy cutting even a decent amount of weight (picc).  And their upperweights that you responded to are all small, showing you weren't actually responding to the comment, you were just looking to climb a soapbox.

It’s incredibly obvious when you watch their guys compete. Joe Smith at 157 would be one easy example. 

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I'd definitely agree on Popolizio.  And I wouldn't have thought this a few years ago, but I think Cormier would be a fantastic replacement for John Smith.  I'm sure John could still definitely f some s up, but he always looks worn out & pissed off.  

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22 minutes ago, boconnell said:

Which guys are cutting too much weight? 

This tired old idea is based off of how they ran their program a decade ago.  Their entire team this year probably has one guy cutting even a decent amount of weight (picc).  And their upperweights that you responded to are all small, showing you weren't actually responding to the comment, you were just looking to climb a soapbox.

Whitlake redshirted at 174, said he was going to hit 190 in the offseason and is now at 165.   Said he wished he did 79kg instead of 74kg but the coaches wanted to see him at the lower weight. 

https://pistolsfiringblog.com/travis-wittlake-interview-reveals-weight-plans-for-next-season/

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23 minutes ago, Gantry said:

Whitlake redshirted at 174, said he was going to hit 190 in the offseason and is now at 165.   Said he wished he did 79kg instead of 74kg but the coaches wanted to see him at the lower weight. 

https://pistolsfiringblog.com/travis-wittlake-interview-reveals-weight-plans-for-next-season/

I could be wrong, but in another thread it was mentioned that Joe Smith was also battling to get down to weight. 

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