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20 hours ago, goheels1812 said:

Ramos had one of the more up and down college careers that I’ve seen. AA as a freshman and then never made the podium again. Granted he did have some injuries to battle, but even when he was healthy he just never regained his freshman form. And you’re exactly right, for whatever reason he wrestles Zahid really well. (Fully acknowledging my obvious bias here) I actually think Ramos had an uncalled takedown to beat Valencia in a dual when Ramos was a senior. 

he also lost on a video review vs ZV, he wasn't healthy all that much during the rest of his career at CH,tried to wrestle thru though . 

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You're right about KDake losing 5kg.  That's about 11 pounds off of what I would call a perfect wrestling physique.  I thought his face was beginning to look sucked in at 79.  I doubt it will be an issue, but when a guy goes up every season, he's probably not cut too hard before, and I think this will be a pretty tough cut.  You don't get to be a 2x World Champ without having the mental capacity to do it, if it's physically possible.

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You're right about KDake losing 5kg.  That's about 11 pounds off of what I would call a perfect wrestling physique.  I thought his face was beginning to look sucked in at 79.  I doubt it will be an issue, but when a guy goes up every season, he's probably not cut too hard before, and I think this will be a pretty tough cut.  You don't get to be a 2x World Champ without having the mental capacity to do it, if it's physically possible.
I dont think the cut hurts Dake. But the styles of 2 "you go first" guys had me interested.

Watch any of Chamizo's matches from last years Worlds. He stands straight up, seemingly disinterested in 90% of them and the opponent stays in position and knows not to attack in 90% of them (Sidakov was effective).

Dake stays in position but as we all know is counter city. Which makes me wonder does he fire off attacks vs Chamizo or do we get the staring match.

Youd think since it's not a super meaningful tourney, they mix it up to get a feel. But we will see.

The weight cut wont hurt Dake as much as the increase in quality of opponent will. Think of James Green world finalist 70kg vs what we've seen of JG at real weights (although he was impressive last time out)

1 week away

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13 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

Note : I already see the future and its people citing the weight cut as the reason he becomes less dominant. Not the increase in quality opposition.

 

 

It can be a combination of both.

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It can be a combination of both.
I dont think the cut (again I assume our top guys are very professional) is going to be that detrimental. But he has had some battles with Hasanov.
I think most people would say the top 10 at 74kg would handle Hasanov more times than not.... I'm not predicting him to lose.... just have closer matches..... and I do predict Burroughs getting the spot and I do predict people saying "well the cut is such...." which is just just not true.....
Same with Jden. I'm the biggest fan. But if he loses he loses. It has nothing to do with the cut. I hope he makes the team and I believe he will but I'm not going to be "one of those "

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1 hour ago, spladle08 said:

I dont think the cut hurts Dake. But the styles of 2 "you go first" guys had me interested.

Watch any of Chamizo's matches from last years Worlds. He stands straight up, seemingly disinterested in 90% of them and the opponent stays in position and knows not to attack in 90% of them (Sidakov was effective).

Dake stays in position but as we all know is counter city. Which makes me wonder does he fire off attacks vs Chamizo or do we get the staring match.

Youd think since it's not a super meaningful tourney, they mix it up to get a feel. But we will see.

The weight cut wont hurt Dake as much as the increase in quality of opponent will. Think of James Green world finalist 70kg vs what we've seen of JG at real weights (although he was impressive last time out)

1 week away

Good take. I hope that a Dake - Chamizo match doesn’t get decided by who is put on the shot clock, which can be somewhat arbitrary, and that they let it fly a bit given the stakes.

Optics wise, I can’t tell if Chamizo’s upright stance helps or hurts him in getting a passivity call when facing other counter wrestlers. Could seem like he’s exerting control of center mat, or it could come off as “not wrestling” to the mat officials.

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Good take. I hope that a Dake - Chamizo match doesn’t get decided by who is put on the shot clock, which can be somewhat arbitrary, and that they let it fly a bit given the stakes.
Optics wise, I can’t tell if Chamizo’s upright stance helps or hurts him in getting a passivity call when facing other counter wrestlers. Could seem like he’s exerting control of center mat, or it could come off as “not wrestling” to the mat officials.
100% and I like that take, just as a general reference to passivity calls, they're just so arbitrary and I've heard an official talk about sometimes they put the more aggressive/active wrestler on first so he can be rewarded with the 2nd half passivity call. It sounds fair (because they almost always balance the calls) but also doesnt sound like a real justification for calling it.
And thinking back Chamizo almost always gives up the first point... I think your "appearance of inactivity" theory, has a real anchor in reality.
*tips cap.

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On 1/11/2020 at 9:14 AM, spladle08 said:

Yessir. They are both, Defensive experts,  but Chamizo is unique and as you said, super creative, I think he is going to create some flurries, and with both guys comfortable with upper body stuff... I feel like a 4 will be given up before it's all said and done. 
I do hope somebody gets a decent lead early and makes the other guy start wrestling. 
I'd be so disappointed at  2 shot clock points and a step-out 2-1 type decision.... which this could also easily be. 
give me an 8-8 criteria win. 
 

I think you're mostly right, but while they are both extremely crafty counter wrestlers, Dake is one of the cleanest  and smartest finishers, and I do not recall any time that he has gotten bombed (aside from in practice against Harry Lester, but that's a different thread). I would tend to think it would be a low scoring affair, with a lot of scambling and no par-terre scores.  Give me 6-4 Dake with a 4 pointer and a takedown to Chamizo's 1 legit TD and one gimme at the end when Dake is protecting the lead.

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I thought Dake was not fully recovered from surgery last year. IMO he was about 75%.   I'm more curious to see if he's more comfortable in neutral.   I guess you guys know something I don't since you know that J'Den and Kyle will neither one be effected by cutting down a weight.  It ruined me in college, but I suppose the how much and how to are both healthier in the modern era.

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They are professionals, and if they handle the body composition adjustment professionally, they will likely be fine.  If anything I think Cox will have more trouble than Dake, but they are both so unreal stingey and efficient with their positions and movements, I think they will handle it well. I really don't think Burroughs is pulling a lot less to get on the scale than Dake. Taylor might be able to break Cox's conditioning if he is feeling sucked out (Dude is huge), but Cox's match IQ and technical prowess are insanely underrated.  So, I think it will certainly effect both of them, but I don't see either of them having a massive performance decrease, like a James Green, because of the style in which they compete.

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23 hours ago, spladle08 said:

I dont think the cut (again I assume our top guys are very professional) is going to be that detrimental. But he has had some battles with Hasanov.
I think most people would say the top 10 at 74kg would handle Hasanov more times than not....

Come on now... put some respect on my man's name.  Hasanov certainly isn't my favorite, but he's won 5 world medals across 10 years at 3 weight classes, to go along with a slew of other Euro and regular season medals.  

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1 minute ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Come on now... put some respect on my man's name.  Hasanov certainly isn't my favorite, but he's won 5 world medals across 10 years at 3 weight classes, to go along with a slew of other Euro and regular season medals.  

Oh he is consistently towards the top,  but he has also faded a bit.

He generally beats the guys he is supposed to. I guess saying "he would get handled by the Top 10" was a bit hyperbole. 
He did beat Bekzod at that Olympics ('16) which was nice.
But  yeah I mean 2 of those 5 medals were these recent ones to Dake in some of the weakest weight classes of all times (yes I acknowledge they're still world medals)
and the other 2 were Bronzes from 10 and 11....
Again, I'll give you the 2016 Olympic Bronze, that was a performance, he almost got by Geudeuv to make the finals, and then did get my Bekzod to win that Bronze (Golf clap)

I guess I was just saying "current Hasanov (while tough) is not of the caliber of the guys you'll see at 74kg, I think the fact that their matches were competitive can allow you to predict the dominance Dake has had over lesser guys, won't translate to the deeper class, I do think he will still be a winner more often than not, but I also think the increase in real competition will result in closer matches, and people will say: he's cutting too much... instead of: He's wrestling a tougher weight class."
 

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2 hours ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Come on now... put some respect on my man's name.  Hasanov certainly isn't my favorite, but he's won 5 world medals across 10 years at 3 weight classes, to go along with a slew of other Euro and regular season medals.  

Gonna take a little bit to adjust from reading your posts in the voice of Cameron Poe to the sultry sound of the Gambler...

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On 1/12/2020 at 8:29 AM, spladle08 said:


Watch any of Chamizo's matches from last years Worlds. He stands straight up, seemingly disinterested in 90% of them and the opponent stays in position and knows not to attack in 90% of them (Sidakov was effective).

While I accept it's Chamizo's general style, I just watched his matches from last years tourney, he was pretty damn engaged and I was talking out of my a$$ above.....
 just felt like I had to add this correction.
*Bring on Saturday

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On 1/12/2020 at 3:40 PM, Peso said:

I guess you guys know something I don't since you know that J'Den and Kyle will neither one be effected by cutting down a weight.  It ruined me in college, but I suppose the how much and how to are both healthier in the modern era.

Personally, I always thought 74 was the ideal weight for Dake, but was forced to go up to make the team. He has filled out 79 really well, so he will have to lose some of the muscle mass to make the cut reasonable, but I don't think it will be a big issue for him. I am worried about J'den's cut if he goes 86 (which I think he is). I didn't think it was reasonable when he first talked about going down in 2016, as he hadn't been that light since halfway through high school. But he handled it well. Will the same day weigh ins be too much for him?

On 1/13/2020 at 9:33 AM, spladle08 said:

.....but I also think the increase in real competition will result in closer matches, and people will say: he's cutting too much... instead of: He's wrestling a tougher weight class."
 

I think you can usually tell if the cut is impacting someone. Like how James Green down at 65 was not the same guy. Undoubtedly the competition will be tougher, but I think we will be able to tell if the cut is an issue for either of these guys. Of course, some will deny it, and some will over emphasize it.

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3 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

Personally, I always thought 74 was the ideal weight for Dake, but was forced to go up to make the team. He has filled out 79 really well, so he will have to lose some of the muscle mass to make the cut reasonable, but I don't think it will be a big issue for him. I am worried about J'den's cut if he goes 86 (which I think he is). I didn't think it was reasonable when he first talked about going down in 2016, as he hadn't been that light since halfway through high school. But he handled it well. Will the same day weigh ins be too much for him?

I think you can usually tell if the cut is impacting someone. Like how James Green down at 65 was not the same guy. Undoubtedly the competition will be tougher, but I think we will be able to tell if the cut is an issue for either of these guys. Of course, some will deny it, and some will over emphasize it.

You're too reasonable to be lumped in with my generalities.
:) KD will be 100% though. I always watched his matches from last years world.
He and Chamizo should be a great watch!

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On 1/11/2020 at 8:41 AM, spladle08 said:

Dang I wanted to see that Zare match

Why wrestle Zare and some of the best in the world as an Olympic primer when you can wrestle the person who pinned Zare?

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Why wrestle Zare and some of the best in the world as an Olympic primer when you can wrestle the person who pinned Zare?
While I respect the trolling.
And the firemans...

I gotta roll my eyes at FRL today, when one of them said something like,
"Parris pinned Zare, and look how good Zare is, that's the only reason I think he could beat Gable"....

I'm like hold the phone, do we really have to talk this through... anyway excited for womens and mens FS. Bring on tomorrow

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8 minutes ago, Abdullahgadzhi Khuzin said:

Chamizo misses the tournament and fans in flo wrestling started insult him... 

Correct, here in America, anyone who doesn't wrestle when we want to see a match is a coward and should be banned from the sport.
(I've never shared this mindset, and it only applies to foreign wrestlers, or in college: wrestlers from opposing teams)
#Merica.

*Also note, if the "Ducking" wrestler wins a later match, it is somehow because he "ducked".... its a weird phenomenon

Edited by spladle08

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20 hours ago, Crotalus said:

Personally, I always thought 74 was the ideal weight for Dake, but was forced to go up to make the team. He has filled out 79 really well, so he will have to lose some of the muscle mass to make the cut reasonable, but I don't think it will be a big issue for him. I am worried about J'den's cut if he goes 86 (which I think he is). I didn't think it was reasonable when he first talked about going down in 2016, as he hadn't been that light since halfway through high school. But he handled it well. Will the same day weigh ins be too much for him?

I think you can usually tell if the cut is impacting someone. Like how James Green down at 65 was not the same guy. Undoubtedly the competition will be tougher, but I think we will be able to tell if the cut is an issue for either of these guys. Of course, some will deny it, and some will over emphasize it.

I’m also skeptical about Cox making weight. And even if he does win the spot at 86, can he make the cut at the Olympics and run through the bracket for two days? It’s not like OTT and finalsX or whatever where he gets a bye.

My hypothesis is that his heart wants to go 86 and take on Taylor & Ringer, but his body is saying he needs to go 97 against Snyder & Sadulaev, and he’s still figuring out which one to listen to.

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1 minute ago, spladle08 said:

Correct, here in America, anyone who doesn't wrestle when we want to see a match is a coward and should be banned from the sport.
(I've never shared this mindset, and it only applied to foreign wrestlers, or in college: wrestlers from opposing teams)
#Merica.

*Also note, if the "Ducking" wrestler wins a later match, it is somehow because he "ducked".... its a weird phenomenon

okay if you are injured you are coward, goose, cant deserve to compete anymore, very good "american logical". Very smart nation 

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