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Arizona State at Ohio State - Next Monday on Fox Sports1

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7 minutes ago, Aviator12 said:

The way your post reads, it looks as if the 17-16 score you predicted had Arizona State winning so good guess on the final score but you didn’t pick the end result exactly right. I know, well actually I don’t know... why I just corrected that lol. Carry on.

Foiled again... nothing gets by you.  I was too chicken to say who would win so you sir are right.  

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42 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

The reason I had to order the extra large jockstrap from India was because of India's extensive textile industry, not because of the micropeens comprising the population of India. I'm sure they get lots of orders for jocks from guys in West African Countries as well!

If you say so...

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Moore basically freezes for a full second after a failed shot. No attempt to get back into a defensible position whatsoever. Leaving himself very vulnerable to reshots. And that weird trip he was going for on his failed takedown attempts, well, he should never try that again.

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Moore basically freezes for a full second after a failed shot. No attempt to get back into a defensible position whatsoever. Leaving himself very vulnerable to reshots. And that weird trip he was going for on his failed takedown attempts, well, he should never try that again.
He's gets too wild at times. That's for sure.

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7 hours ago, Greatdane67 said:

I honestly believe Zahid miscalculated the score and thought he had the tech fall. He seemed perplexed looking at the scoreboard after the match. 

After the whistle he looked at the table/Zeke and put two up to indicate 2 more points. So I think that is viable. 

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9 minutes ago, silvermedal said:

Moore will often re-attack from unusual positions.  Norfleet, however, was hip to the game.  

They weren't even re-attacks. That trip he was trying for had him way off balance and he wasn't anywhere near close enough connect on the trip. It was weird.

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1 hour ago, VegasBuckeye said:

I definitely do not think Moore wants face Norfleet again at NCAA's. 

Playing with fire. He is a tough match-up for Moore.

The match was close for a period or so. But honestly at the end it wasn't that close after that. Moore was up by 4 before inexplicably going for a meaningless TD with time running out and having to bail and give up 2 instead. He did the same thing against Zillmer.

Edited by DocBZ

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37 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

They weren't even re-attacks. That trip he was trying for had him way off balance and he wasn't anywhere near close enough connect on the trip. It was weird.

He's probably scored 50+ takedowns in his career off of that same modified trip.  Obviously wasn't well executed here but it's something he goes to from time to time when he's out of ideas.  If he hits it right it's a quick finish which I think is what he was thinking in this match.

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2 hours ago, Idaho said:

After the whistle he looked at the table/Zeke and put two up to indicate 2 more points. So I think that is viable. 

But if he had 2 more points it would’ve already been over and he wouldn’t have had to wait for the RT right?   I thought he was saying he thought he had a pin twice.

Edited by 1032004

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Not sure the weight cut etc. is a valid excuse for Decatur gassing. He has a reputation of taking injury time when in tough matches to catch his breath etc. Also, the weigh in Saturday and Monday was a disadvantage to him, but he better get used to it. Ohio State now has several Friday and Sunday duals coming  up on the schedule. Not sure if burning Decatur’s redshirt was necessary or will make a difference. Only time will tell. But Koontz beat Kramer in at CKLV 7-5 in OT. That is just one match vs common opponent, but not much of an upgrade as of now. 

Edited by bman546
typo

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1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

But if he had 2 more points it would’ve already been over and he wouldn’t have had to wait for the RT right?   I thought he was saying he thought he had a pin twice.

Just watched again with an eye toward what was called when.  If I am right about the signals, the ref calls stalling twice but awards no points.  One stalling at :51 and then again another at :42.  One was with the red armband raised and one was with the green armband raised.  

Maybe Z and Z assumed that two stalling calls made would have to both be against Hoffman and therefore Zahid had another point (reasonable for them to not have even contemplated that Zahid would or could have been called for stalling).  And Zahid's gesture at the whistle doesn't really look like 2 to me but rather pointing with one finger possibly at a scoreboard. 

That they honestly thought Zahid had been awarded one more point would explain both Zahid being so passive about cutting him and getting takedowns (though in my opinion he should have cut with no less than 75 seconds anyway, which would have avoided any involvement of the officials) and Zeke being so apoplectic in the post match argument.  How many times Hoffman SHOULD HAVE been called for stalling would be a judgment call that couldn't possibly merit Jones's behavior.  But calling ZAHID for stalling with one of two stalling calls is bizarre enough that Zeke's anger would make more sense and would provide the answer to the mystery that I alluded to in my posts yesterday.

 

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Decatur does have a history of gassing against top notch guys in high school.  But make no mistake, 132 was a tough cut then for him.  He needs to be at 141.  He has very good technique and is a fantastic athlete.

What hadn’t been mentioned about the meet is J’Den’s awesome version of our National Anthem.

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1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

But if he had 2 more points it would’ve already been over and he wouldn’t have had to wait for the RT right?   I thought he was saying he thought he had a pin twice.

 

22 minutes ago, drag it said:

Just watched again with an eye toward what was called when.  If I am right about the signals, the ref calls stalling twice but awards no points.  One stalling at :51 and then again another at :42.  One was with the red armband raised and one was with the green armband raised.  

Maybe Z and Z assumed that two stalling calls made would have to both be against Hoffman and therefore Zahid had another point (reasonable for them to not have even contemplated that Zahid would or could have been called for stalling).  And Zahid's gesture at the whistle doesn't really look like 2 to me but rather pointing with one finger possibly at a scoreboard. 

That they honestly thought Zahid had been awarded one more point would explain both Zahid being so passive about cutting him and getting takedowns (though in my opinion he should have cut with no less than 75 seconds anyway, which would have avoided any involvement of the officials) and Zeke being so apoplectic in the post match argument.  How many times Hoffman SHOULD HAVE been called for stalling would be a judgment call that couldn't possibly merit Jones's behavior.  But calling ZAHID for stalling with one of two stalling calls is bizarre enough that Zeke's anger would make more sense and would provide the answer to the mystery that I alluded to in my posts yesterday.

 

Out of bounds at :18 he points at scoreboard. Right after whistle looks at coach to indicate 2 points. Not I pinned him twice. 

3221919D-4F34-4F99-83D8-95F4F7524D6F.jpeg

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11 minutes ago, Idaho said:

 

Out of bounds at :18 he points at scoreboard. Right after whistle looks at coach to indicate 2 points. Not I pinned him twice. 

3221919D-4F34-4F99-83D8-95F4F7524D6F.jpeg

Could be saying that they called stalling twice, I've got another point.  Would fit the facts better since he was awarded every two point takedown that he got, he wouldn't have an argument on that.  But they did call stalling twice, just (bizarrely) not twice against his opponent.  

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4 hours ago, Crotalus said:

They weren't even re-attacks. That trip he was trying for had him way off balance and he wasn't anywhere near close enough connect on the trip. It was weird.

It wasn't really a trip. It's an old school arm drag technique and something he's used successfully for years. It was actually one of the first leg attacks I was taught in junior high. He hits it at 2:30 on J'Den Cox in this video if you want to see it used successfully: 

https://www.flowrestling.org/video/5655117-197-lbs-kollin-moore-osu-vs-jden-cox-missouri

Norfleet just reacted really well to it and was clearly prepared for that drag, but taking that attack is just like taking a basic double or single for him. It's a very comfortable attack for him.

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22 minutes ago, drag it said:

Could be saying that they called stalling twice, I've got another point.  Would fit the facts better since he was awarded every two point takedown that he got, he wouldn't have an argument on that.  But they did call stalling twice, just (bizarrely) not twice against his opponent.  

That is possible. When he went out of bounds after the takedown at :18 he pointed at the scoreboard - not sure if it was because he thought he had another stall call point or he thought he had a near fall on the edge. It was hard to tell if he was close to gettin near fall. His body was blocking the camera angle.   Maybe there will be an interview to clear it up. One thing is for sure, Zeke was all over the place behind the mat, questioning many things. 

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41 minutes ago, drag it said:

Could be saying that they called stalling twice, I've got another point.  Would fit the facts better since he was awarded every two point takedown that he got, he wouldn't have an argument on that.  But they did call stalling twice, just (bizarrely) not twice against his opponent.  

Yeah I could believe this was the reason for the “2.”  Only watched it the first time but don’t recall where he thought he could’ve had 2 more points.  And again, if he did it would’ve been over

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It wasn't really a trip. It's an old school arm drag technique and something he's used successfully for years. It was actually one of the first leg attacks I was taught in junior high. He hits it at 2:30 on J'Den Cox in this video if you want to see it used successfully: 
https://www.flowrestling.org/video/5655117-197-lbs-kollin-moore-osu-vs-jden-cox-missouri
Norfleet just reacted really well to it and was clearly prepared for that drag, but taking that attack is just like taking a basic double or single for him. It's a very comfortable attack for him.
Maybe not a trip, but he uses his heel to hook J'den's heel in that video. Regardless, it cost him points against Norfleet. He was way off balance and couldn't defend any reshots. Not a low risk attack against an opponent who could see it coming a mile away.

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21 hours ago, bman546 said:

Not sure the weight cut etc. is a valid excuse for Decatur gassing. He has a reputation of taking injury time when in tough matches to catch his breath etc. Also, the weigh in Saturday and Monday was a disadvantage to him, but he better get used to it. Ohio State now has several Friday and Sunday duals coming  up on the schedule. Not sure if burning Decatur’s redshirt was necessary or will make a difference. Only time will tell. But Koontz beat Kramer in at CKLV 7-5 in OT. That is just one match vs common opponent, but not much of an upgrade as of now. 

Credit to Koontz for having a nice CKLV and catching opponents unaware by using a lot of Greco.  However, over the BT season, Decatur will likely be a much better performer.

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20 hours ago, Sstern said:

Decatur does have a history of gassing against top notch guys in high school.  But make no mistake, 132 was a tough cut then for him.  He needs to be at 141.  He has very good technique and is a fantastic athlete.

 

They better keep developing Koontz if you're correct as the Bucks don't have any stud recruits to go 133...just two undersized 125's in Heinselman and Jacob Decatur.

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6 hours ago, silvermedal said:

Credit to Koontz for having a nice CKLV and catching opponents unaware by using a lot of Greco.  However, over the BT season, Decatur will likely be a much better performer.

Rumor has it, Koontz and the other Koontz were doing nothing but wrestling Greco through mid November, since the other one has an Olympic redshir and was preparing for U23 and other tournaments. The transition to folk style from several months of greco probably takes some time and adjustment. If Koontz had the CKLV he did with only 2-3 weeks to transition, and he beat Kramer by 2 in OT, compared to Decatur winning by two, I wonder at the end of the season who actually develops or is better? Koontz probably isn't having a tough cut seeing as he has already gone up a weight class from where he started. I think any greco guy (a true Greco guy--not an Imar, or a Joe Colon) that can protect his legs, will continue to catch people off guard or put them in positions where they are uncomfortable. Plus, I hope to see a big throw. Styles make matches sometimes too. 

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On 1/6/2020 at 11:55 PM, drag it said:

I just watched the third period again just to question whether I was being too negative.  Umm, no.  

The score was 14-3 with riding time locked when the period began -- 12 point lead; 120 seconds later Valencia had added two points to his lead and won by 14. 

He rode him for 85 seconds before he turned him loose, during which time he wasn't close to getting a turn -- let alone a pin.  Basically it looked like he was mad that the ref wasn't calling stalling, which was not realistic because it wasn't flagrant, it's a judgment call, and he did call it with 45 seconds left; also, what particular benefit would stalling calls have been -- the best he was going to get out of that were more points for a tech fall (not a chance in the world there was was going to be a disqualification), which he could have gotten much more easily by letting his opponent go with 75 or 90 seconds and getting his three takedowns.  

It looked like Jones started calling for Z to turn him loose with over a minute left; it's hard to tell.  While I'm being negative, it was particularly hard to tell what Zeke was saying because Tim Johnson was droning on with some weird and irrelevant ramblings about Valencia's weight and Olympic Trials qualification which made it sound like Johnson didn't understand that the people who run the NCAAs  will require Valencia to make weight if he chooses to compete at their tournament ("they want to get him up to 205 by the end of this year and then cut back down to 189 for the Olympic Trials") or that Valencia already made the OTT by winning a tiny little tournament down in Texas two weeks ago ("he wins the NCAAs, he's qualified").  I don't know, maybe he thinks that because Cassar is hurt, Z should go up to 285 and take on Gable in a big showdown in the Dome? 

The only possibly mitigating circumstance could be that maybe something happened that I couldn't understand; Jones was arguing with the refs after as if there were some kind of black and white scoring or rules issue (rather than a judgment call over stalling).  I doubt it, though -- and, all in all, those 85 seconds were not a great showcase for the folkstyle team score concept.

I've seen several people here - one of whom is you - who made reference to re-watching this dual (ASU vs. Ohio State).  Can you enlighten the rest of us and share WHERE we might watch this dual again?  Thanks

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