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1 hour ago, Perry said:

You are correct, sorry, was thinking of Taylor Massa not Logan. Though Logan has since disappointed compared to what some of us were thinking after looking so solid as a freshman. I wonder if he has had injuries which have kept him back. he still has some nice wins in the last two years including over Marinelli once

After all the chatter on this board I was expecting Logan Massa to win a couple titles. At least one. Nope. 

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2 hours ago, Konquest said:

Most of the guys whom I have made the mistake of overrating with high expectations are dudes who have college physiques in high school, and kind of bully people on their way to "blue chip" status.  There are a few in high school right now that would fit this mold, whom I hope surprise me at the next level.  The guys who I have been flat out wrong about were injury casualties, and it's kind of sad: Hunter Steiber, Bryce Brill, David Kjeldgaard, Sean Hage, Troy Letters, etc.

What did you think Letters would do?  3 time top 3 with a championship is pretty dang good.

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This thread says more about how absolutely brutal college wrestling is, and how insane some of the expectations have been over the years, than anything else, imo.  Take Dustin Schlatter, for example, who we all generally thought was going to win multiple titles:

Freshman year: NCAA title

Sophomore: only lost to Gillespie. 3rd place

Junior: knee injury.  possibly the toughest NCAA bracket of all time, lost to Caldwell and O'Conner (OT) for 7th place

Redshirt: Senior World Team member

Senior: ranked #2 at 165, went down to 157 and blew out knee again.

That is just a ridiculously accomplished career by any sensible measurement. Just shows how rare and insane it is for everything to go right with weights, competition life, injuries, etc.  for anyone coming out of high school to be penciled in for a half decade of elite success

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Alex Meade

The Ashmore twins

Mike Grey (2x AA but I was expecting Nickerson like results)

Andrew Camp

David Craig

Colin Palmer

Peppleman

Dutton (the older brother..I think he was a AA once though)

Thomas Haines

Ian Paddock

Mario Mason

Patrick Bond

Scott Winston

Matt Dragon

Brooks Black

Tim Darling

The Ciasuillis (spelling?)

Corey Jantzen

Villalonga

Mark Grey

CP 

Meeks

Jamal Parks

A guy I was completely wrong about...

Matt McD 

I remember a match between him and Jordan Oliver after their senior years and JO put on a clinic. Completely silences the gym. Haha.

 

 

Edited by Cementmixer103

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I'll stick to current era of Michigan kiddos:

-Gage Hutchinson @ 285.  I always hoped he would do better than he did.  I have a feeling had he gone a different route(division) he would have been a multi-time champ at the tweener weight class(what is it... 220 or 230?).  Never got appropriate size or kept his speed he utilized in HS up that heavy.

-Ben Bennett.  I expected multiple championships from this guy.  He always had it skill-wise, however he never seemed to have that elite athleticism.  Much like Justin Oliver...

-Justin Oliver.  He actually did better in college than I thought he would-I thought he peaked about junior year in HS.

-Any of the St. Johns/Massa Maniac guys.  The only one that gets a mulligan for me is Logan, because he has fought through his injuries.  Jordan Thomas actually beat Gabe Dean decisively(more than once!) their senior year and he did it while he was seriously injurred.  Wohlfert, Taylor Massa(should have focused on wrestling rather than cutting to 165 and he'd have been in that 174lb crop of Storley, Kokesh, Evans, Brown tier), Schmitt, Pennell, Whitford, Hayden, Arthur, Hall etc. SO many elite guys and the only one who has a chance to redeem the squad right now is Logan Massa.

-Adam Coon.  I didn't give enough credit to his sheer mass of frame.  It took him to immediate true-frosh success and I still didn't think he'd put together quite the finish to his career as he did.  He never seemed to have that elite speed or strength at the weight for me.  His frame made it so they were elite, though.

-Kanen and Zehlin Storr.  I expected Zehlin to be about what Kanen has been and I expected Kanen to transcend.  I didn't think Ian Parker(who I had low expectations because of the previous St. Johns crew) would be on the same level and absolutely expected Kanen to be a factor by now.

-Hesperia/Hudson/New Lothrop toons.  Even for small schools these schools pump out so much small-school talent and consistency that I expected much more than what we've gotten.  The Zeerips and Marrys specifically.

-Gabe/Max Dean-As mentioned above, I thought Gabe was about as polished a product as we'd seen coming out of Michigan in a while.  He made a leap his GS season.  I wish we had seen him on the senior level afterwords more.  Max as well.  I saw him as a lesser version of his brother, and truth is they're entirely different wrestlers that have an unstoppable drive and gear for improvement.

-Mason Parris.  After seeing him DESTROY Whitman at 220 then get destroyed by Cassioppi a few months later I was very worried that we had a friggen tweener for our Coonsquad replacement.  Not disappointed thus far.

-Rayvon Foley.  Pleasantly surprised that he could step right in and compete for an AA position as a true frosh.

-A-Hris of MSU.  This kid is a go-getter.  Never says no and will never be outworked by anyone.  I thought he peaked sometime early in HS and despite his drive seemed to have difficulty adjusting up in weight.  As of right now I wouldn't be surprised to see him squeak out an upset or three at NCAAs this year.

-Marten and Simon-Both of these toons at their ideal weights surprised me this year.  I thought they may have been 'damaged goods' due to recent turnover(4 lighter weight AA contenders leaving CMU0 however they're proving me wrong this year.  The entire CMU room seems to have made vast improvements over the last season and I am absolutely thrilled.

-Ben Freeman.  Little brother Nick was not supposed to be bigger or better at this stage in their respective careers.

-Jack Medley.  You just can't help but root for this guy.  Nonstop.

 

Ramblings, I know... but those familiar with Michigan wrestling will relate.

Edited by nhs67
Parris timing...

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5 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

The Altons. Thought both would end up with at least one Natty title and a bunch of AA finishes. 

EDIT: Throw in Peppleman, the one that wrestled at the same time as the Altons. 

Add in Andrew Campollatano. He fizzled. 

I was going to say Marshall Peppelman also.

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Hudson Jump of Grandview, Ohio.  2-time state champ.

 I thought he'd  eventually AA for Ohio State at HWT...especially after Kerkvliet left.  

He left the team before he ever wrestled a match.  Wish he'd come back with commitment.  

I never thought TJ Jaworsky would get his first, let alone 3 titles.  Kudos to a great wrestler.



 

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2 hours ago, Sublime607 said:

I was going to say Marshall Peppelman also.

There was an entire class which looked like they would have multiple titles and medals..  Alton's, Kindig, Peppleman, Hess, Cowburn, Cunningham, evan craig and others(all 2010 Pa class). They all had stellar HS careers.  Always wondered how Peppleman's tilts would work for him in college.. not too well.

Edited by pennsyrules

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4 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I'll stick to current era of Michigan kiddos:

-Ben Bennett.  I expected multiple championships from this guy.  He always had it skill-wise, however he never seemed to have that elite athleticism.  Much like Justin Oliver...

 

I'm surprised to see him on a list here. He was one of my favorite guys to watch while living in Mt. Pleasant, MI. He beat some high-ranked guys at home during his time, and it was never pretty - just strength, guts, and some kinda meanness!

I never met the guy, but from the arena he seemed like a great leader with all the work ethic we could ever admire. 

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1 hour ago, denger said:

I'm surprised to see him on a list here. He was one of my favorite guys to watch while living in Mt. Pleasant, MI. He beat some high-ranked guys at home during his time, and it was never pretty - just strength, guts, and some kinda meanness!

I never met the guy, but from the arena he seemed like a great leader with all the work ethic we could ever admire. 

Please don't take that wrong. I loved the guy and still do.

I expected a title or two from him and he didn't get it.

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17 hours ago, GoNotQuietly said:

This thread says more about how absolutely brutal college wrestling is, and how insane some of the expectations have been over the years, than anything else, imo.  Take Dustin Schlatter, for example, who we all generally thought was going to win multiple titles:

Freshman year: NCAA title

Sophomore: only lost to Gillespie. 3rd place

Junior: knee injury.  possibly the toughest NCAA bracket of all time, lost to Caldwell and O'Conner (OT) for 7th place

Redshirt: Senior World Team member

Senior: ranked #2 at 165, went down to 157 and blew out knee again.

That is just a ridiculously accomplished career by any sensible measurement. Just shows how rare and insane it is for everything to go right with weights, competition life, injuries, etc.  for anyone coming out of high school to be penciled in for a half decade of elite success

Yup. The recent super stars are an anomaly. I pulled the stats last season. It was absurd to have so many guys going for 2 titles over the course of the last 3 years. It is super out of the ordinary. 
  
We keep having TF national champs. Even Gable placing 3rd at hvwt as a true freshman is unheard of. That weight used to be completely dominated by senior classman, for obvious reasons. 
  
Having 2 Olympic medalists still in college is nuts. 
  
having so many world teamers still in college is crazy too. Zain and Fix making world teams in college is crazy, especially Fix during his freshman year, over a world silver!

 

we are in a special time. I hope we can keep it up

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10 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Even Gable placing 3rd at hvwt as a true freshman is unheard of. That weight used to be completely dominated by senior classman, for obvious reasons.  

While impressive, Mocco placed second as a true freshman. 

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(Relatively) Old school: Jacob Newby. He was a couple years ahead of me, and you can't overestimate my opinion of him. I think John Smith thought highly of him too, alluding to him in an early flo. interview when he said that he once had a guy profoundly affected by the death of a rock celebrity (KC) and the kid quit to pursue music.

Same team:

Joe Smith: After his first match with Nolf (it was sorta close), I actually thought that would become a rivalry. That sounds crazy now.

GFeller: Coming out hs, I thought Gfeller was just the lesser part of a packaged deal with Fix. He had the desire, but I wasn't sure if he had the other gifts. I was surprised by his success his redshirt year, pinning Lee and all. So, I changed my mind and thought his desire might put him in 4x AA consideration. But then after the Ashnault match, for whatever reason, the promise has faded. Now it seems he's crispy. Frankly, I hope Hone gets the nod. That's pretty harsh . . So I was wrong twice on the same dude.

Edited by jackwebster

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13 hours ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Cody Gardner (rip) looked like a future ncaa champ but  it never worked out for him 

The sad emoji doesn't seem appropriate. So, I thought I would quote you and say that I agree.

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20 hours ago, Perry said:

You are correct, sorry, was thinking of Taylor Massa not Logan. Though Logan has since disappointed compared to what some of us were thinking after looking so solid as a freshman. I wonder if he has had injuries which have kept him back. he still has some nice wins in the last two years including over Marinelli once

Both Taylor Massa and Jordan Thomas were the cream of their recruiting class.  Massa was a world beater, and Thomas beat Gabe Dean in the MI state finals when they were both seniors. 

Both ended up fizzing out.

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18 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I'll stick to current era of Michigan kiddos:

-Gage Hutchinson @ 285.  I always hoped he would do better than he did.  I have a feeling had he gone a different route(division) he would have been a multi-time champ at the tweener weight class(what is it... 220 or 230?).  Never got appropriate size or kept his speed he utilized in HS up that heavy.

-Ben Bennett.  I expected multiple championships from this guy.  He always had it skill-wise, however he never seemed to have that elite athleticism.  Much like Justin Oliver...

-Justin Oliver.  He actually did better in college than I thought he would-I thought he peaked about junior year in HS.

-Any of the St. Johns/Massa Maniac guys.  The only one that gets a mulligan for me is Logan, because he has fought through his injuries.  Jordan Thomas actually beat Gabe Dean decisively(more than once!) their senior year and he did it while he was seriously injurred.  Wohlfert, Taylor Massa(should have focused on wrestling rather than cutting to 165 and he'd have been in that 174lb crop of Storley, Kokesh, Evans, Brown tier), Schmitt, Pennell, Whitford, Hayden, Arthur, Hall etc. SO many elite guys and the only one who has a chance to redeem the squad right now is Logan Massa.

-Adam Coon.  I didn't give enough credit to his sheer mass of frame.  It took him to immediate true-frosh success and I still didn't think he'd put together quite the finish to his career as he did.  He never seemed to have that elite speed or strength at the weight for me.  His frame made it so they were elite, though.

-Kanen and Zehlin Storr.  I expected Zehlin to be about what Kanen has been and I expected Kanen to transcend.  I didn't think Ian Parker(who I had low expectations because of the previous St. Johns crew) would be on the same level and absolutely expected Kanen to be a factor by now.

-Hesperia/Hudson/New Lothrop toons.  Even for small schools these schools pump out so much small-school talent and consistency that I expected much more than what we've gotten.  The Zeerips and Marrys specifically.

-Gabe/Max Dean-As mentioned above, I thought Gabe was about as polished a product as we'd seen coming out of Michigan in a while.  He made a leap his GS season.  I wish we had seen him on the senior level afterwords more.  Max as well.  I saw him as a lesser version of his brother, and truth is they're entirely different wrestlers that have an unstoppable drive and gear for improvement.

-Mason Parris.  After seeing him DESTROY Whitman at 220 then get destroyed by Cassioppi two weeks later I was very worried that we had a friggen tweener for our Coonsquad replacement.  Not disappointed thus far.

-Rayvon Foley.  Pleasantly surprised that he could step right in and compete for an AA position as a true frosh.

-A-Hris of MSU.  This kid is a go-getter.  Never says no and will never be outworked by anyone.  I thought he peaked sometime early in HS and despite his drive seemed to have difficulty adjusting up in weight.  As of right now I wouldn't be surprised to see him squeak out an upset or three at NCAAs this year.

-Marten and Simon-Both of these toons at their ideal weights surprised me this year.  I thought they may have been 'damaged goods' due to recent turnover(4 lighter weight AA contenders leaving CMU0 however they're proving me wrong this year.  The entire CMU room seems to have made vast improvements over the last season and I am absolutely thrilled.

-Ben Freeman.  Little brother Nick was not supposed to be bigger or better at this stage in their respective careers.

-Jack Medley.  You just can't help but root for this guy.  Nonstop.

 

Ramblings, I know... but those familiar with Michigan wrestling will relate.

Big Jack Medley fan.  Little fanfare, lots of heart--great kid all the way around.

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Mine is definitely Eloheim Palma. I thought he’d end up being one of the most successful wrestlers to come out of North Carolina. His high school accolades were pretty endless. And he was also having national success (won NHSCA high school national championship). He went to NC State and had a decent freshman year but wasn’t as immediately impactful as I thought he’d be. Then he started having injuries, transferred to Campbell, and just never ended up putting anything together. I remember watching that guy when he was in high school though and he was hands down one of the most athletic high school heavyweights I’ve ever seen. 

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2 hours ago, Coach_J said:

A million percent wrong about Spencer Lee.  Thought he was too small coming out of high school and needed to redshirt and when he lost early to Bressman I didn't see him winning the NCAA title that year.  Couldn't have been more wrong.

I think you mean Bresser.

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