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MFS PanAm Qualifier Selection Procedures

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Haven't seen this posted yet, put USA Wrestling put the MFS selection procedures for the Pan Am OG Qualifier on their website.  Seems to give Taylor first priority at 86kg, then Downey, then Cox.

Listed in rank order:

1. Previous World Champion from 2017 or 2018 competing at the same Olympic weight class in which they won their World Championship.

2. 2019 World Team Member at the same Olympic weight class in which they competed at during the 2019 World Championships.

3. World medalist from 2017, 2018 or 2019 at any weight class.*

4. 2019 World Team Member from a non-Olympic weight class.*

5. If the team can NOT be filled following ranked items 1-4, selections will be recommended by the Men’s Freestyle National Team coaching staff to the Men’s Freestyle Sport Committee for final approval.*

          a. The selections will be made based off results during Fall 2019 & Winter 2020 competitions.

          b. Competitive readiness will also be taken into consideration.

*If there are multiple people coming into the Olympic weight that meet the stated criteria; wrestle-offs will be scheduled accordingly prior to the event.

Selection Procedures were also posted for MFS for the Pan Am Championships which are basically the same.

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Interesting. Is this the first we've seen of the previous world champ from '17 or '18 being the #1 criteria? Seems like this could have been put in specifically to get Taylor over PDIII.

But I'm all for it if it means Taylor and J'den wind up on opposite sides of the bracket at OTTs (if J'den goes down, of course).

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49 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

Interesting. Is this the first we've seen of the previous world champ from '17 or '18 being the #1 criteria? Seems like this could have been put in specifically to get Taylor over PDIII.

But I'm all for it if it means Taylor and J'den wind up on opposite sides of the bracket at OTTs (if J'den goes down, of course).

Not allowed to enter an athlete if your country had the ‘19 world champ. Already qualified for the Olympics. 

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1 minute ago, Lurker said:

Not allowed to enter an athlete if your country had the ‘19 world champ. Already qualified for the Olympics. 

Yes, but at least early speculation was that PDIII would be the rep at the qualifier because he was the '19 world team member.

Everyone was concerned about this for two reasons. 1)If PDIII qualified, then he would get the 1 seed at OTT and Taylor and J'den would most likely be on the same side of the bracket. Or 2) If he didn't qualify, we'd only have one more chance to do so.

This is the first time I've seen the '17/'18 champ being listed as a criteria. If it is new, it seems like it could have been put in place specifically so we could send DT to the qualifier. If it is not new, then all the worry was for naught.

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2 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

Yes, but at least early speculation was that PDIII would be the rep at the qualifier because he was the '19 world team member.

Everyone was concerned about this for two reasons. 1)If PDIII qualified, then he would get the 1 seed at OTT and Taylor and J'den would most likely be on the same side of the bracket. Or 2) If he didn't qualify, we'd only have one more chance to do so.

This is the first time I've seen the '17/'18 champ being listed as a criteria. If it is new, it seems like it could have been put in place specifically so we could send DT to the qualifier. If it is not new, then all the worry was for naught.

If it was done for that purpose, and I’m not going to pretend to know either way, then I can’t disagree with that. We gotta get the weight qualified. 

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1 minute ago, Lurker said:

If it was done for that purpose, and I’m not going to pretend to know either way, then I can’t disagree with that. We gotta get the weight qualified. 

Absolutely. Taylor is the right choice to send if he is healthy enough to go (which I'm sure he is by now). But it wasn't clear that USAW had a justification to send him over PDIII when this was being debated on the forum a while back. This criteria gives them that justification. So I'd love to know if it is new, or was just overlooked.

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Could it be that we did not have a world champ at an Olympic weight in '19 but we did in '17(74/97) and '18(86)?  Rather than speculate the world is out to get BlueDragon's son, we could look at legitimate claims to having world champs represented as a priority.

Edited by nhs67
Oops

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10 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Could it be that we did not have a world champ at an Olympic weight in '19 but we did in '17(74/97) and '18(86)?  Rather than speculate the world is out to get BlueDragon's son, we could look at legitimate claims to having world champs represented as a priority.

I think that's what we're doing? (Outside of Blue Draggon)

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Top priority is to get the weight qualified and sorry PD3 it's just business. I've been clamoring for a while that DT should go anyways and have to make weight back to back for Pan Ams and OTT after his late scratch decision last year. This will get him nice and fresh for the real tournament.

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2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Could it be that we did not have a world champ at an Olympic weight in '19 but we did in '17(74/97) and '18(86)?  Rather than speculate the world is out to get BlueDragon's son, we could look at legitimate claims to having world champs represented as a priority.

Would be a stronger argument if those prior world champions weren't also the reps in 2019, thus would be first in priority to be the PAOQ rep if they hadn't medaled last year.  Procedures were only published recently, but are dated November 27, 2019.  They would have known in November that criteria #1 wouldn't have any bearing on 74/97 but would on 86.

Couldn't find any published criteria for the 2016 PAOQ but it was all 2015 world team members except for Tervel since Rey wrestled at 2015 Worlds.  Of course Tervel had won 2015 WTT and got injured before Worlds so not exactly apples to apples. 

I'll take the best chance at qualifying the weight over being entirely fair.

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1 hour ago, Crash said:

This is a case of USAW being too regimented. Should be coach's decision. Whoever gives us the best shot in his opinion ought to go.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 

I like the objectivity of published criteria. I agree that a coach should have a decent idea, but opening the door to politics in team selection is a slipper slope I’d rather avoid. Also, at some weights, e.g. DT or PD3, the “right” choice is much more obvious than at others, e.g. Zain or JO or even Yianni. So a coach may not always know who’s best. It’s hard to argue that the criteria don’t make sense objectively. The issue is the timing of the announcement more than the fairness of the criteria. 

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On 1/17/2020 at 2:33 PM, Crotalus said:

Yes, but at least early speculation was that PDIII would be the rep at the qualifier because he was the '19 world team member.

Everyone was concerned about this for two reasons. 1)If PDIII qualified, then he would get the 1 seed at OTT and Taylor and J'den would most likely be on the same side of the bracket. Or 2) If he didn't qualify, we'd only have one more chance to do so.

This is the first time I've seen the '17/'18 champ being listed as a criteria. If it is new, it seems like it could have been put in place specifically so we could send DT to the qualifier. If it is not new, then all the worry was for naught.

PD3 would have been damned if he won and damned if he didn't.  For one, I'm glad they changed the rules to suit Taylor. Now, go get it done Magic Man. 

Edited by Blue Dragons

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On 1/17/2020 at 7:43 PM, wrestlingnerd said:

I like the objectivity of published criteria. I agree that a coach should have a decent idea, but opening the door to politics in team selection is a slipper slope I’d rather avoid. Also, at some weights, e.g. DT or PD3, the “right” choice is much more obvious than at others, e.g. Zain or JO or even Yianni. So a coach may not always know who’s best. It’s hard to argue that the criteria don’t make sense objectively. The issue is the timing of the announcement more than the fairness of the criteria. 

I agree. Also add in the fact that performance at Pan Ams could influence seeding at OTTs, you want your selection criteria to be as objective as possible.

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3 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

The mini tournaments they had on Saturday was a perfect way to decide for the questionable women’s weights. Why not do the same for the men. At 86 they could have had Taylor, Cox, Zahid, and throw a bone to PDIII for being last years rep. Same for the other unqualified weights. 

Dieringer also.

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3 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

The mini tournaments they had on Saturday was a perfect way to decide for the questionable women’s weights. Why not do the same for the men. At 86 they could have had Taylor, Cox, Zahid, and throw a bone to PDIII for being last years rep. Same for the other unqualified weights. 

This would be an awesome sneak peak for trials, too. However, I still think some guys may consider repping for Pan Ams as “punishment” (or not enough reward for the risk) due to its proximity to OTTs. I wish USA Wrestling could have scheduled trials a little further out - there’s about a month between trials and the final qualifier, which may not even be a factor if the team felt like could go to Ottawa, qualify their weights, and recover in time. But it is what it is.

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As a fan now, I would love to see a mini tournament to decide the team.

As a competitor, I would have hated it. More travel, lost training time, additional injury risk, etc.  Our national championships and world team trials are more than adequate for USAW to pick teams for events other than worlds or Olympics. 

Most wrestlers get sick of endless qualifiers. In this case, our competitors at Pan Ams are effectively doing everyone else a favor by attempting to qualiify the weight. Especially being so close to the Olympic team trials.

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8 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

The mini tournaments they had on Saturday was a perfect way to decide for the questionable women’s weights. Why not do the same for the men. At 86 they could have had Taylor, Cox, Zahid, and throw a bone to PDIII for being last years rep. Same for the other unqualified weights. 

Yeah, throw him a bone. :)

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