FlyinLion 19 Report post Posted January 17, 2020 Haven't seen this posted yet, put USA Wrestling put the MFS selection procedures for the Pan Am OG Qualifier on their website. Seems to give Taylor first priority at 86kg, then Downey, then Cox. Listed in rank order: 1. Previous World Champion from 2017 or 2018 competing at the same Olympic weight class in which they won their World Championship. 2. 2019 World Team Member at the same Olympic weight class in which they competed at during the 2019 World Championships. 3. World medalist from 2017, 2018 or 2019 at any weight class.* 4. 2019 World Team Member from a non-Olympic weight class.* 5. If the team can NOT be filled following ranked items 1-4, selections will be recommended by the Men’s Freestyle National Team coaching staff to the Men’s Freestyle Sport Committee for final approval.* a. The selections will be made based off results during Fall 2019 & Winter 2020 competitions. b. Competitive readiness will also be taken into consideration. *If there are multiple people coming into the Olympic weight that meet the stated criteria; wrestle-offs will be scheduled accordingly prior to the event. Selection Procedures were also posted for MFS for the Pan Am Championships which are basically the same. 1 jon reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lurker 1,397 Report post Posted January 17, 2020 So it'll be 57-fix 65-zain 86-taylor 125-Gwiz Assuming they all accept Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crotalus 411 Report post Posted January 17, 2020 Interesting. Is this the first we've seen of the previous world champ from '17 or '18 being the #1 criteria? Seems like this could have been put in specifically to get Taylor over PDIII. But I'm all for it if it means Taylor and J'den wind up on opposite sides of the bracket at OTTs (if J'den goes down, of course). 2 Jon_Kozak and spladle08 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lurker 1,397 Report post Posted January 17, 2020 49 minutes ago, Crotalus said: Interesting. Is this the first we've seen of the previous world champ from '17 or '18 being the #1 criteria? Seems like this could have been put in specifically to get Taylor over PDIII. But I'm all for it if it means Taylor and J'den wind up on opposite sides of the bracket at OTTs (if J'den goes down, of course). Not allowed to enter an athlete if your country had the ‘19 world champ. Already qualified for the Olympics. 1 nom reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crotalus 411 Report post Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Lurker said: Not allowed to enter an athlete if your country had the ‘19 world champ. Already qualified for the Olympics. Yes, but at least early speculation was that PDIII would be the rep at the qualifier because he was the '19 world team member. Everyone was concerned about this for two reasons. 1)If PDIII qualified, then he would get the 1 seed at OTT and Taylor and J'den would most likely be on the same side of the bracket. Or 2) If he didn't qualify, we'd only have one more chance to do so. This is the first time I've seen the '17/'18 champ being listed as a criteria. If it is new, it seems like it could have been put in place specifically so we could send DT to the qualifier. If it is not new, then all the worry was for naught. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lurker 1,397 Report post Posted January 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Crotalus said: Yes, but at least early speculation was that PDIII would be the rep at the qualifier because he was the '19 world team member. Everyone was concerned about this for two reasons. 1)If PDIII qualified, then he would get the 1 seed at OTT and Taylor and J'den would most likely be on the same side of the bracket. Or 2) If he didn't qualify, we'd only have one more chance to do so. This is the first time I've seen the '17/'18 champ being listed as a criteria. If it is new, it seems like it could have been put in place specifically so we could send DT to the qualifier. If it is not new, then all the worry was for naught. If it was done for that purpose, and I’m not going to pretend to know either way, then I can’t disagree with that. We gotta get the weight qualified. 2 Gantry and bnwtwg reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crotalus 411 Report post Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Lurker said: If it was done for that purpose, and I’m not going to pretend to know either way, then I can’t disagree with that. We gotta get the weight qualified. Absolutely. Taylor is the right choice to send if he is healthy enough to go (which I'm sure he is by now). But it wasn't clear that USAW had a justification to send him over PDIII when this was being debated on the forum a while back. This criteria gives them that justification. So I'd love to know if it is new, or was just overlooked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ugarte 325 Report post Posted January 17, 2020 Guys in a room trying to figure it out "what if we say last name is six letters?" "No, Taylor and Downey both have six letters." "Damn. OK. Still thinking." 5 bnwtwg, jon, AHamilton and 2 others reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nhs67 1,054 Report post Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) Could it be that we did not have a world champ at an Olympic weight in '19 but we did in '17(74/97) and '18(86)? Rather than speculate the world is out to get BlueDragon's son, we could look at legitimate claims to having world champs represented as a priority. Edited January 17, 2020 by nhs67 Oops 2 jon and Coach_J reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lurker 1,397 Report post Posted January 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, nhs67 said: Could it be that we did not have a world champ at an Olympic weight in '19 but we did in '17(74/97) and '18(86)? Rather than speculate the world is out to get BlueDragon's son, we could look at legitimate claims to having world champs represented as a priority. I think that's what we're doing? (Outside of Blue Draggon) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nhs67 1,054 Report post Posted January 17, 2020 22 minutes ago, Lurker said: I think that's what we're doing? (Outside of Blue Draggon) Being preemptive here. :P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lurker 1,397 Report post Posted January 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, nhs67 said: Being preemptive here. :P Ahhhhhh gotcha Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bnwtwg 479 Report post Posted January 17, 2020 Top priority is to get the weight qualified and sorry PD3 it's just business. I've been clamoring for a while that DT should go anyways and have to make weight back to back for Pan Ams and OTT after his late scratch decision last year. This will get him nice and fresh for the real tournament. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrestlingphish 643 Report post Posted January 17, 2020 I wonder if these recently revealed procedures are what prompted this Downey tweet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyinLion 19 Report post Posted January 17, 2020 2 hours ago, nhs67 said: Could it be that we did not have a world champ at an Olympic weight in '19 but we did in '17(74/97) and '18(86)? Rather than speculate the world is out to get BlueDragon's son, we could look at legitimate claims to having world champs represented as a priority. Would be a stronger argument if those prior world champions weren't also the reps in 2019, thus would be first in priority to be the PAOQ rep if they hadn't medaled last year. Procedures were only published recently, but are dated November 27, 2019. They would have known in November that criteria #1 wouldn't have any bearing on 74/97 but would on 86. Couldn't find any published criteria for the 2016 PAOQ but it was all 2015 world team members except for Tervel since Rey wrestled at 2015 Worlds. Of course Tervel had won 2015 WTT and got injured before Worlds so not exactly apples to apples. I'll take the best chance at qualifying the weight over being entirely fair. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crash 138 Report post Posted January 17, 2020 This is a case of USAW being too regimented. Should be coach's decision. Whoever gives us the best shot in his opinion ought to go.Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wrestlingnerd 2,593 Report post Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Crash said: This is a case of USAW being too regimented. Should be coach's decision. Whoever gives us the best shot in his opinion ought to go. Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk I like the objectivity of published criteria. I agree that a coach should have a decent idea, but opening the door to politics in team selection is a slipper slope I’d rather avoid. Also, at some weights, e.g. DT or PD3, the “right” choice is much more obvious than at others, e.g. Zain or JO or even Yianni. So a coach may not always know who’s best. It’s hard to argue that the criteria don’t make sense objectively. The issue is the timing of the announcement more than the fairness of the criteria. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blue Dragons 46 Report post Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) On 1/17/2020 at 2:33 PM, Crotalus said: Yes, but at least early speculation was that PDIII would be the rep at the qualifier because he was the '19 world team member. Everyone was concerned about this for two reasons. 1)If PDIII qualified, then he would get the 1 seed at OTT and Taylor and J'den would most likely be on the same side of the bracket. Or 2) If he didn't qualify, we'd only have one more chance to do so. This is the first time I've seen the '17/'18 champ being listed as a criteria. If it is new, it seems like it could have been put in place specifically so we could send DT to the qualifier. If it is not new, then all the worry was for naught. PD3 would have been damned if he won and damned if he didn't. For one, I'm glad they changed the rules to suit Taylor. Now, go get it done Magic Man. Edited February 9, 2020 by Blue Dragons 1 2td3nf reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ogalthorpe Haywood 322 Report post Posted February 10, 2020 The mini tournaments they had on Saturday was a perfect way to decide for the questionable women’s weights. Why not do the same for the men. At 86 they could have had Taylor, Cox, Zahid, and throw a bone to PDIII for being last years rep. Same for the other unqualified weights. 2 cjc007 and pamela reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crotalus 411 Report post Posted February 10, 2020 On 1/17/2020 at 7:43 PM, wrestlingnerd said: I like the objectivity of published criteria. I agree that a coach should have a decent idea, but opening the door to politics in team selection is a slipper slope I’d rather avoid. Also, at some weights, e.g. DT or PD3, the “right” choice is much more obvious than at others, e.g. Zain or JO or even Yianni. So a coach may not always know who’s best. It’s hard to argue that the criteria don’t make sense objectively. The issue is the timing of the announcement more than the fairness of the criteria. I agree. Also add in the fact that performance at Pan Ams could influence seeding at OTTs, you want your selection criteria to be as objective as possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mokoma 272 Report post Posted February 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said: The mini tournaments they had on Saturday was a perfect way to decide for the questionable women’s weights. Why not do the same for the men. At 86 they could have had Taylor, Cox, Zahid, and throw a bone to PDIII for being last years rep. Same for the other unqualified weights. Dieringer also. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pamela 1,334 Report post Posted February 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said: The mini tournaments they had on Saturday was a perfect way to decide for the questionable women’s weights. Why not do the same for the men. At 86 they could have had Taylor, Cox, Zahid, and throw a bone to PDIII for being last years rep. Same for the other unqualified weights. This would be an awesome sneak peak for trials, too. However, I still think some guys may consider repping for Pan Ams as “punishment” (or not enough reward for the risk) due to its proximity to OTTs. I wish USA Wrestling could have scheduled trials a little further out - there’s about a month between trials and the final qualifier, which may not even be a factor if the team felt like could go to Ottawa, qualify their weights, and recover in time. But it is what it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ogalthorpe Haywood 322 Report post Posted February 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Mokoma said: Dieringer also. Well if they would keep adding names it wouldn’t be a mini tournament anymore. I limited it to 4 to follow the structure of the women this past weekend. Even though they had 3 at most. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
77again 104 Report post Posted February 10, 2020 As a fan now, I would love to see a mini tournament to decide the team. As a competitor, I would have hated it. More travel, lost training time, additional injury risk, etc. Our national championships and world team trials are more than adequate for USAW to pick teams for events other than worlds or Olympics. Most wrestlers get sick of endless qualifiers. In this case, our competitors at Pan Ams are effectively doing everyone else a favor by attempting to qualiify the weight. Especially being so close to the Olympic team trials. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blue Dragons 46 Report post Posted February 10, 2020 8 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said: The mini tournaments they had on Saturday was a perfect way to decide for the questionable women’s weights. Why not do the same for the men. At 86 they could have had Taylor, Cox, Zahid, and throw a bone to PDIII for being last years rep. Same for the other unqualified weights. Yeah, throw him a bone. :) UWW World Rankings. 01 YAZDANICHARATI Hassan Aliazam 60 PTS IRI 02 PUNIA Deepak 40 PTS IND 03 DOWNEY III James Patrick 26 PTS USA 04 NAIFONOV Artur 25 PTS RUS 05 REICHMUTH Stefan 25 PTS SUI 06 AMINE Myles Nazem 20 PTS SMR 07 IZQUIERDO MENDEZ Carlos Arturo 20 PTS COL 08 ELMOATAMADAWI Khaled Masoud Ismail 20 PTS EGY 09 DUDAROV Ahmed Ruslanovic 18 PTS | PREVIOUS RANK 8 GER 10 MANITRA RAHARISON Roman 18 PTS MAD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites