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Matteo Pelicone Rome -- Saturday Thread

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Zain's record of getting bad draws is about the same as Dake's fantasy record vs Taylor. 
In reality it's closer to Dake's actual record against Taylor. And while Bajrang is very tough, it's the kind of guy he's going to have to beat to win a medal.

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8 minutes ago, pa in taiwan said:

That's unfortunate. It's also not really accurate, as there are a lot of quality US guys that don't club, J'den, Nickal, Yanni, Snyder

So what-- clubbing is allowed.  What's wrong with doing it?

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4 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

In reality it's closer to Dake's actual record against Taylor. And while Bajrang is very tough, it's the kind of guy he's going to have to beat to win a medal.

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Absolutely he has to eventually beat a Bajrang. His draws have still sucked bad. Hard to get much International experience when you continually draw guys ranked right near the very top of the World rankings and lose a close match and then that's it. Thankfully Bajrang got to the finals and pulled him back in and he gets more matches, but even so he drew an American anyway. 

He did wrestle well against McKenna. Dominated him. I would have preferred an International wrestler. I guess no more matches until Noon ET.

Edited by TBar1977

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Stock up today/Got Better 

Joe Colon

Jordan Oliver

Zahid Valencia

Patrick Downey

 

Stock same

Thomas Gilman.

Alex Dieringer

Joey McKenna

 

Stock Down/I was hoping for more...same story.

Zain Retherford 

Daton Fix

Kyle Dake

 

Edited by matts1w

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Absolutely he has to eventually beat a Bajrang. His draws have still sucked bad. Hard to get much International experience when you continually draw guys ranked right near the very top of the World rankings and lose a close match and then that's it. Thankfully Bajrang got to the finals and pulled him back in and he gets more matches, but even so he drew an American anyway. 
He did wrestle well against McKenna. Dominated him. I would have preferred an International wrestler. I guess no more matches until Noon ET.
I'd rather him draw Bajrang first round than an American like we usually do. Now in the Olympics I'd love a cake walk draw, but at 65 kg, that's just not going to happen. He's going to have to get used to it. Taylor had a ****ty draw in 2018, and he won the world championship.

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I've not seen his matches but Dake's results so far don't sound out of the ordinary for him.  He's always had those really well managed low scoring matches that appear as though he just wants to get through it with a win.  Having said that, I don't doubt that cutting down a bit takes away some of the explosiveness that made his 79kg matches so fun and high scoring.  

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1 minute ago, matts1w said:

Stock up today:

Joe Colon

Jordan Oliver

Zahid Valencia

Patrick Downey

 

Stock same:

Thomas Gilman.

Alex Dieringer

Joey McKenna

 

Stock Down:

Zain Retherford 

Daton Fix

Some of these I agree with, like Valencia beating Faith Erdin causes Zahid's stock to go up. It was beating Erdin specifically that causes that. 

How good were the guys Downey beat? 

Also, how did Fix and Zain losing 1 pt matches to former World Silvers cause their stock to drop? Especially considering Zain came back and dominated McKenna? I don't agree on your stock evaluation on either Fix or Zain. 

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3 minutes ago, misterc said:

I've not seen his matches but Dake's results so far don't sound out of the ordinary for him.  He's always had those really well managed low scoring matches that appear as though he just wants to get through it with a win.  Having said that, I don't doubt that cutting down a bit takes away some of the explosiveness that made his 79kg matches so fun and high scoring.  

I haven't  seen them either. But isn't it the case that the first matches at new, lower weight are the hardest? Won't he be better as he gets used to the cut?

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1 minute ago, misterc said:

I've not seen his matches but Dake's results so far don't sound out of the ordinary for him.  He's always had those really well managed low scoring matches that appear as though he just wants to get through it with a win.  Having said that, I don't doubt that cutting down a bit takes away some of the explosiveness that made his 79kg matches so fun and high scoring.  

He didn’t look too different than he did in the tune-up tournament before his Final X wrestle-off with Ringer. Clearly not in peak shape. More tentative than optimal, which is not surprising given it’s his first time down to 74 in a few years and he’s not in peak condition. Still hard as shy to score on. He had some nice moments even when just getting pushouts. I am not at all concerned. 

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2 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

I am amazed that Colon can be competitive at 57 with 2-hour weigh-ins. Like the cut doesn’t faze him. He probably has the toughest cut of anyone in America. 

Agreed.  You couldn't tell by the way he wrestled. A bit impressed and surprised...

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3 minutes ago, NJDan said:

I haven't  seen them either. But isn't it the case that the first matches at new, lower weight are the hardest? Won't he be better as he gets used to the cut?

I think so too, especially with the resources that these guys have to help them continue to manage weight.  No cause for concern here except if you're a JB fan :*(

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I don’t agree with guys making a big deal about Dake having close matches. I’m sure the cut is a factor and he’s not peaking for this tournament. He’s been know to conserve energy and I think that’s what he was doing. I don’t like it but we all know that’s Dake. He scored when he needed, his defense was still top notch, and he didn’t look too gassed. I’d say that’s a good first showing at 74. I’m sure he will be in top form for OTT. That said... Go Burroughs!

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11 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

I don’t agree with guys making a big deal about Dake having close matches. I’m sure the cut is a factor and he’s not peaking for this tournament. He’s been know to conserve energy and I think that’s what he was doing. I don’t like it but we all know that’s Dake. He scored when he needed, his defense was still top notch, and he didn’t look too gassed. I’d say that’s a good first showing at 74. I’m sure he will be in top form for OTT. That said... Go Burroughs!

Of all the tragedies caused by 6 weights, having to leave Dake or Burroughs home is the worst.  They both belong on a box of Wheaties,

 

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Just got a chance to watch gilman/fix and agree with some that gilman should have been put on the shot clock in the 2nd period as he did literally nothing. That said, even if fix scores 1 there he still loses on criteria so it really is irrelevant at the end of the day. Disappointed that gilman did so little but I am guessing that will be the mentality going forward especially after his last loss to fix on being too offensive when he didn't need to be.

 

Zain is Zain, he beats domestic talent but consistently loses on the world stage. Really hope he does not end up as our rep again to go 0 and 1 at the world championships.

 

Dake is dake, people seem to rely on one world championship when it comes to predicting his performance. He has always been comfortable winning a 1 or 2 point match so no real surprise to me there. I do think chamizo would have beaten this version of dake but that is usually how dake's fantasy matches go..

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35 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Some of these I agree with, like Valencia beating Faith Erdin causes Zahid's stock to go up. It was beating Erdin specifically that causes that. 

How good were the guys Downey beat? 

Also, how did Fix and Zain losing 1 pt matches to former World Silvers cause their stock to drop? Especially considering Zain came back and dominated McKenna? I don't agree on your stock evaluation on either Fix or Zain. 

Maybe I should say my excitement levels about these wrestlers went down...

I was really hoping Daton was gonna show up transcended to another level.  He didnt.  I'm bummed.  

Same with Zain.    

Downey got better.  He avenged a loss.  He is better than he was a year ago.  He acts better than he did a year ago.  I will always give props to anyone who gets better.  

 

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7 minutes ago, Perry said:

Just got a chance to watch gilman/fix and agree with some that gilman should have been put on the shot clock in the 2nd period as he did literally nothing. That said, even if fix scores 1 there he still loses on criteria so it really is irrelevant at the end of the day. Disappointed that gilman did so little but I am guessing that will be the mentality going forward especially after his last loss to fix on being too offensive when he didn't need to be.

 

Zain is Zain, he beats domestic talent but consistently loses on the world stage. Really hope he does not end up as our rep again to go 0 and 1 at the world championships.

 

Dake is dake, people seem to rely on one world championship when it comes to predicting his performance. He has always been comfortable winning a 1 or 2 point match so no real surprise to me there. I do think chamizo would have beaten this version of dake but that is usually how dake's fantasy matches go..

Why is everybody denouncing Gilman? Didn't Fix do even less?

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7 minutes ago, matts1w said:

Maybe I should say my excitement levels about these wrestlers went down...

I was really hoping Daton was gonna show up transcended to another level.  He didnt.  I'm bummed.  

Same with Zain.    

Downey got better.  He avenged a loss.  He is better than he was a year ago.  He acts better than he did a year ago.  I will always give props to anyone who gets better.  

 

I can give you props on Downey avenging that 8-7 loss at Dogu, and he beats Ethan Ramos and does act better and look better. At the end of the day, though, he's never again our rep on the world stage. Too many better Americans. 

My broader disagreement was on Fix, Zain and McKenna. Joey beat the 13th place finish at Euro Championships then lost consecutive matches to Bajrang and Zain, the loss to Zain he is basically dominated. Fix losing to Gilman by 2-1, even if the excitement level is down, looks the same as his matches with Gilman last year to make the World team. Zain still lost, but again to a top guy and by a close margin. He's not there, but he is also never totally out of a match. It wouldn't take much for him to get over the last hurdle. Not giving up on him if he wins the spot later this year. 

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9 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

I can give you props on Downey avenging that 8-7 loss at Dogu, and he beats Ethan Ramos and does act better and look better. At the end of the day, though, he's never again our rep on the world stage. Too many better Americans. 

My broader disagreement was on Fix, Zain and McKenna. Joey beat the 13th place finish at Euro Championships then lost consecutive matches to Bajrang and Zain, the loss to Zain he is basically dominated. Fix losing to Gilman by 2-1, even if the excitement level is down, looks the same as his matches with Gilman last year to make the World team. Zain still lost, but again to a top guy and by a close margin. He's not there, but he is also never totally out of a match. It wouldn't take much for him to get over the last hurdle. Not giving up on him if he wins the spot later this year. 

I wouldn't say Zain dominated McKenna, McKenna was winning with 2:15 left in the match.  He tried a desperation throw at the end and match score was lopsided at that point.  

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Dake hasn't given up an offensive point either. I just watched his quarterfinal. The Hungarian basically never attempted to score. Dake shot off the whistle with 2 seconds left to get the tech (and maybe embarrass the guy). Seemed to have pretty good energy to me, even if he was basically unchallenged.

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3 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Dake hasn't given up an offensive point either. I just watched his quarterfinal. The Hungarian basically never attempted to score. Dake shot off the whistle with 2 seconds left to get the tech (and maybe embarrass the guy). Seemed to have pretty good energy to me, even if he was basically unchallenged.

His final with Dermtas should be a good point of evaluation. 

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16 minutes ago, jeffrideal said:

I wouldn't say Zain dominated McKenna, McKenna was winning with 2:15 left in the match.  He tried a desperation throw at the end and match score was lopsided at that point.  

Zane had 12 unanswered pts,the last 4 were sloppy,but Zane gassed him and dominated the last 3 mins. Hard to call stock down on Zane but stock up on Joey?

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