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Stanford burns THREE redshirts to beat Cal Poly last night

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Have to wonder why so many of Stanford's starters didn't compete last night but the fact is three of Stanford's true freshmen - apparently - burned their redshirts last night in order to beat Cal Poly 22-13.

Stanford did not have # 10 (WrestleStat) ranked Real Woods (141 lbs) or # 17 (WrestleStat) Requir van der Merwe (149 lbs) or # 11 (WrestleStat) Nathan Traxler (197 lbs) - as well as Gabe Townsell at 125 lbs in their lineup yesterday.  Instead Stanford inserted THREE true freshmen into the lineup last night - going with Luciano Arroyo at 141 lbs  (who lost in SV OT to Wyatt Cornelison and Dawson Sihavong at 149 lbs (he lost 3-1 to Joshy Cortez) and Seamus O'Malley at 197 lbs (He's listed as a heavyweight) who lost 4-2 to # 12 ranked Thomas Lane.

https://gostanford.com/news/2020/1/17/wrestling-card-wins-pac-12-opener.aspx

Stanford (22) at Cal Poly (13):
174 -- Jared Hill (S) dec. Nathan Tausch (CP) 8-5
184 -- Trent Tracy (CP) maj. dec. Nick Addison (S) 8-0
197 -- Tom Lane (CP) dec. Seamus O'Malley (S) 4-2
285 -- Haydn Maley (S) maj. dec. Samuel Aguilar (CP) 10-2
125 -- Jackson DiSario (S) tech. fall Benny Martinez (CP) 15-0, 7:00
133 -- Brandon Kier (S) dec. Trae Vasquez (CP) 5-1
141 -- Wyatt Cornelison (CP) dec. Luciano Arroyo (S) 5-3 SV
149 -- Joshy Cortez (CP) dec. Dawson Sihavong (S) 3-1
157 -- Tyler Eischens (S) dec. Brawley Lamer (CP) 7-1
165 -- Shane Griffith (S) maj. dec. Bernie Truax (CP) 16-2

 

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The coach must've felt the youngsters could use a little seasoning. And yet, despite starting 3 youngsters the Cardinal got the win. Nice. That's how it should be done. Get your young guys valuable experience, give the studs a night off to enjoy the match, and let the fans get acquainted with the new faces. I like it.

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2 hours ago, Bronco said:

Have to wonder why so many of Stanford's starters didn't compete last night but the fact is three of Stanford's true freshmen - apparently - burned their redshirts last night in order to beat Cal Poly 22-13.

Stanford did not have # 10 (WrestleStat) ranked Real Woods (141 lbs) or # 17 (WrestleStat) Requir van der Merwe (149 lbs) or # 11 (WrestleStat) Nathan Traxler (197 lbs) - as well as Gabe Townsell at 125 lbs in their lineup yesterday.  Instead Stanford inserted THREE true freshmen into the lineup last night - going with Luciano Arroyo at 141 lbs  (who lost in SV OT to Wyatt Cornelison and Dawson Sihavong at 149 lbs (he lost 3-1 to Joshy Cortez) and Seamus O'Malley at 197 lbs (He's listed as a heavyweight) who lost 4-2 to # 12 ranked Thomas Lane.

https://gostanford.com/news/2020/1/17/wrestling-card-wins-pac-12-opener.aspx

Stanford (22) at Cal Poly (13):
174 -- Jared Hill (S) dec. Nathan Tausch (CP) 8-5
184 -- Trent Tracy (CP) maj. dec. Nick Addison (S) 8-0
197 -- Tom Lane (CP) dec. Seamus O'Malley (S) 4-2
285 -- Haydn Maley (S) maj. dec. Samuel Aguilar (CP) 10-2
125 -- Jackson DiSario (S) tech. fall Benny Martinez (CP) 15-0, 7:00
133 -- Brandon Kier (S) dec. Trae Vasquez (CP) 5-1
141 -- Wyatt Cornelison (CP) dec. Luciano Arroyo (S) 5-3 SV
149 -- Joshy Cortez (CP) dec. Dawson Sihavong (S) 3-1
157 -- Tyler Eischens (S) dec. Brawley Lamer (CP) 7-1
165 -- Shane Griffith (S) maj. dec. Bernie Truax (CP) 16-2

 

Van der Merwe inj def. out of there last tournament, any chance he may be hurt?

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1 hour ago, jsmalls131313 said:

Wow. Thats just bad coaching and horrible advertisement to future recruits. 

How so?  Don't most kids go to Stanford to get an education, it's an expensive place, so do you really want to spend money for 5 years to get a 4 year degree?  They got a chance to get into the lineup, why not take it?

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8 minutes ago, ionel said:

How so?  Don't most kids go to Stanford to get an education, it's an expensive place, so do you really want to spend money for 5 years to get a 4 year degree?  They got a chance to get into the lineup, why not take it?

 I agree with jsmalls here.  It IS bad coaching to redshirt a true freshman until January 17th and then burn his redshirt just to fill a need in their lineup (for whatever reason).  The only way I see a justification for burning THREE true freshmen redshirts (just to beat Cal Poly) is if there was some sort of flu epidemic in Palo Alto CA recently and most of the team had come down with the flu.  And even then I think you should forfeit those matches and take the dual loss if it's that bad.   You're basically just wasting a year of that recruit's eligibility.

Especially when the team had other wrestlers available at two of those three weight classes who were not true Freshmen.  Steven Abbate at 141 lbs and Tony WIlliams at 149 lbs.

P.S.  As I mentioned in an earlier thread - about PAC 12 duals this week - Stanford has two more duals today vs. N.A.I.A. Life Pacific (at 2 p.m. PT ) and vs. Cal Baptist at 6 p.m PT.  It will be interesting to see who competes for Stanford today in those two dual matches.

Edited by Bronco

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12 minutes ago, Bronco said:

 I agree with jsmalls here.  It IS bad coaching to redshirt a true freshman until January 17th and then burn his redshirt just to fill a need in their lineup (for whatever reason).  The only way I see a justification for burning THREE true freshmen redshirts (just to beat Cal Poly) is if there was some sort of flu epidemic in Palo Alto CA recently and most of the team had come down with the flu.  And even then I think you should forfeit those matches and take the dual loss if it's that bad.   You're basically just wasting a year of that recruit's eligibility.

Especially when the team had other wrestlers available at two of those three weight classes who were not true Freshmen.  Steven Abbate at 141 lbs and Tony WIlliams at 149 lbs.

P.S.  As I mentioned in an earlier thread - about PAC 12 duals this week - Stanford has two more duals today vs. N.A.I.A. Life Pacific (at 2 p.m. PT ) and vs. Cal Baptist at 6 p.m PT.  It will be interesting to see who competes for Stanford today in those two dual matches.

Their redshirts aren't "burned" they can use them next year if they want or the year after that or another year later ...  ;_;

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I've never heard of any of these three guys and all three of them lost to unranked wrestlers... I'm guessing these are not AA caliber wrestlers who are going to try and spend 5 years at Stanford to earn a national title.  With that being the case, why is it "burning" a redshirt to insert them in the lineup late?  Not every single person on a wrestling team can or should spend 5 years.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, ionel said:

Their redshirts aren't "burned" they can use them next year if they want or the year after that or another year later ...  ;_;

You have a minor point................not a GOOD point...........just a minor point.  It's still a waste of most of their first year in college to be used like this when there WERE other non-freshmen available for two of those three weight classes.   FACT is they WERE being redshirted this season but were ONLY used last night to win their dual with Cal Poly.  To burn one redshirt of one true freshman - not a big deal.  To burn THREE redshirts of THREE true freshman in one dual............that IS "bad" coaching IMO.

 

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10 minutes ago, lost said:

I've never heard of any of these three guys and all three of them lost to unranked wrestlers... I'm guessing these are not AA caliber wrestlers who are going to try and spend 5 years at Stanford to earn a national title.  With that being the case, why is it "burning" a redshirt to insert them in the lineup late?  Not every single person on a wrestling team can or should spend 5 years.

 

 

 

idiot.jpg

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34 minutes ago, Bronco said:

You have a minor point................not a GOOD point...........just a minor point.  It's still a waste of most of their first year in college to be used like this when there WERE other non-freshmen available for two of those three weight classes.   FACT is they WERE being redshirted this season but were ONLY used last night to win their dual with Cal Poly.  To burn one redshirt of one true freshman - not a big deal.  To burn THREE redshirts of THREE true freshman in one dual............that IS "bad" coaching IMO.

 

Lots of assumptions here - how do you know how many duals they will be used for or that they were only used for last night? How do you know to what extent the others were actually available? Are they injured? Can't make weight right now?  How do we know what the conversations were between coach and wrestlers? Did they volunteer to do it? Was it forced upon them? How realistic with Woods, Abas and Eichens in the lineup the next 4 years (and 3) that you see these guys in a starting role?  With that in mind, does it matter which year that they redshirt if it appears they may be spot starting for awhile anyway barring injury to any of those guys? I'm certainly not an insider with Stanford- maybe you are -  but I have seen where coaches have been second guessed only to find out that a guy is out for the season or that the wrestlers themselves stepped up to do it on their own accord.  O'Malley is an interesting one because he seems the only option unless they bump up a 184 that also still has a redshirt available. In the end you could be right, but as of right now there are a lot of questions as to why those decisions were made and not enough information to come to conclusions. 

 

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I would have thought if they were going to burn a redshirt they would have used Abas at 149 - especially if van der Merwe is on IR.  But then again - who really knows?

Edited by JerryCallo
misspelling

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37 minutes ago, JerryCallo said:

I would have thought if they were going to burn a redshirt they would have used Abas at 149 - especially if van der Merwe is on IR.  But then again - who really knows?

IMO that would have been a bad decision given that Abas is part of the future of a very solid middle weight lineup for years to come.  Abas - Woods - Eischens - Griffith. 

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I fail to see the problem here. Stanford is a program on the rise and wanted to ensure they didn’t lose a head scratching dual. O’Malley can still redshirt next year when Traxler is a redshirt senior. All due respect to Arroyo and Sihavong, but Woods and Abas are both freshman, while van der Merwe is a junior. I don’t see much potential for either of those backups to break into the lineup consistently ever in there careers. So yeah, when you have a chance to give them some varsity action you do it. I’m sure those young men will look back and be glad they got to participate in some team duals instead of protecting a redshirt. 

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1 hour ago, goheels1812 said:

I fail to see the problem here. Stanford is a program on the rise and wanted to ensure they didn’t lose a head scratching dual. O’Malley can still redshirt next year when Traxler is a redshirt senior. All due respect to Arroyo and Sihavong, but Woods and Abas are both freshman, while van der Merwe is a junior. I don’t see much potential for either of those backups to break into the lineup consistently ever in there careers. So yeah, when you have a chance to give them some varsity action you do it. I’m sure those young men will look back and be glad they got to participate in some team duals instead of protecting a redshirt. 

This. 

 

7 hours ago, jsmalls131313 said:

Wow. Thats just bad coaching and horrible advertisement to future recruits. 

How so? I'd love an explanation. Not every guy in the room is going to be a 4-year starter. If anything, this advertises one can get opportunities to start in duals--even if they are likely to be career backups to studs like Woods and Abas. 

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1 hour ago, goStanford18 said:

This. 

 

How so? I'd love an explanation. Not every guy in the room is going to be a 4-year starter. If anything, this advertises one can get opportunities to start in duals--even if they are likely to be career backups to studs like Woods and Abas. 

After thinking about it more, I don't think my initial post was correct. Its not 100% evidence of bad coaching. It really depends on the kids and what they want. 

If they aren't that serious about wrestling and really wanted to get on the mat vs Cal Poly, fine I can see that angle. 

 

If they wanted to keep their red shirt but the coach just really wanted to beat Cal Poly, then yeah, bad move. 

I don't agree with your angle "they can get opportunities to start in dues even if they are backups" since injuries and sickness happen at all universities on occasion 

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The issue isn't that they can't redshirt later on. It's that they only get 4 years of postseason eligibility and they just lost that, unless they are going to end up being in the lineup come the Pac 12 tournament.

If the guys they were replacing are out for the year, it makes a lot of sense. If they are going to be back for the postseason, it's a bit of an odd look.

You can't really project that wrestler A or B is going to be there in 3 years and so taking the redshirt away this year doesn't matter. They had a guy named McKenna that was supposed to be there for 4 years too. Guys get hurt, transfer, burn out, don't wrestle to expectations, etc.

I'm sure there were conversations between the wrestlers and coaches to make sure it was in everyone's best interest. For example, maybe none of them want to be there past 4 years anyways, so redshirts aren't of any use. They were just using the redshirt because they didn't need them up until this point.

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1 hour ago, PinFallRecruit said:

The issue isn't that they can't redshirt later on. It's that they only get 4 years of postseason eligibility and they just lost that, unless they are going to end up being in the lineup come the Pac 12 tournament.

If the guys they were replacing are out for the year, it makes a lot of sense. If they are going to be back for the postseason, it's a bit of an odd look.

You can't really project that wrestler A or B is going to be there in 3 years and so taking the redshirt away this year doesn't matter. They had a guy named McKenna that was supposed to be there for 4 years too. Guys get hurt, transfer, burn out, don't wrestle to expectations, etc.

I'm sure there were conversations between the wrestlers and coaches to make sure it was in everyone's best interest. For example, maybe none of them want to be there past 4 years anyways, so redshirts aren't of any use. They were just using the redshirt because they didn't need them up until this point.

The point is these guys aren't sticking around Palo Alto for 5 years so the redshirt is pointless. Room and board is 60K and these guys aren't on full rides.  It was likely that they were only redshirting because they weren't starting.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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