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P3terMueller

How to get a shollarship for wrestling when i live in germany at age 19 ?

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8 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

Not an expert or claim to be.  But I do know that foreign wrestlers who come here are surprised that even the top guys don't make much from wrestling.  In some places in Europe they think Americans get paid so well but they're pretty shocked at how little if anything guys make to wrestle here.  They think everyone gets Kyle Snyder or Jordan Burroughs kind of money.  

Well... Definitely more money than in Germany :-/ in the lower classes you can be happy if you get 20€ after competition for food. In the upper classes of the leagues the athletes get a little more money but it's not a lot, Denis Kudla won bronze in the Olympics and just received 10k.

An den Ersteller des Threads : schreib mir mal bitte eine Message hier, ein alter Schulfreund hat sich nämlich damals für ein Stipendium für Ringen beworben, bekommen und sein Studium dann auch in den USA beendet, vllt kann ich da einen Kontakt herstellen und er dir helfen bzgl Anforderungen etc. 

Edit Actually there is a German wrestler, Lars Schäfle, on a Scholarship for Wrestling at the University of Buffalo. Lars is the 2018 and 19 gold medal winner of German senior nationals at 86kg.

http://www.ringen-sbrv.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=354:lars-schaefle-in-usa&catid=11&Itemid=101

Edited by Graverobber
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1 hour ago, Graverobber said:

Well... Definitely more money than in Germany :-/ in the lower classes you can be happy if you get 20€ after competition for food. In the upper classes of the leagues the athletes get a little more money but it's not a lot, Denis Kudla won bronze in the Olympics and just received 10k.

An den Ersteller des Threads : schreib mir mal bitte eine Message hier, ein alter Schulfreund hat sich nämlich damals für ein Stipendium für Ringen beworben, bekommen und sein Studium dann auch in den USA beendet, vllt kann ich da einen Kontakt herstellen und er dir helfen bzgl Anforderungen etc. 

Edit Actually there is a German wrestler, Lars Schäfle, on a Scholarship for Wrestling at the University of Buffalo. Lars is the 2018 and 19 gold medal winner of German senior nationals at 86kg.

http://www.ringen-sbrv.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=354:lars-schaefle-in-usa&catid=11&Itemid=101

Lower tier programs are a better place for foriegn guys usually.  If they go bust, the admin doesn't care usually.  But if Brands or Sanderson gave a full scholarship to some foriegn guy who went bust, it would be pretty bad for them until they could unload him. Some guys could pan out great but no guarantees being good at freestyle means you'll thrive in folk.

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2 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

Lower tier programs are a better place for foriegn guys usually.  If they go bust, the admin doesn't care usually.  But if Brands or Sanderson gave a full scholarship to some foriegn guy who went bust, it would be pretty bad for them until they could unload him. Some guys could pan out great but no guarantees being good at freestyle means you'll thrive in folk.

 

First of all I agree with you but Honestly, I don't understand much from folkstyle and I don't know how good the Programm from the university of Buffalo is, maybe you can tell me that :) but in the case of lars schäfle I don't think it's the wrong choice to give him a Scholarship because he won two senior titles at German championships and represented Germany at junior//U23 Europeans and World championships.

In my opinion the German federation need to step up and create a own scholarship Programm to support our talents. If any German wrestler decides to achieve a scholarship in the states I'm totally fine with it but there should be alternatives in Germany. We only got 2 or 3 highschools with wrestling Programms and afterwards the "only" way to get any Form of scholarship to proceed wrestling is in joining the military or police. 

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5 hours ago, Graverobber said:

 

First of all I agree with you but Honestly, I don't understand much from folkstyle and I don't know how good the Programm from the university of Buffalo is, maybe you can tell me that :) but in the case of lars schäfle I don't think it's the wrong choice to give him a Scholarship because he won two senior titles at German championships and represented Germany at junior//U23 Europeans and World championships.

In my opinion the German federation need to step up and create a own scholarship Programm to support our talents. If any German wrestler decides to achieve a scholarship in the states I'm totally fine with it but there should be alternatives in Germany. We only got 2 or 3 highschools with wrestling Programms and afterwards the "only" way to get any Form of scholarship to proceed wrestling is in joining the military or police. 

Buffalo isn't a very good program, but I could see why they gave him a scholarship.  To them if he succeeds and becomes an All American, then it' a success.  Buffalo usually doesn't attract elite talent here to wrestle in college, so they need to do something.  If Lars doesn't succeed then it isn't a big deal because Buffalo doesn't have much success anyway.  They just burned a scholarship on a foreign guy who didn't pan out, and the only real negative of that is that they could have possibly had 2 or 3 in state kids share that scholarship instead of blowing it on some farshtunkener from Germany.  You'll only rarely see a top program bring in foreign athletes, and usually they'll find a way to do it academically so that their loss is minimal if it doesn't work out.  The last big time program I remember was Oklahoma State having the Russian Gegoev from maybe 7 or 8 years ago.  

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On 1/24/2020 at 2:41 PM, 77again said:

You beat me to it. The level of self assessed expertise of posters on this board is incredible.

I was an assistant college coach.  I helped recruit a team that won a national championship.  I had to scout other high level wrestlers and analyze their strengths and weaknesses as a coach and as an athlete.  I claimed I could tell if a guy could get a juco scholarship by watching him compete.  Why does that sound incredible?

Edited by olddirty

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9 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

I think it is very presumptuous to say this guy has a scholarship.  Does somebody have first hand knowledge?

Recruiting at Buffalo isn't the best.They dont get to many events most of it is done online.Another thing is roster turnover they had 15 freshman this year.They tend to bring in big classes but don't retain the guys.When that happens you reach on guys hoping to find that diamond in the ruff.Lars contacted  D1 universities and found one willing to give him a scholarship good for Lars.So sounds like  foreign kids should contact Buffalo if they want a scholarship.

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On 1/25/2020 at 6:13 PM, olddirty said:

I was an assistant college coach.  I helped recruit a team that won a national championship.  I had to scout other high level wrestlers and analyze their strengths and weaknesses as a coach and as an athlete.  I claimed I could tell if a guy could get a juco scholarship by watching him compete.  Why does that sound incredible?

Having both competed and coached (also assistant) at the D1 level, I found it kind of humorous when you said to the guy from Germany to send in some video to coaches, since you could "certainly tell" if he was JUCO scholarship material by those videos.  For starters, any of us on this board could watch Brent McCalf in HS and know that he was scholarship material. But when you start getting to third and fourth tier wrestlers of the Junior College level, it becomes incredibly difficult.

I could show you some hand picked videos of a good HS wrestler competing against mid level guys, that would make him look like a no brainer for the BIG TEN. Then I could show you the same the same wrestler competing against guys a couple levels up in ability, and you might wonder if he should even bother with trying college wrestling at any level.  

Most college coaches I knew, and know, are not at all interested in some hand picked videos, and they will tell you that they want to see how the wrestler performs against "top tier" guys. Even then the best coaches and recruiters in the country still get it wrong a lot. If our young German friend has video of him in the Junior European finals, coaches will pay attention, but if he sends in video of him thumping some guys from his local district, good luck on getting anyone to even watch those matches.   

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14 hours ago, 77again said:

Having both competed and coached (also assistant) at the D1 level, I found it kind of humorous when you said to the guy from Germany to send in some video to coaches, since you could "certainly tell" if he was JUCO scholarship material by those videos.  For starters, any of us on this board could watch Brent McCalf in HS and know that he was scholarship material. But when you start getting to third and fourth tier wrestlers of the Junior College level, it becomes incredibly difficult.

I could show you some hand picked videos of a good HS wrestler competing against mid level guys, that would make him look like a no brainer for the BIG TEN. Then I could show you the same the same wrestler competing against guys a couple levels up in ability, and you might wonder if he should even bother with trying college wrestling at any level.  

Most college coaches I knew, and know, are not at all interested in some hand picked videos, and they will tell you that they want to see how the wrestler performs against "top tier" guys. Even then the best coaches and recruiters in the country still get it wrong a lot. If our young German friend has video of him in the Junior European finals, coaches will pay attention, but if he sends in video of him thumping some guys from his local district, good luck on getting anyone to even watch those matches.   

Yeah because JR. Euro finals is comparable to juco folkstyle, which they have no experience in. Good luck getting anyone with a clue to care. Sorry, but that was rude and I realize I'm being rude in return. 

OP asked how to explore the world and continue wrestling which they love, and this conversation has devolved into how someone can be Brent Metcalf.

We should all course correct and help out our friend from Deutschland who wants to learn and compete!

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15 hours ago, 77again said:

Having both competed and coached (also assistant) at the D1 level, I found it kind of humorous when you said to the guy from Germany to send in some video to coaches, since you could "certainly tell" if he was JUCO scholarship material by those videos.  For starters, any of us on this board could watch Brent McCalf in HS and know that he was scholarship material. But when you start getting to third and fourth tier wrestlers of the Junior College level, it becomes incredibly difficult.

I could show you some hand picked videos of a good HS wrestler competing against mid level guys, that would make him look like a no brainer for the BIG TEN. Then I could show you the same the same wrestler competing against guys a couple levels up in ability, and you might wonder if he should even bother with trying college wrestling at any level.  

Most college coaches I knew, and know, are not at all interested in some hand picked videos, and they will tell you that they want to see how the wrestler performs against "top tier" guys. Even then the best coaches and recruiters in the country still get it wrong a lot. If our young German friend has video of him in the Junior European finals, coaches will pay attention, but if he sends in video of him thumping some guys from his local district, good luck on getting anyone to even watch those matches.   

And you dont think other coaches beside yourself would take a minute to look at what the tournament or matches were, and determine the level of competition?  Maybe thats how you went about your business.  Its not how I did.

 

But when you start getting to third and fourth tier wrestlers of the Junior College level, it becomes incredibly difficult.

Again, maybe thats how you feel.  Both of my college roommates coach for the #1 ranked Juco team with multiple national finalists and multiple team championship wins.  I am confident in their ability to watch film, put it in context, evaluate the level of the opponent, and determine if at least 1 coach in the nation would take a chance with a scholarship.  If you cant determine that with video, thats you.

Edited by olddirty

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Yes, I am willing to admit that I can't necessarily determine who gets a scholarship from a few hand picked videos. If you are "certain" you can, please post your phone number because I'm sure a lot of college coaches will want to hire you and pay you big bucks. Good luck!

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Cal Baptist just recruited the 74kg rep from Germany's Senior MFS team. I don't believe he has any American folkstyle experience, but his lack of collegiate style mat wrestling will probably be offset with his neutral game and grown-man strength. He's kind of an older guy and will be around 28 by the time he graduates.

 

@P3terMueller do you know him?

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12 minutes ago, pamela said:

Cal Baptist just recruited the 74kg rep from Germany's Senior MFS team. I don't believe he has any American folkstyle experience, but his lack of collegiate style mat wrestling will probably be offset with his neutral game and grown-man strength. He's kind of an older guy and will be around 28 by the time he graduates.

 

@P3terMueller do you know him?

That's unusual because of the age limits on D1 athletes.  

There is an age limit for NCAA Division I and II sports. The NCAA allows a one year grace period after high school graduation for DI and II schools. One year after your high school class graduates is when your eligibility will start to be affected in all sports except for hockey, skiing and tennis. The eligibility clock does not start for hockey players and skiers until after their 21st birthday. Tennis players start losing eligibility 6 months after they graduate high school."

Unless he was in the military or on a religious mission he seems like he won't be there too long.  Maybe he has plans to stick around as a grad assistant or something?  If he is 23 or 24, then that would mean he might have a year left, if he graduated at 19.  

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Recruit Johann Steinforth is 23. Looks like he spent quite a bit of time in the military.  I am skeptical the clock doesn't start at the same time for international students. If some wrestling parents were aware of this loophole, they'd ship little Johnny overseas, juice him up and bring him back at 23.

Edited by Plasmodium

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5 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Recruit Johann Steinforth is 23. Looks like he spent quite a bit of time in the military.  I am skeptical the clock doesn't start at the same time for international students. If some wrestling parents were aware of this loophole, they'd ship little Johnny overseas, juice him up and bring him back at 23.

I agree that it's a loophole in the rules, but it probably isn't one that's worth exploiting. Age is a liability in professional sports. Given a choice, an NFL team would take a gifted 21 year old player with a high ceiling over a 28 year old who is probably at or closer to their ceiling, more injury prone and with fewer "prime" playing years in their body. There's also a cultural aspect, like elite college bball players are often embarrassed for entering the draft as an upperclassman or after graduation; or reclassify themselves in hs to start college sooner than later. I guess kids in sports like wrestling, swimming or gymnastics could work the loophole to increase their chances of landing a scholarship but the opportunity cost seems pretty high relative to the value of winning an NCAA title.

In either case though, it will be super interesting to see how Steinforth does in folkstyle. Hopefully we will see more of this type of recruiting at the college level.

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On 1/20/2020 at 9:08 PM, MonagFam said:

 

Thanks for both of your replies.  I don't think I considered all that it entails from the international perspective.  What I initially thought about was soccer where there are a lot of international athletes in colleges throughout the US.  That said, it's a huge sport internationally, even if not from a US collegiate perspective, and there are probably lots more opportunities.

The international players in college soccer are failed athletes in their home countries. This is also true of tennis in college. 
 

They aren’t good enough to be on the pro track so they use it to move to the States and study. 
 

But wrestling is different.  Wrestling in the States is actually good.  If you’re good enough to All-American (which are the athletes schools are after) then you’re good enough to be trying to make a world team.  

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On 4/18/2020 at 7:23 AM, pamela said:

I don’t believe the 12 month eligibility clock after hs applies to international students. Other than that, there’s no age limit in D1.

I know for sure that the same eligibility clock rules applies for international students too.. In some European countries I think the kids are also year or two older once the graduate from hs than in US. 

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On 4/20/2020 at 7:17 AM, CUW said:

I know for sure that the same eligibility clock rules applies for international students too.. In some European countries I think the kids are also year or two older once the graduate from hs than in US. 

How many years of D1 eligibility would you expect Steinforth to have if he enrolls this fall?

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I think he has maybe at best a year or two.  If he has any more than that then expect some borderline kids to go hang out in a foreign military for a few years.  If I had a kid who maybe wasn't ready to wrestle in college right away, either from a physical or mental standpoint, I'd encourage them to enlist in the military and develop whatever they lacked and then when they were finished with their enlistment, try wrestling in college.  I know that some foreign military service is comparable to what you would see if you were in the reserves or national guard here, so a lot of their free time could be spent wrestling or doing physical training.  

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2 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

I think he has maybe at best a year or two.  If he has any more than that then expect some borderline kids to go hang out in a foreign military for a few years.  If I had a kid who maybe wasn't ready to wrestle in college right away, either from a physical or mental standpoint, I'd encourage them to enlist in the military and develop whatever they lacked and then when they were finished with their enlistment, try wrestling in college.  I know that some foreign military service is comparable to what you would see if you were in the reserves or national guard here, so a lot of their free time could be spent wrestling or doing physical training.  

This is not a new policy, why is this guy a lightening rod? 

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1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

This is not a new policy, why is this guy a lightening rod? 

It's pretty rare that American colleges get top level foreigners coming here.  I can't think of any time that somebody who made a world team for their country where wrestling is a serious sport, like they produce world and Olympic medalists fairly routinely, has come here to wrestle in college.  Maybe the Finnish guy who wrestled for Campbell? Like somebody said, the guys who come here are usually failed athletes in their country.  If they weren't, they would be training to break through and make their country's world or Olympic team.  Gelagoev wasn't anywhere near the top in Russia. Hetag Pliev came here in high school, went back to Russia and wasn't anywhere near making a world team, so he went to Canada.  I wouldn't call this guy a lightning rod, but I'd be surprised if he had more than 2 seasons of eligibility.  

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1 hour ago, TripNSweep said:

It's pretty rare that American colleges get top level foreigners coming here.  I can't think of any time that somebody who made a world team for their country where wrestling is a serious sport, like they produce world and Olympic medalists fairly routinely, has come here to wrestle in college.  Maybe the Finnish guy who wrestled for Campbell? Like somebody said, the guys who come here are usually failed athletes in their country.  If they weren't, they would be training to break through and make their country's world or Olympic team.  Gelagoev wasn't anywhere near the top in Russia. Hetag Pliev came here in high school, went back to Russia and wasn't anywhere near making a world team, so he went to Canada.  I wouldn't call this guy a lightning rod, but I'd be surprised if he had more than 2 seasons of eligibility.  

The  Abdurakhmanovs would fit that definition.  Maybe Jesus Wilson a long time ago. Very rare indeed. 

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8 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

I think he has maybe at best a year or two.  If he has any more than that then expect some borderline kids to go hang out in a foreign military for a few years.  If I had a kid who maybe wasn't ready to wrestle in college right away, either from a physical or mental standpoint, I'd encourage them to enlist in the military and develop whatever they lacked and then when they were finished with their enlistment, try wrestling in college.  I know that some foreign military service is comparable to what you would see if you were in the reserves or national guard here, so a lot of their free time could be spent wrestling or doing physical training.  

Steinforth started wrestling at 5 years old, he won a couple of fifth places at European or world champions in the age groups and he was enlisted in the military as a member of the sport divisions, because in Germany it's the "best thing" to earn some money while being in a Olympic sports and the talent to produce some good results. 

In 2019 he was our number 2, but our number 1 turned the world championships down because of injury and Steinforth was his replacement. Also he wrestled in the German Bundesliga for Wacker Burghausen, which won the League, in 2019 he fought notable Opponents like Timur Bizhoev (Russia) and Mihail Sava (Moldova) 

 

Here are some matches from the German Nationals :

 

Semifinal match

Final

He also made it to the quarterfinals in 2018 world championships and lost against Sidakov. 

 

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