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2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Actually I've seen a number of accusations regarding Sidakov on here, I'm not buying that one.  And certainly nobody would mistake him for Geduev looking at their physique, but the accusations are there.

The doping program was state sponsored.  You pretty much had to do it if you wanted to compete.  Keep in mind that anabolics aren't the only type of PED.  

Amazing at how much better conditioned the Russians have looked the past couple years.  More late wins than ever...

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12 minutes ago, DuckFor2 said:

certainly one of Abdullah's most ridiculous posts ever. the headbutt alone in that match seemed to driven from a little extra mojo. 

and the dude clearly was sauced! as was Bolt! we don't just throw false accusations out there if a guy doesn't look "enhanced"

there are more than enough photos out there supporting his jacked up, veins bulging physical state. JUICED!

ha... it is the first claim whenever any american gets beat... the meatheads on this forum would look at saitiev and claim he was juiced...

JB/dake/snyder physique on a russian wrestler would bring out all the juicing chants...

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3 minutes ago, LJB said:

ha... it is the first claim whenever any american gets beat... the meatheads on this forum would look at saitiev and claim he was juiced...

JB/dake/snyder physique on a russian wrestler would bring out all the juicing chants...

I do not look at the physique.  I look at the government's state sponsored program. Systematic cheating.  Their worst year ever was the year the heat was on... 2017.  They have gotten markedly better since... and now banned again because they were cheating.  Not cheating as individuals, cheating as a nation as a foreign policy tool.

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Hey, I never would say this, but when I was younger my coach told me that all Russian citizens are cheaters and can't win without cheating.  Very mentally and physically weak.  That is why their government makes them take PEDs, because there is no way they can win without them.  Coach said that you can never trust a Russian citizen in any sporting event because cheating is all they know.  Coach also said that they know they are still cheating but still brag about their countryman's victories. 
I will never forget that my coach said that stuff.  I certainly would never say it though.


That’s so stupid. Russians are obviously tough as nails as a people. They defeated the Nazis and lived under brutal conditions and governments for generations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Just now, GoNotQuietly said:

 


That’s so stupid. Russians are obviously tough as nails as a people. They defeated the Nazis and lived under brutal conditions and governments for generations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I agree. But my coach does not.

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2 minutes ago, GoNotQuietly said:

 


That’s so stupid. Russians are obviously tough as nails as a people. They defeated the Nazis and lived under brutal conditions and governments for generations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

clearly you have not been following along...

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4 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

I do not look at the physique.  I look at the government's state sponsored program. Systematic cheating.  Their worst year ever was the year the heat was on... 2017.  They have gotten markedly better since... and now banned again because they were cheating.  Not cheating as individuals, cheating as a nation as a foreign policy tool.

i can not in good conscience disagree with your sentiment... but using it as a battle cry everytime any non-american athlete wins is a weak mind in effect... an excuse mentality... that is what i can not abide by...

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10 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

The doping program was state sponsored.  You pretty much had to do it if you wanted to compete.  Keep in mind that anabolics aren't the only type of PED.  

Amazing at how much better conditioned the Russians have looked the past couple years.  More late wins than ever...

I realize all that.  And like I said everyone is suspect.  I'm just not into throwing out accusations just because of someone winning.  LJB brings up a good point, JB, Snyder, Dake....would all be thrown to the doping wolves if they were Russian.  Taylor went through a transformation to get up to 86....nobody here said anything about Doping, but if he was Russian, well we know how that would have been.  The other side of that is that when your national runs a state sponsored program, have been proven guilty multiple times and still continue to do it....those accusations aren't exactly unjustified.  

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Just now, LJB said:

i can not in good conscience disagree with your sentiment... but using it as a battle cry everytime any non-american athlete wins is a weak mind in effect... an excuse mentality... that is what i can not abide by...

I agree that an athlete who is competing cannot allow that thought into his head, however I am an ex-athlete pounding keys on a message board and I have a pretty good idea of what was happening.  I watched Icarus and I have read the news.

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1 minute ago, Lurker said:

I realize all that.  And like I said everyone is suspect.  I'm just not into throwing out accusations just because of someone winning.  LJB brings up a good point, JB, Snyder, Dake....would all be thrown to the doping wolves if they were Russian.  Taylor went through a transformation to get up to 86....nobody here said anything about Doping, but if he was Russian, well we know how that would have been.  The other side of that is that when your national runs a state sponsored program, have been proven guilty multiple times and still continue to do it....those accusations aren't exactly unjustified.  

If those guys were Russian, they would  be in the program... so I definitely agree.

And Taylor's choice alignment with that particular gym and program has always raised red flags for me...

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8 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

I agree that an athlete who is competing cannot allow that thought into his head, however I am an ex-athlete pounding keys on a message board and I have a pretty good idea of what was happening.  I watched Icarus and I have read the news.

fair point, but, so is khudzin and you are all are crucifying him for poking fun at your country's wrestlers all the while doing the exact same thing to his...

it all seems a bit silly to me... the value that kid brings to this forum is ten fold of just about anyone else here

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Just now, LJB said:

fair point, but, so is khudzin and you are all are crucifying him for poking fun at your country's wrestlers all the while doing the exact same thing to his...

it all seems a bit silly to me... the value that kid brings to this forum is ten fold of just about anyone else here

You may have missed a post of his last week?

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33 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

The doping program was state sponsored.  You pretty much had to do it if you wanted to compete.  Keep in mind that anabolics aren't the only type of PED.  

Amazing at how much better conditioned the Russians have looked the past couple years.  More late wins than ever...

I don't think state sponsored is technically correct. But I would say state condoned with a lot of people looking the other way.

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2 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

You may have missed a post of his last week?

doubtful, but, i also see the trolling for what it is and can appreciate it on some levels... get the thin skinned meatheads all riled up... they deserve it for being thin skinned meatheads...

"if Odin hadn't wanted them to be sheared, he would not have made them sheep..."

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5 minutes ago, LJB said:

fair point, but, so is khudzin and you are all are crucifying him for poking fun at your country's wrestlers all the while doing the exact same thing to his...

it all seems a bit silly to me... the value that kid brings to this forum is ten fold of just about anyone else here

Kinda agree here, but you don't see a difference between accusations of doping of an athlete representing a nation that will continue to do it through their own government, no matter how many times they get caught?  I totally agree crying doping with every big win is a little asinine, the russians have been winning way before all this state sponsored doping.  They've been winning for a very very long time.  I respect their technique and way of wrestling as much as anyone.  But its not nearly as asinine as the comment we're talking about here.  I'm sure he is tired of hearing the accusations, I personally would look to throw shade on the people running that program that brings the accusations rather than making "made big man cry" comments.  But to each their own.

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2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Kinda agree here, but you don't see a difference between accusations of doping of an athlete representing a nation that will continue to do it through their own government, no matter how many times they get caught?  I totally agree crying doping with every big win is a little asinine, the russians have been winning way before all this state sponsored doping.  They've been winning for a very very long time.  I respect their technique and way of wrestling as much as anyone.  But its not nearly as asinine as the comment we're talking about here.  I'm sure he is tired of hearing the accusations, I personally would look to throw shade on the people running that program that brings the accusations rather than making "made big man cry" comments.  But to each their own.

i don't see the difference between words on a lame forum having any effect one way or the other... 

but weak minded meatheads and all that...

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10 minutes ago, LJB said:

i don't see the difference between words on a lame forum having any effect one way or the other... 

but weak minded meatheads and all that...

Effect...of course not.  Weak minded meatheads, of course.  I think we're more or less of the same mindset, both are stupid and senseless.  Just some more than others.

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37 minutes ago, LJB said:

fair point, but, so is khudzin and you are all are crucifying him for poking fun at your country's wrestlers all the while doing the exact same thing to his...

it all seems a bit silly to me... the value that kid brings to this forum is ten fold of just about anyone else here

"You all are crucifying him for poking fun at your country's wrestlers", no, not we all, he is a real ass, but that's not for making fun of Burroughs or Taylor or whoever wrestler, but just for the fact that he is a real xenophobic, ignorant guy.

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1 minute ago, Axe_Spartan said:

"You all are crucifying him for poking fun at your country's wrestlers", no, not we all, he is a real ass, but that's not for making fun of Burroughs or Taylor or whoever wrestler, but just for the fact that he is a real xenophobic, ignorant guy.

that has not been my experience at all...

perhaps you should look inward...

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9 minutes ago, LJB said:

that has not been my experience at all...

perhaps you should look inward...

Interpretation, please.

I didn't say it was your experience, I said we are not crucifying him for the same reason like you wrote it before.

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4 minutes ago, Axe_Spartan said:

Interpretation, please.

I didn't say it was your experience, I said we are not crucifying him for the same reason like you wrote it before.

ugh...

he is being dogged here because of what he poked fun about... you saw an opportunity to chime in with the pack because you had a personal gripe and then disparaged him...

i explained that your remarks are not at all what i have personally experienced with khudzin...

the look inward comment is a light bulb moment for you to think about how you interact with others and that possibly whatever his comments to you were well deserved...

any other pictures you want painted?

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3 minutes ago, LJB said:

ugh...

he is being dogged here because of what he poked fun about... you saw an opportunity to chime in with the pack because you had a personal gripe and then disparaged him...

i explained that your remarks are not at all what i have personally experienced with khudzin...

the look inward comment is a light bulb moment for you to think about how you interact with others and that possibly whatever his comments to you were well deserved...

any other pictures you want painted?

No, I just showed he is a real ass, reinforcing the point if you prefer, simple as that. 

It wasn't well deserved, xenophobic and racist comments are not well deserved anywhere, maybe where you lived it was common, not where I grew up. You don't do that not even in a discussion, much less when you are just talking to a person.

How much is he paying you?

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Axe_Spartan said:

No, I just showed he is a real ass, reinforcing the point if you prefer, simple as that. 

It wasn't well deserved, xenophobic and racist comments are not well deserved anywhere, maybe where you lived it was common, not where I grew up. You don't do that not even in a discussion, much less when you are just talking to a person.

How much is he paying you?

paying me?

you are adorable...

i don;t know the comment nor the circumstances, but, i do get a sense of your personality... 

some people just look to be outraged about some perceived slight...

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4 minutes ago, LJB said:

paying me?

you are adorable...

i don;t know the comment nor the circumstances, but, i do get a sense of your personality... 

some people just look to be outraged about some perceived slight...

Yes, it seems like you are defending him at all costs.

Sure, you are a real pro, you get a "sense of my personality" for being outrageous about xenophobic comments.

 

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

I realize all that.  And like I said everyone is suspect.  I'm just not into throwing out accusations just because of someone winning.  LJB brings up a good point, JB, Snyder, Dake....would all be thrown to the doping wolves if they were Russian.  Taylor went through a transformation to get up to 86....nobody here said anything about Doping, but if he was Russian, well we know how that would have been.  The other side of that is that when your national runs a state sponsored program, have been proven guilty multiple times and still continue to do it....those accusations aren't exactly unjustified.  

This is the biggest issue for me. Yes, the Russians cheat. Are we sure we don’t also? When Mohammadian stood next to Snyder, 2 inches or so shorter but just as big, who looked like the doper? JO popped for something quite benign, as did Obe Blanc who then retired after a brief and unsuccessful comeback, but if they were Russian, how many would be suspecting the suddenly conditioned JO of PED use? (JO is one of my favorite contemporary wrestlers and I believe he is clean, by the way.) DT transformed his body just as much as any Russian I’ve seen, and he did it under the tutelage of a special strength coach who focuses on MMA athletes like the known doper TJ Dillashaw. Coincidence? 
 

I’m not accusing any of these guys of anything but if they were Russian, we all know what the conventional “wisdom” would be on them. I do think many Russians dope. The state-level doping program is now well-established. I am skeptical of any Russian wrestler because of the amount of evidence that has been established about the state-level support. But I also can’t say with confidence that Russian X is surely doing while American Y is surely not. It’s hard to give the benefit of the doubt but an automatic PED excuse for every American loss is a very blunt and misused instrument. 

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