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3 minutes ago, Axe_Spartan said:

Yes, it seems like you are defending him at all costs.

Sure, you are a real pro, you get a "sense of my personality" for being outrageous about xenophobic comments.

 

AT ALL COSTS???????

HYPERBOLE MUCH???????

go ahead and hold onto your outrage... i will remain over here to the left getting quality posts from one of you and not the other...

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11 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

This is the biggest issue for me. Yes, the Russians cheat. Are we sure we don’t also? When Mohammadian stood next to Snyder, 2 inches or so shorter but just as big, who looked like the doper? JO popped for something quite benign, as did Obe Blanc who then retired after a brief and unsuccessful comeback, but if they were Russian, how many would be suspecting the suddenly conditioned JO of PED use? (JO is one of my favorite contemporary wrestlers and I believe he is clean, by the way.) DT transformed his body just as much as any Russian I’ve seen, and he did it under the tutelage of a special strength coach who focuses on MMA athletes like the known doper TJ Dillashaw. Coincidence? 
 

I’m not accusing any of these guys of anything but if they were Russian, we all know what the conventional “wisdom” would be on them. I do think many Russians dope. The state-level doping program is now well-established. I am skeptical of any Russian wrestler because of the amount of evidence that has been established about the state-level support. But I also can’t say with confidence that Russian X is surely doing while American Y is surely not. It’s hard to give the benefit of the doubt but an automatic PED excuse for every American loss is a very blunt and misused instrument. 

Couldn't agree more with the entire post.

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3 minutes ago, LJB said:

AT ALL COSTS???????

HYPERBOLE MUCH???????

go ahead and hold onto your outrage... i will remain over here to the left getting quality posts from one of you and not the other...

Caps on to express yourself on a post? No, you are the adorable one after all.

Good for you boy, I've been getting quality russian wrestling info from Ivan anyway.

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2 minutes ago, Axe_Spartan said:

Caps on to express yourself on a post? No, you are the adorable one after all.

Good for you boy, I've been getting quality russian wrestling info from Ivan anyway.

quick, look and jump as high as you can... reach for it, sparky... because clearly it is sailing over your head with a quickness 

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10 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Couldn't agree more with the entire post.

same...

if you want to enjoy the sport (and any other),  put on your rose colored glasses and take the attitude they are all clean and earn what they get through hard work and odin-given natural ability no matter how naive that may in fact be...

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This is the biggest issue for me. Yes, the Russians cheat. Are we sure we don’t also? When Mohammadian stood next to Snyder, 2 inches or so shorter but just as big, who looked like the doper? JO popped for something quite benign, as did Obe Blanc who then retired after a brief and unsuccessful comeback, but if they were Russian, how many would be suspecting the suddenly conditioned JO of PED use? (JO is one of my favorite contemporary wrestlers and I believe he is clean, by the way.) DT transformed his body just as much as any Russian I’ve seen, and he did it under the tutelage of a special strength coach who focuses on MMA athletes like the known doper TJ Dillashaw. Coincidence? 
 
I’m not accusing any of these guys of anything but if they were Russian, we all know what the conventional “wisdom” would be on them. I do think many Russians dope. The state-level doping program is now well-established. I am skeptical of any Russian wrestler because of the amount of evidence that has been established about the state-level support. But I also can’t say with confidence that Russian X is surely doing while American Y is surely not. It’s hard to give the benefit of the doubt but an automatic PED excuse for every American loss is a very blunt and misused instrument. 


I had to Google those names... interesting.



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herein lies the rub... we want our athletes to do everything they can to perform at the highest level they can... full commitment... do everything possible to bring home that medal/trophy/award so we all can bask in the glow of their achievement...

it can be a fine line...

who was the american gymnast that popped for an advil?

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15 minutes ago, LJB said:

quick, look and jump as high as you can... reach for it, sparky... because clearly it is sailing over your head with a quickness 

Don't feed the internet troll they said, unfortunately I can't help myself sometimes.

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1 minute ago, LJB said:

herein lies the rub... we want our athletes to do everything they can to perform at the highest level they can... full commitment... do everything possible to bring home that medal/trophy/award so we all can bask in the glow of their achievement...

it can be a fine line...

who was the american gymnast that popped for an advil?

I hear what you're saying.  It can be a fine line.  I personally don't want wins over doing it the right way.  It gets to this argument I always get into when someone is cheating at any game, whether it be rec or a world championship.  And that is "he/she is so competitive they'll do anything  to win, even cheat".  In my  opinion NO!  Cheating is NOT competitive, it is anti-competitive.  Competitive is....this is the game, here are the rules we are bound by, you bring your best and I'll bring my best. And within that I'm going to do my best to beat your ass.  When you go outside of that and start cheating, to me that is anti-competitive.

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33 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

This is the biggest issue for me. Yes, the Russians cheat. Are we sure we don’t also? When Mohammadian stood next to Snyder, 2 inches or so shorter but just as big, who looked like the doper? JO popped for something quite benign, as did Obe Blanc who then retired after a brief and unsuccessful comeback, but if they were Russian, how many would be suspecting the suddenly conditioned JO of PED use? (JO is one of my favorite contemporary wrestlers and I believe he is clean, by the way.) DT transformed his body just as much as any Russian I’ve seen, and he did it under the tutelage of a special strength coach who focuses on MMA athletes like the known doper TJ Dillashaw. Coincidence? 
 

I’m not accusing any of these guys of anything but if they were Russian, we all know what the conventional “wisdom” would be on them. I do think many Russians dope. The state-level doping program is now well-established. I am skeptical of any Russian wrestler because of the amount of evidence that has been established about the state-level support. But I also can’t say with confidence that Russian X is surely doing while American Y is surely not. It’s hard to give the benefit of the doubt but an automatic PED excuse for every American loss is a very blunt and misused instrument. 

Great post!

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1 minute ago, Lurker said:

I hear what you're saying.  It can be a fine line.  I personally don't want wins over doing it the right way.  It gets to this argument I always get into when someone is cheating at any game, whether it be rec or a world championship.  And that is "he/she is so competitive they'll do anything  to win, even cheat".  In my  opinion NO!  Cheating is NOT competitive, it is anti-competitive.  Competitive is....this is the game, here are the rules we are bound by, you bring your best and I'll bring my best. And within that I'm going to do my best to beat your ass.  When you go outside of that and start cheating, to me that is anti-competitive.

i totally agree... and that is why i choose to believe every athlete is doing it the right way and not looking for excuses as to why somehting did or didn't happen... it is the only way to just enjoy competition...

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4 minutes ago, Axe_Spartan said:

Don't feed the internet troll they said, unfortunately I can't help myself sometimes.

hey, good one... internet troll... could you possibly be more trite?

my guess is, YES YOU CAN!!!!!

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18 hours ago, Abdullahgadzhi Khuzin said:

juice or not, but this guy made JB cry like girl! it was sad when tough guy was destroyed and then cry. 

Normally I'm pro-Russia (especially on a forum full of 'Muricans ganging up on you) but come on man, JB is a legend and an awesome guy outside wrestling too... 

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6 minutes ago, LJB said:

hey, good one... internet troll... could you possibly be more trite?

my guess is, YES YOU CAN!!!!!

Again with the caps, don't be nervous man, the "real ass" comment wasn't at first directed to you.

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No one will like me after this post, but here it goes

It is really bad form to disrespect a legend and one of the greatest wrestlers of all time.Burroughs is one of the greatest of all time and should be treated with the respect he deserves.

I am also disappointed that every time an American loses some of the posters here accuse the winner of juicing.  What happened to innocent till proven guilty?  I remember people here were accusing Hassan Yazdani of juicing because he grew very fast, but as soon as he lost to Taylor, everything was OK.

 

 

Edited by irani

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51 minutes ago, irani said:

No one will like me after this post, but here it goes

It is really bad form to disrespect a legend and one of the greatest wrestlers of all time.Burroughs is one of the greatest of all time and should be treated with the respect he deserves.

I am also disappointed that every time an American loses some of the posters here accuse the winner of juicing.  What happened to innocent till proven guilty?  I remember people here were accusing Hassan Yazdani of juicing because he grew very fast, but as soon as he lost to Taylor, everything was OK.

 

 

Taylor, who really underwent a body change as well (wasn’t he 103lbr at one point in HS?). Unfortunately finding something/someone to blame is the first reaction in our part of the world these days. Mixed in with a little “I got screwed”. 

Still all is well with me Irani. 

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4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Taylor, who really underwent a body change as well (wasn’t he 103lbr at one point in HS?). Unfortunately finding something/someone to blame is the first reaction in our part of the world these days. Mixed in with a little “I got screwed”. 

Still all is well with me Irani. 

It hurts when your guy loses.  It stings more when he gets destroyed.  But that is part of the sport, and you have to take it like a man.

I love Hassan Yazdani.  It broke my heart when he got pinned by Taylor in front of the home town fans.  But, I have nothing but respect and admiration for Taylor.

We all need to respect the sport and our opponents.

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it is increasingly hard for me to remember the last time i felt anything for any result based on who it was achieved by (or not)... all i care about is good competition...

i don't even get worked up by own children's results anymore... i know if they have wrestled well or not no matter the end score... 

the only thing i get excited about is winning by less than honorable tactics... and i fully understand that what i see as less than honorable is wildly subjective on my part and can make me appear to be an a$$ at times... 

thankfully, i am totally ok with that... 

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4 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

This is the biggest issue for me. Yes, the Russians cheat. Are we sure we don’t also? When Mohammadian stood next to Snyder, 2 inches or so shorter but just as big, who looked like the doper? JO popped for something quite benign, as did Obe Blanc who then retired after a brief and unsuccessful comeback, but if they were Russian, how many would be suspecting the suddenly conditioned JO of PED use? (JO is one of my favorite contemporary wrestlers and I believe he is clean, by the way.) DT transformed his body just as much as any Russian I’ve seen, and he did it under the tutelage of a special strength coach who focuses on MMA athletes like the known doper TJ Dillashaw. Coincidence? 
 

I’m not accusing any of these guys of anything but if they were Russian, we all know what the conventional “wisdom” would be on them. I do think many Russians dope. The state-level doping program is now well-established. I am skeptical of any Russian wrestler because of the amount of evidence that has been established about the state-level support. But I also can’t say with confidence that Russian X is surely doing while American Y is surely not. It’s hard to give the benefit of the doubt but an automatic PED excuse for every American loss is a very blunt and misused instrument. 

Your biggest issue is a completely false equivalence. You list 4 Americans, 2 of whom as far as we know are completely clean and compare that to a state sponsored doping program where former world and Olympic champions are coming up dirty left and right?  Of course some might suspect JO of ped use, because he’s been suspended for it in the past!  It’s completely reasonable to be suspicious just like it’s more than reasonable to suspect every single Russian. In my mind they are guilty until proven innocent. 
 

I don’t feel this way about Iran btw, it seems on the other post related to this theme they believe we suspect Iranians of shady behavior if they beat our champions.  Nothing could be further from the truth. I and others I’ve read on here for years have great respect for Iranian wrestlers and I actually have tremendous respect for Russian wrestlers. I’ve just completely lost faith in their ability to win on their own merit and it does tick me off to think that little edge may have cost some of our guys who may of won otherwise.  Unfortunately they’ll never know. 

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13 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

Your biggest issue is a completely false equivalence. You list 4 Americans, 2 of whom as far as we know are completely clean and compare that to a state sponsored doping program where former world and Olympic champions are coming up dirty left and right?

Except that’s not at all what I said. The only thing that’s false is your understanding. I acknowledged that Russians being suspect is understandable. My point, which you obviously missed, is that not every single Russian has to be on PEDs just like not every American has to be clean when explaining a match a Russian won. The Americans I listed (some who did cheat) were examples of guys who would likely be presumed guilty if they were competing for Russia but generally escape any suspicion from the same Americans who would condemn them if they were Russian without really knowing. You say JO should be suspect, and yet, to my point, there was not a single post about the possibility of PED use when he turned in the best performance of his not young career ... rather, lots of posts of having finally found the right environment. Do I think JO is on something? Frankly, no. But Mohammadian (apparently Iran gets similar treatment) must be juicing again because he popped before according to some on here while JO completely escapes that criticism despite a similarly surprising performance. 

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Yeah because it’s shocking that people who root for Americans would be hesitant to criticize them on an American wrestling forum. Makes absolutely no sense. What does make sense is being suspicious every single time a Russian wrestler competes. Sad but true. 

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20 minutes ago, AnklePicker said:

Yeah because it’s shocking that people who root for Americans would be hesitant to criticize them on an American wrestling forum. Makes absolutely no sense. What does make sense is being suspicious every single time a Russian wrestler competes. Sad but true. 

Your post is an embodiment of the very point that some of us were making on here. That’s called bias. While understandable, i.e. “makes sense” as you put it, that doesn’t make it either right or objectively reasonable. I agree with you about the suspect Russians. But I also agree with your on American bias. 

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