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Disqualification Question

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If a wrestler is disqualified  from a tournament, all team points earned by that wrestler are forfeited.

I believe he also loses credit for any wins he had in the tournament (for career wins total).  Am I correct?  Where can I find an official rule on this situation?

State is PA

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11 minutes ago, Crash said:

If a wrestler is disqualified  from a tournament, all team points earned by that wrestler are forfeited.

I believe he also loses credit for any wins he had in the tournament (for career wins total).  Am I correct?  Where can I find an official rule on this situation?

State is PA

Plus a three point penalty. (Or minus)

 

I never heard of the other issue and don't see anything online implying that. I'll probably be with some others that would know later today so I'll check but it's hard to show a rule that doesn't exist.

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51 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

 

 

I never heard of the other issue and don't see anything online implying that. I'll probably be with some others that would know later today so I'll check but it's hard to show a rule that doesn't exist.

District seeding is based in part on the wrestlers official record.  If they recognize the bouts for seeding, I think they count in their official record.  If they don't count them for seeding, then I don't think they are credited to career win total.

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19 minutes ago, Crash said:

District seeding is based in part on the wrestlers official record.  If they recognize the bouts for seeding, I think they count in their official record.  If they don't count them for seeding, then I don't think they are credited to career win total.

Career record isn't actually official. I would agree with your statement that schools would likely not count if not counted for seeding but I don't know of any PIAA standards on career totals. Yes, the 100 wins are announced but they're only based on a coach coming and asking them to be announced. I've never heard anyone at the head tables question the accuracy of these claims. What district are you talking about, in case that matters to my question later today?

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Career record isn't actually official. I would agree with your statement that schools would likely not count if not counted for seeding but I don't know of any PIAA standards on career totals. Yes, the 100 wins are announced but they're only based on a coach coming and asking them to be announced. I've never heard anyone at the head tables question the accuracy of these claims. What district are you talking about, in case that matters to my question later today?
Agree, for a school to deviate from what PIAA recognizes for district seeding would seem odd.

District 2.

Thanks.

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I asked the head of district xi. He said it should all count including that loss. That doesn't speak to district 2 people. I asked the head of that district (I help with the power ranking for team sports in 2,3,4,11 although 2 doesn't use it for wrestling). He's passing the question on to the d2 wrestling chair.

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I asked the head of district xi. He said it should all count including that loss. That doesn't speak to district 2 people. I asked the head of that district (I help with the power ranking for team sports in 2,3,4,11 although 2 doesn't use it for wrestling). He's passing the question on to the d2 wrestling chair.
Thanks a lot. I look forward to hearing what he has to sah.

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need to be careful if any state looks to say that those matches don't count toward a win/loss record, as have seen coaches attempt to nullify a kid's loss in a tournament final on his record because post-match flagrant DQ got them booted.  in a semi-related matter, I still say that NFHS statement this year about forfeits not counting on an individual's loss record is counter-productive and encourages tournament ducking.

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From everything I have read and been told, it seems that the wins count -- as do any losses that occurred due to the DQ (possibly 3; winners bracket, losers bracket and placing match if applicable). 

This makes perfect sense to me.  Was just looking for confirmation. 

Thanks.

Edited by Crash

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12 minutes ago, Crash said:

From everything I have read and been told, it seems that the wins count -- as do any losses that occurred due to the DQ (possibly 3; winners bracket, losers bracket and placing match if applicable). 

This makes perfect sense to me.  Was just looking for confirmation. 

Thanks.

Would the later losses that would have resulted from forfeiting because of being DQ'd count though?   I would think not but the rule book doesn't seem totally clear (the match it happened in still would count as a loss though)

Edited by 1032004

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16 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Would the later losses that would have resulted from forfeiting because of being DQ'd count though?   I would think not but the rule book doesn't seem totally clear (the match it happened in still would count as a loss though)

Yes, they would -- up to 3 losses (winners, losers, placing).

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On 1/25/2020 at 11:36 AM, gimpeltf said:

Career record isn't actually official. I would agree with your statement that schools would likely not count if not counted for seeding but I don't know of any PIAA standards on career totals. Yes, the 100 wins are announced but they're only based on a coach coming and asking them to be announced. I've never heard anyone at the head tables question the accuracy of these claims. What district are you talking about, in case that matters to my question later today?

In district 4, I’ve heard them announce 100 wins for wrestlers that have not yet achieved the feat.  Coaches make mistakes.

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On 1/27/2020 at 8:59 AM, davenowa said:

need to be careful if any state looks to say that those matches don't count toward a win/loss record, as have seen coaches attempt to nullify a kid's loss in a tournament final on his record because post-match flagrant DQ got them booted.  in a semi-related matter, I still say that NFHS statement this year about forfeits not counting on an individual's loss record is counter-productive and encourages tournament ducking.

There is no loser in an individual forfeit. The person never took the mat.

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30 minutes ago, AHamilton said:

There is no loser in an individual forfeit. The person never took the mat.

Meaning what? In a dual meet, no one is specifically scheduled to wrestle. In a tournament, someone is. In college a med forfeit does eliminate the loss but there's no such thing in HS. I believe the decision to count or not count is state by state and likely dependent on the situation.

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1 minute ago, gimpeltf said:

Meaning what? In a dual meet, no one is specifically scheduled to wrestle. In a tournament, someone is. In college a med forfeit does eliminate the loss but there's no such thing in HS. I believe the decision to count or not count is state by state and likely dependent on the situation.

Interesting.

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14 minutes ago, davenowa said:

NFHS statement this year about forfeits not counting as losses has caused an increase in semi-finalists forfeiting to kids they know they can't beat, coming back to take 3rd and leaving the day with an "undefeated"* record.  needs to be addressed.  see situation 16  https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/wrestling-rules-interpretations-2019-20/

What does that statement mean? It says it doesn't count and defines it as when the opponent doesn't show. It doesn't say the opponent doesn't get a loss. Pretty awkward wording.

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while I disagree with the NFHS ruling, I don't think it is unclear, as it asks if a forfeit counts on a wrestler's record and the answer given is "no"....SITUATION 16: Does a forfeit count as a loss on a wrestler’s record? RULING: No, it is a forfeit when for any reason the opponent fails to appear for a match. (5-13).  

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