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spladle08

Joe Smith the purest example of burnout?

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On 1/26/2020 at 4:40 PM, TobusRex said:

Probably a fatherly lesson about finishing what you start.

Especially when it's the father who forced the son to start. 

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18 hours ago, sisi said:

Jeez. The more I learn about Smith, the more I'm disappointed. He blew up the team for JoJo when the kid didn't even want to wrestle. He derailed Newby's career for his brother Mark, another kid who looked disinterested on the mat.

In the interview, Newby gives Smith a pass bc Smith was a new coach. Newby is wrong. He hasn't changed at all

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2 hours ago, jackwebster said:

He's not a terrible coach. He's selfish and nepotism has hurt a couple of his teams.

I agree.  If he doesn't have kids then Joe doesn't exist and he never wins a wrestle off and the team doesn't get hurt.  

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30 minutes ago, boconnell said:

I agree.  If he doesn't have kids then Joe doesn't exist and he never wins a wrestle off and the team doesn't get hurt.  

Yeah, but why were they having the wrestle off in the first place? One kid did not want to wrestle.

Btw I'm not a Rodgers cheerleader. 

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1 hour ago, jackwebster said:

Yeah, but why were they having the wrestle off in the first place? One kid did not want to wrestle.

Btw I'm not a Rodgers cheerleader. 

I don’t think it’s fair to say he didn’t want to wrestle at all, I mean he beat McFadden and Trent Hidley that season and lost 1 point matches to mark hall, Lujan and Kutler and got the first points against marinelli and was beating him until he completely gassed....if he did all that while “not wanting to wrestle anymore” then joe smith was a hell of a lot more talented then he ever got credit for...

and as a chandler Rodgers fan I was upset he lost his spot in the lineup but it’s not like he was just benched ...he lost to a wrestle off (or a best of 3 I don’t remember) to a guy “who didn’t want to wrestle anymore”  so I don’t think you can put all the blame on Joe smith, when all Rodgers (2x AA himself) had to do was win to keep his spot 

 

it was clearly a coaching decision to have everyone bump down and in hindsight it was an awful decision so you can’t blame the athletes involved 

Edited by Antitroll2828

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6 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

if he did all that while “not wanting to wrestle anymore” then joe smith was a hell of a lot more talented then he ever got credit for...

He was. He was with Nolf in their first match

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Wrestle offs are part of life. If you can't win, well you  can't complain.  But hell yes you can.  When one guy doesn't go through the grind of the season, make weight more than a dozen times, wrestle the duals and do all the heavy lifting he has no right to challenge in late February.  It was ridiculous.

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3 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Wrestle offs are part of life. If you can't win, well you  can't complain.  But hell yes you can.  When one guy doesn't go through the grind of the season, make weight more than a dozen times, wrestle the duals and do all the heavy lifting he has no right to challenge in late February.  It was ridiculous.

You're talking about the year Joe wrestled 29 matches and Rogers wrestled 20?  That's the year where Joe didn't do anything all season and Rogers did?  The same year where Joe wrestled up at 174 to help fill in when Weigel got hurt.  You're talking about being there for duals like Joe was for Princeton, Rutgers, WV, Pitt, ISU, Northern Iowa, Lehigh, and Mizzou?  Then Weigel unexpectedly came back from injury to finish his career, and Geer and Jacobe Smith got to go back down to their actual weight classes, pushing Joe down to a wrestle off.  That's the year where it was unfair to have a wrestle off?  Where they made Joe win two matches in a row?

You've created a whole whiny narrative that explains why the wrestle off was unfair.  The only problem is your story doesn't match what actually happened.

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16 hours ago, boconnell said:

You're talking about the year Joe wrestled 29 matches and Rogers wrestled 20?  That's the year where Joe didn't do anything all season and Rogers did?  The same year where Joe wrestled up at 174 to help fill in when Weigel got hurt.  You're talking about being there for duals like Joe was for Princeton, Rutgers, WV, Pitt, ISU, Northern Iowa, Lehigh, and Mizzou?  Then Weigel unexpectedly came back from injury to finish his career, and Geer and Jacobe Smith got to go back down to their actual weight classes, pushing Joe down to a wrestle off.  That's the year where it was unfair to have a wrestle off?  Where they made Joe win two matches in a row?

You've created a whole whiny narrative that explains why the wrestle off was unfair.  The only problem is your story doesn't match what actually happened.

He's partly correct...Joe could not make 165 at the beginning of the season - he was wrestling 174 because that is where  he was. The plan was for him to descent down at the end of the season to challenge and both wrestlers  were aware of the plan...at least according to the John Smith interview, but of course he could be wrong. 

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1 hour ago, Idaho said:

He's partly correct...Joe could not make 165 at the beginning of the season - he was wrestling 174 because that is where  he was. The plan was for him to descent down at the end of the season to challenge and both wrestlers  were aware of the plan...at least according to the John Smith interview, but of course he could be wrong. 

He wasn't even partly correct.

If he had said it was unfair for John to let Joe challenge after being up a weight all year, then there's a great argument for that.  Of course that might lead to Jacobe Smith or Geer losing their spot, but that's an argument that can be made.  If he had said Joe was in terrible shape and John should have overruled both wrestle off results, there's an argument for that. 

There's lots of great arguments to remove Joe from that lineup, but the idea that Joe didn't go through the season and wasn't there for the team in duals isn't one of them.  

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18 minutes ago, boconnell said:

He wasn't even partly correct.

If he had said it was unfair for John to let Joe challenge after being up a weight all year, then there's a great argument for that.  Of course that might lead to Jacobe Smith or Geer losing their spot, but that's an argument that can be made.  If he had said Joe was in terrible shape and John should have overruled both wrestle off results, there's an argument for that. 

There's lots of great arguments to remove Joe from that lineup, but the idea that Joe didn't go through the season and wasn't there for the team in duals isn't one of them.  

I wouldn't disagree that he didn't go through the season - he won 20 or more matches if I remember. The weight issue is what I  am referring to...."...make weight more than a dozen times." He didn't have to make the weight at 165 during the season because he couldn't...he didn't have to prove he could compete at the scratch weight because he couldn't. If I remember correctly he  didn't even have to make scratch for the wrestle off. He beat Rodgers fair and square  and then had to suck down to get to 165 to wrestle a spot that Rodgers had looked decent at all season and qualified.  Of course  the rest of is history. IMO,  John made it too easy for Joe to even have the opportunity to go 165. 

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4 hours ago, Idaho said:

I wouldn't disagree that he didn't go through the season - he won 20 or more matches if I remember. The weight issue is what I  am referring to...."...make weight more than a dozen times." He didn't have to make the weight at 165 during the season because he couldn't...he didn't have to prove he could compete at the scratch weight because he couldn't. If I remember correctly he  didn't even have to make scratch for the wrestle off. He beat Rodgers fair and square  and then had to suck down to get to 165 to wrestle a spot that Rodgers had looked decent at all season and qualified.  Of course  the rest of is history. IMO,  John made it too easy for Joe to even have the opportunity to go 165. 

He made weight at 174 where the team needed him.  Wiegel was already hurt when Joe got healthy so he wrestled up like Jacobe Smith and Geer.  He then made weight for the wrestle off.  They could have made Joe wrestle off 174 and Jacobe Smith likely loses his spot instead.  Or perhaps Geer if Jacobe goes up.  Joe was going to wrestle off and beat a guy who cared more.  That sucks.  But there was no good reason to keep him from wrestling off, and not much of a reason to keep him from going 165.  If Joe wasn't the coach's kid nobody would have cared that someone lost their spot to a more talented but less committed teammate.  

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On 1/26/2020 at 4:36 PM, spladle08 said:

 

He just doesnt have it, and I cant get on the injury wagon.

Seems like a great example of an "I don't care anymore" athlete.

 

Gfeller will always "have it" but I think he struggles with the everyday "student athlete" tasks....

 

2 of my favorite Cowboys but sad either way.

 

purest example of imposing a cliche storyline onto a complex real world situation?

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On 8/6/2021 at 1:20 PM, fudge_tunnel said:

Running camps.  Interesting, especially for someone who “didn’t want to wrestle”

Yes. Because running camps for extra cash is the same as wrestling D1

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On 8/6/2021 at 3:14 PM, boconnell said:

He made weight at 174 where the team needed him.  Wiegel was already hurt when Joe got healthy so he wrestled up like Jacobe Smith and Geer.  He then made weight for the wrestle off.  They could have made Joe wrestle off 174 and Jacobe Smith likely loses his spot instead.  Or perhaps Geer if Jacobe goes up.  Joe was going to wrestle off and beat a guy who cared more.  That sucks.  But there was no good reason to keep him from wrestling off, and not much of a reason to keep him from going 165.  If Joe wasn't the coach's kid nobody would have cared that someone lost their spot to a more talented but less committed teammate.  

Do you think Joe beats Jacobe if they wrestled off for the 174 spot that year?

If that pushed Jacobe back to 184, do you think Jacobe beats Geer in a wrestle off?

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Completely ripping both Smiths is too easy.  Joe seemed to display some ambivalence about the incredibly grueling five year grind that is college wrestling that showed in his weight management and gassing out. Plus his dad was the coach. That doesn't mean there's a direct line to Point B being the young man doesn't care and the coach is rigging the system by nepotism.  It means it's an imperfect complex situation, not that Joe didn't care.  He's not the first AA to stagnate as his career went on.  

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4 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

Do you think Joe beats Jacobe if they wrestled off for the 174 spot that year?

If that pushed Jacobe back to 184, do you think Jacobe beats Geer in a wrestle off?

Joe would’ve beat Jacobe and jacobe probably beats Geer, and Geer had just come in as a transfer that year and Smith promised him he d wrestle 184 and no way Geer beats Wiegal at 197 ...and they scenario puts smith in a bad spot

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